S3E7: Chelsey Brooke Cole - Trust Your Intuition Not the Narcissist

Chelsey Brooke Cole comes on the show today to talk about narcissistic relationships. We talk about how to recognize them and what you can do to start healing.

Chelsey Brooke Cole is a licensed psychotherapist specializing in narcissistic abuse and helping introverts/empaths thrive. Chelsey has spoken at internationally recognized universities and counseling conferences on these topics, as well as on emotional intelligence and healthy relationships. Chelsey is also a Certified Partner Trauma Therapist, Registered Play Therapist, Level 1 Certified Gottman Method Couples Therapist, and board member of the Yow Foundation Inc. Chelsey is currently writing a book on understanding and healing from narcissistic abuse.

Social media and contact information: Facebook, IG, & LinkedIn - @ChelseyBrookeCole Twitter - @ChelseyBCole Website: www.ChelseyBrookeCole.com Get Chelsey's bi-monthly newsletter on understanding and healing from narcissistic abuse - www.ChelseyBrookeCole.com/Newsletter

Podcast Transcript

[00:00:00] Damaged Parents: Welcome back to Relatively Damaged by Damaged parents. Today we have Chelsey Brooke Cole with us. She is a licensed psychotherapist specializing in narcissistic abuse and helping introverts and empaths thrive. Chelsey has spoken at internationally recognized universities and counseling conferences on these topics as well as on emotional intelligence and healthy relationships.

[00:00:23] She is a certified partner trauma therapist, registered play therapist, level one certified Gottman Methods couple therapist and a board member of the Yow Foundation Incorporated. Chelsey's currently writing her book on understanding and healing from narcissistic abuse.

[00:00:39] Today's topic include sensitive material, which may not be appropriate for children. This podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended as advice. The opinions expressed here are strictly those of the person who gave them.

[00:00:54] I am so glad to have you on the show today.

[00:00:56] You have no idea

[00:00:57] Chelsea Brooke Cole: Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here.

[00:01:00] Damaged Parents: And I'm glad that you're glad to be here to talk about a topic, in this struggle, right? Because you had found yourself in a situation with toxic people, and did you find yourself in that situation before your schooling, during your schooling, after What happened for you? Because I think anybody getting into psychotherapy has curiosity about how people work.

[00:01:23] Chelsea Brooke Cole: Yes, definitely. So I was one of those strange children who knew what they wanted to do from the time they were like eight. I was always interested in understanding people, why they do what they do, why we think, feel, and act, just all the psychology. My light reading was. Dream psychology and self-help books like when I was an adolescent.

[00:01:45] So I've always been interested in that aspect. And then looking back now, having an understanding of, the kinds of things I went through as a child. I realized that a lot of what I was experiencing was narcissistic abuse. And I just didn't have a name for it at the time. I often describe my childhood.

[00:02:04] My, my mom is actually an empath, an introvert, super caring, the most compassionate person you'll ever meet. My dad was more cold, callous emotionally neglectful is all I, the words that I had for it growing up. Now, looking back, I understand there were some narcissistic tendencies there, so a lot of what I was experiencing.

[00:02:24] Was narcissistic abuse. And then when I got into some relationships, I've had narcissists now looking at it in relationships at work, just all kinds of different places. So it would just kind of became this natural culmination of, I'm already a psychotherapist. This is something I'm experiencing, I'm seeing it in my clients, and now it's just basically all I do, it's my specialty.

[00:02:47] Damaged Parents: Now a question that came to mind as you were talking is, what is the percentage, or do you even know what the percentage of narcissist you know, like how many out of 10, people have narcissistic tendencies?

[00:02:59] Chelsea Brooke Cole: Yeah, so that's a great question. It's so, narcissism is on a spectrum. So we go, you know, you can go from like the, just the kind of annoying, entitled narcissist, but you know, they're not, they're great to have at a dinner party, but not really someone that's, You really gonna be there for you when you have something difficult going on all the way to like malignant uh, more like psychopathic kind of feeling narcissist.

[00:03:23] So it's definitely a wide spectrum, but as far as the percentage of the population that has what we would consider to be enough narcissistic traits that they're causing difficulty for in themselves and the people around them I would say anywhere from Five to 10% of the population and up to like, I would say 30% have at least some narcissistic traits that are going to be difficult.

[00:03:48] Damaged Parents: now in what you were talking about narcissism, you said all the way to the psycho, psychopathic or psychopathy, having those types of traits, right? So what does that mean or what does that look like? If you could describe someone with, maybe at the lower end of what we could, would consider the lower end, and then someone with the, the psychopathy going on.

[00:04:11] Chelsea Brooke Cole: Right. So psychopath is that person that you see who has, seems to have no remorse, no shame. they have a different kind of nervous system. So, whereas most of us. We'll have a, like if we're driving and we see the cop cars or the cop lights flashing in the background, we kind of have that, ooh, like jolt the like, you know, nervous system reaction, even if we're not doing anything wrong.

[00:04:34] A psychopath is just cool, calm, collect. They have no really nervous system response to threatening or dangerous or possibly harmful situations. So they're kind of the people you meet and you're like, I am uncomfortable with this person, but they can be very charming, but they also give off that kind of coldness that makes you wonder how far they would go if you pushed them in the wrong direction or if they had something against you.

[00:04:58] I. On the opposite end is more what we might call like a benign narcissist. So someone who's very entitled, grandiose, maybe they talk about themselves a lot, but they're not really super vindictive. They're not out, to get people. They're not necessarily super vengeful or, or planning to, you know, get people back.

[00:05:19] They're just kind of more entitled into themselves. Arrogant, kind of the stereotypical narcissist that you might think of.

[00:05:26] Damaged Parents: Now speaking of those two, two very ends of the spectrum, , do they experience emotion?

[00:05:32] Chelsea Brooke Cole: Mm-hmm.

[00:05:33] Damaged Parents: the, does the psychopath experience emotion and does, I mean, I'm thinking the lower end of the spectrum, what we're talking about, like the the person who's gonna always talk about themselves or whatever definitely does.

[00:05:45] But how does that interplay into a relationship or, and how does that interplay Not, but, and

[00:05:51] Chelsea Brooke Cole: Right. Yeah. So it's, it's interesting because a lot of people think when narcissists are so selfish, they just don't have any feelings. And really what we mean is they don't have feelings for other people. So they have a lot of emotion. Like actually they're very internally reactive, like emotional reactivity is actually a trait um, within narcissism.

[00:06:11] So narcissists in general actually have a lot of emotion. It's just about themselves. So they have this world view that everything is happening to, for or against them. And obviously as you can see in relationships, this would be very damaging. They are very difficult to have relationships with because the world kind of revolves around them, you know, And healthy relationships.

[00:06:34] You have two people who are helping each other who are cooperating, collaborating, empathizing like they're parallel to each other, whereas a narcissist is like a.in the middle and the world and everyone in it revolves around them. So you always feel like you are having to watch what you say, what you do.

[00:06:52] You never know how they're gonna respond or react to things. And that's how people kind of get sucked into these relationships and end up staying because you stop even thinking, feeling for. You just start walking on eggshells, trying to make sure everything's okay for this person, because that's the kind of world that they have created.

[00:07:10] And if you're in it, you have to kind of walk on eggshells in order to survive at times in that kind of environment.

[00:07:17] Damaged Parents: Right. So I think what I'm hearing you say about from like the narcissist perspective, if I'm trying to figure out what it might be like to, to be in those shoes, then anything anyone does outside of me, that impacts me in whatever way was done purposefully then to hurt me. And not that, that other person's just human and they're doing something because they need to do it.

[00:07:41] Chelsea Brooke Cole: Right. Yeah. That entitled mentality always makes them think that things are happening too, for or against them. So even if someone else is just, you know, maybe having a bad day, or even if something really good has happened, the narcissist will take that. To heart as if something is, you're saying they're not good enough because you're having a great day, then they become jealous of your accomplishments.

[00:08:06] So you get to this point where you don't share your highs, your lows, you can't share anything with them because they're taking it all and twisting it and making it about them.

[00:08:15] Damaged Parents: Okay, so a narcissist would also be devastated and maybe have a lot of tears about how they've been wronged in that type of a situation, even though it had nothing to do with them.

[00:08:25] Chelsea Brooke Cole: Right. They can be obsessive. Seeking revenge or feeling like people are out to get them. They tend to have this mentality of nothing ever goes right for me, The world's not fair to me. People are out to get me at least when things aren't going well in their world. Now that's more of the victimized Vulnerable side of a narcissist. The more grandiose side comes out when things are going well, like if they got the promotion at work, if they're making a lot of money, if they got the, you know, to date the partner or marry the person that they wanted to, that makes them look good, then you'll see that grandiose side coming out where they're completely in their own world and, Happy and they don't really wanna be like dragged down, if you will, by your issues.

[00:09:09] And that's where the lack of empathy comes in. So , it's a lose loses. There's no way you can ever have a real open, empathetic, meaningful conversation.

[00:09:18] Damaged Parents: Mm, mm-hmm. . Well, I'm just thinking too, even if, so, if the narcissist does something to injure someone else , and then that makes them look bad, somehow, they're probably gonna spin it to the other person. Did, something. Because otherwise they would've never done that. They never would've done what they chose to do because of course that person was just horrible.

[00:09:43] Even if that wasn't what happened.

[00:09:44] Chelsea Brooke Cole: Yes, you bring up such a good point. I often explain it to people, like healthy people can look in a mirror and see their self reflection and we can look at ourselves honestly and think, you know, This was a good choice. This wasn't a good choice. I need to improve this, and that's okay. We can, we can handle that and that's what helps us grow.

[00:10:03] Narcissists cannot look in the proverbial mirror because they can't deal with any shame or guilt associated with what they've done. So whenever they are confronted with, That may be a bad choice that they've made or a difficult situation. It's like they can't see themselves. It's like they look in a mirror and see nothing.

[00:10:23] They only ever see everyone else around them. They only see what you did. And so that goes back to why they can't really take accountability either because they don't see their part, they don't see a two-way interaction. They see what you did to me, and then what I did to you is completely, irrelevant.

[00:10:39] Damaged Parents: Right. That sounds really hard, like a

[00:10:42] Chelsea Brooke Cole: Yeah,

[00:10:43] Damaged Parents: it's like almost they have to like they're, they have to be the victim.

[00:10:47] Chelsea Brooke Cole: they have to be the victim or they have to succeed there is no in between. And so it's an interesting dichotomy. There's even different types of narcissists. The grandiose narcissist is the one we're more familiar with, the entitled arrogant look at me. Also kind of charming though, can come across very charismatic.

[00:11:06] Then we have the vulnerable type of narcissist that also has the entitlement, but it's more of like, why doesn't the world see how great I am versus the grandiose narcissist thinks world? Look how great I am. So they both have the entitlement. But the way that they try to manipulate people is different.

[00:11:29] The vulnerable is more sullen withdrawn. They often seem depressed at first. And so that's how they end up drawing people into the relationship because you think, Oh, this person, they're just down on their look. Things haven't gone well for them. I can help them like, Sure, you know, I can help you out. Here's some, here's some money.

[00:11:45] Or Let me introduce you to this person. Let me help you. And before you know, You're completely invested in this person. But the thing is it never gets better. They always just have another way you can help them, Another problem that they need a solution to. And so that's where why people end up feeling like they're never good enough or it's never enough in a narcissistic relationship because nothing is enough for a narc.

[00:12:09] Damaged Parents: So I think what, what you're saying is if, if, when people might become afraid to give after giving to a narcissist, because when giving to a narcissist, it's not enough. And they're not, perhaps they're not grateful or they don't, Yeah, not grateful, I think is the right word, You know, Cause I'm trying to think of, you know, there are poor people in this world, or, or people who, who do need help and assistance in reality.

[00:12:37] And that's not to say that a narcissistic person wouldn't, but I would see where it would be hard. Okay, How do I know? Am I giving to a narcissist or am I giving to someone who's really, genuinely going to appreciate what I'm giving to them? You see what I'm saying?

[00:12:52] Chelsea Brooke Cole: Yes, Yes. And that's where boundaries are so important. And it can seem difficult to differentiate, but I often explain it like when you give to a narcissist or just even a toxic person, then there will always be more for you to give. You'll feel this like internal pull, almost like a feeling sorry for them.

[00:13:11] Like, Oh, I need to help them. But it never gets better. Like that person never takes what you give them and. Actually grows themselves, so you feel always pulled along versus giving to a healthy person who's truly just in a difficult situation, which any of us could be in. Then they take that and they grow, and then they also show appreciation to you and then they give back, and it's not this constant.

[00:13:37] You feel like you're just giving into a black hole. That's, that's kind of how it feels with a narcissist or someone who's just using you versus a healthy person. When you give, it actually makes a difference, and there's an end to it. There's a point at which, okay, I've helped, and it's more of a balance.

[00:13:54] Now, this person might help you when you're down and you help them, and so you don't feel like you're constantly being dragged down or just giving and giving and giving. Healthy people. It, it feels more balanced when you give.

[00:14:07] Damaged Parents: Yeah. And, and this actually is a big, just delving into this, talking about topic, excuse me, about giving and receiving and, and all of that between. And you know, I think there also is, you know, especially like in my community of the disability community, People are afraid to support and give. and I don't know if that ha how much that has to do with the narcissistic, you know, if they, if, if people have experienced that.

[00:14:34] But it's, there's been, like, for me, a, a conversation about the difference between enabling and support. What that might look like so that someone can, because I think all of us struggle in different ways, but What would you say in the, in with the dynamic of people with disabilities or supporting people who are struggling versus the narcissist, Right?

[00:14:56] Like how do

[00:14:57] Chelsea Brooke Cole: Mm-hmm.

[00:14:58] Damaged Parents: It's really hard to differentiate and, even I think in my own family, the struggle with, well, I don't wanna enable you, but I you can't do it on your own either. So what, how, how do people reconcile that?

[00:15:10] Chelsea Brooke Cole: Right. Yeah, definitely. Cuz like you said, we can all be at a point where maybe you just need some help. And I'm glad you brought up the point about enabling, cuz that's definitely a big thing that happens. Again, I, I think it goes back to, imagine within, you know, anyone who might need help or disabilities, There's a point at which you know you are helping and that person is also, you see ways that they're taking personal responsibility or doing what they can as well, so, With a narcissist, you'll see them not taking personal responsibility, not taking accountability, not doing anything for themselves, and then blaming you when things go wrong, as if it was all your fault.

[00:15:47] And there's a victim kind of mentality there versus healthy people who genuinely just need some support that you see them taking steps to do things. You know, you see them taking personal responsibility. You see them taking accountability and doing everything. they can, and the reality is there's just some things we all need help with.

[00:16:05] So I would say look for a pattern of do they help themselves where they can, or do they also just not even do the things that they can do? I think that that would be a big differentiation.

[00:16:18] Damaged Parents: Right. Okay. I, I think I understand, for instance, like I recognize I can have conversations. So I'm on here trying to have conversations and then in order to finish out like the podcast, I've got a caregiver who helps come in and, and edit and do things like that. Which would, which is that support, which allows me to give back because I think, like my argument is,

[00:16:41] Most people with disabilities don't really wanna sit and collect money and, and not give back to society. But there's this misconception of, Well, if I help, I'm enabling. And if I'm enabling, then I'm hurting. and then they, you know, like it just the downward spiral. Spiral. And I think it's really interesting that that came up during a conversation about narcissism, toxic behavior.

[00:17:06] Chelsea Brooke Cole: Yeah, well, I can see in your world how that's relevant and certainly in the narcissistic world as well. And from my perspective, what I usually see is people getting confused on what is healthy giving versus enabling too. And so they get sucked into the narcissistic relationships are continuing that because they think that ever setting a boundary, Is being selfish or harmful, when in reality we have to differentiate between boundaries are okay.

[00:17:37] Everyone should have boundaries. If you are in a relationship where you feel like, for instance, I, I'll have a, I have a client who is a caregiver for her mom. Her mom is, is elderly, and you know, so obviously there's a lot of things her mother struggles to do, she can't do for herself. However, her mom has some narcissistic tendencies, which makes it more difficult because she is not willing to collaborate or cooperate at all.

[00:18:00] So her daughter might say, Hey, I can help you with this, but I have these responsibilities also today. That's not okay. Mom wants it when she wants it, how she wants it her way, and she guilts her daughter if she doesn't do it. So that's an example of, you know, it's not. Disability or, or not being able to do for herself.

[00:18:18] That's the narcissism piece that's coming in. So I think that's, that's worth noting that difference.

[00:18:23] Damaged Parents: Yeah, I think that's, that's really important too, to see, okay, well am I being as, as far as a person with a disability, am I being realistic? Do I need this right this minute? Or you know, what do they need to do? And I can totally also see someone with a disability getting so frustrated about not having their needs met, needs met, I said that right?

[00:18:46] Needs met. That, that they would start to use that as a tool to try and get needs met. Which, so it can be really, I, I think a dynamic in of. it could just turn toxic super fast, especially when there's two people that aren't able to communicate, about what their needs really are. Maybe is what I'm thinking.

[00:19:08] I don't know. I'm just trying to think. Gosh, that's, you know, that's really hard.

[00:19:13] Chelsea Brooke Cole: Yeah, a big emotion that's always there in narcissistic relationships is guilt. So when you're truly helping someone, it shouldn't evoke a sense of guilt or of not being enough. Like it should be a positive where you're both doing your part and you're both helping where you can, doing whatever you can.

[00:19:31] But in a narcissistic relationship, there's a sense of it's never enough. It's never quite right. It's never the way I wanted it. And if you veer from that at all, like if you ever have your own need or responsibility or something else you have to do, and it interferes with what that narcissist wants you to do, then.

[00:19:49] You are shamed or ridiculed or criticized, you know, how could you let this happen? Don't you love me? I'm getting older. Why would you, you know, how could you do this to me? All of those kind of guilty statements. And so there's a sense of guilt always in narcissistic relationships and that's kind of our feedback system to know, okay, something is off here because healthy people, you're right, we'll have open communication.

[00:20:17] They will say, Hey, I wanna help you. I've got this to do. I think I can, you know, come by this evening. Not a problem. You know, generally, and most people will be able to, healthy people will be able to have that conversation. There's no need for guilt. You know, you're meeting their needs, you're collaborating, you're working it out with a narcissist.

[00:20:33] There's no healthy communication. Healthy communication doesn't work with toxic people, so you're not allowed to have your own expectations or your own needs or your own responsibilities. It needs to be a, It kind of revolves around the narcissist.

[00:20:49] Damaged Parents: So something I might wanna look for then is, can I, am I able to collaborate with these people or is it just their way or the highway type feeling?

[00:20:57] Chelsea Brooke Cole: Yeah, very much. Because remember, narcissists lack empathy. They have very minimal to no empathy, so they don't really care what you have going on. They don't really even. Appreciate on a, like how a healthy person would, They don't necessarily appreciate your help. They expect your help. And so that's the entitlement piece too.

[00:21:18] Damaged Parents: Okay, so I might also not feel like I could say no to them.

[00:21:22] Chelsea Brooke Cole: absolutely. You don't, Yeah, just saying no and say what I mean. Yeah. That's what I mean by setting a boundary. It's never okay in a narcissistic relationship, like just saying, I can do it, but not at that time. That's probably gonna be a problem, cuz that's not how the narcissist wanted it done. Or just saying, No, I'm not able to do that, but here, let me help you find someone else that can, Nope, they wanted you to do it.

[00:21:44] And that goes back to the control piece. So then you see, oh, so it's not actually about getting this need met or having this thing done for you. It's, you want me there? You want it done this way? Only like they're very rigid and inflexible. So there. There's no push and pull. It's all just going their way.

[00:22:03] Damaged Parents: Mm. That's so hard to just even think of living in. And I've been around, I, I think I've been around a psychopath, , but I don't think we can go into this world and not be around narcissist. So I think I'm really grateful that we're talking about, Okay, what does that healthy communication look like?

[00:22:23] Okay, I can collabo. I can say no. And I think too, sometimes if we grow up in that situation where there's a narcissist, we might learn that. I mean, As people, we might learn anyone that, and we won't want to allow other people that room to say no, because we didn't learn that that was okay. Right.

[00:22:43] Or am I wrong on that?

[00:22:44] Chelsea Brooke Cole: Sometimes, certainly if you're raised in a narcissistic household, then those narcissistic behaviors are modeled, and so we can pick up on some of that. What I see more often happening, Is that those children grow up to be anxious adults, and they overthink and they overgive and they never quite feel enough, and they become super compassionate, more people pleasing and they actually have to learn.

[00:23:11] It's okay to say no because that narcissistic parent, nothing is ever enough. They treat their children, you know, as extensions of themselves. So they want their children to do what they want, how they want, when they want. So a lot of kids growing up, adult children, if they've been raised in that household, will question themselves.

[00:23:29] Second guess themselves, have a lot of self doubt, self-criticism, anxiety, difficulty making decisions. Difficulty setting boundaries. So it's more likely that that is what will.

[00:23:40] Damaged Parents: At any point when they're learning from going from like the people pleasing and they're trying to learn boundaries, do they ever flip flop to the other end of the spectrum and then come back and kind of find their way the middle ground, I guess is what I'm gonna call it?

[00:23:55] Chelsea Brooke Cole: Mm. I I think that's, Do you mean like they flip from being empathetic to kind of narcissistic and then. Try to figure out a healthy balance. Yeah, I think that's possible. But again, more often I see people either going and having no boundaries and they become like super people pleasers or they certainly, there are those who grow up narcissistic because they have that.

[00:24:22] Modeled For sure. So it really just depends on our, kind of our personality, Our predisposition. Narcissists are typically born. You're not born narcissistic. You can be born with a predisposition to have a difficult temperament or to be disagreeable, and that kind of sets up. if you are now raised in a toxic or narcissistic environment that kind of predisposes you to maybe be more likely to go that way, but a lot of impasse people please use, those kinds of people are born very agreeable, and so they just try really hard to be good enough all their lives, and it takes some time.

[00:24:58] It usually takes personal development, therapy, those kinds of things to really help them learn. It's okay to set boundaries. It's okay to say no, and you don't have to please everyone to be.

[00:25:07] Damaged Parents: Yeah. And it sounds like everyone can learn. I'm gonna put an exception with the psychopath cuz I don't think they have the empathy to get there. But it sounds like a narcissist can learn and a people pleaser can like everyone. Has the potential to learn here if they can have that experience. If they experience something tough enough, maybe a crisis of, of iden, maybe identity or something like that where they can learn to behave differently.

[00:25:34] Chelsea Brooke Cole: Yeah, I find a lot of the people who are more people pleasers want to learn. It's very uncomfortable to be a people pleaser. You know, You never feel, you're always, you feel like you're at the mercy of other people's expectations. So I often find that they want help narcissists are, like I said, very rigid, very, it's in a very rigid and inflexible personality style, and usually the narcis.

[00:25:57] Don't think there's a problem cuz life works for them. So it's very, very rare. Would not count on it. That narcissists change once, that constitution of not having a narcissistic personality style is there. It is very rare that they would ever change. And you're not gonna see a narcissist go from highly narcissistic to highly empathetic.

[00:26:18] They might.

[00:26:19] Be able to, if with, multi-week therapy and real dedication, they might be able to show up on time or maybe tell the truth , whereas they would lie tell the truth in some instances. But overall they're still going to be narcissistic.

[00:26:37] Damaged Parents: So it really comes down to the only person that can change is us. And if we're the people pleaser, then we know we can change. And the only way that. Might, is gonna change the relationship is by learning how to have healthy boundaries and learning how to recognize even if we are in a situation with a narcissist, and then the narcissists can choose to change or not.

[00:27:00] Depending on, on a, the, like a people pleasing type of person's personality, right? Like if they, if the people pleaser sets a boundary and the narcissist doesn't like it, they're either gonna leave or they're gonna adjust to it, right?

[00:27:13] Chelsea Brooke Cole: Narcissists do not adjust. So what will probably happen is if you start setting a boundary, then the narcissists will rage, guilt, blame you, it'll get worse, or. They will ultimately leave, they'll kind of discard you and decide, Okay, you're no longer manipulable. This isn't working for me, so I'm out. But regardless of what the narcissist does, the healthiest thing for anyone to do in that situation is to learn boundaries, to not defend.

[00:27:41] Don't engage, don't explain, don't personalize and really do the healing work. And, if you decide to stay in a narcissistic relationship, it's really important to do your own healing work and to have realistic expectations for what you can expect in that relationship.

[00:27:55] And if you decide to leave, it's still important to do your healing work and to prepare for the difficulty that it is to leave that relationship because narcissists do not like to be left.

[00:28:05] Damaged Parents: Right. And they'll probably, if there's a family dynamic or anything like that, they will probably gossip and, and create a situation that is negative toward the person who is setting boundaries and things like that.

[00:28:16] Chelsea Brooke Cole: Exactly. They're master manipulators. They will triangulate, they will find a way to, Yeah. If you ever leave the relationship and the narcissist didn't want you to, then there will be a smear campaign. There will be an attempt to ruin your character or credibility.

[00:28:34] Damaged Parents: Mm. So what would be just real fast that like three things you would say to a people pleaser? You've given some tools already, but three things. Like right now you're in a relationship with a narcissist. Do this.

[00:28:47] Chelsea Brooke Cole: Yeah. Well, the first thing you have to do is, is raise your awareness not only about the relationship you're in and what a narcissist is, but what narcissistic abuse looks like. The second thing would be to get into a therapy or coaching or really dive into and commit to personal development to. Know how to heal from that narcissistic abuse and to learn what, how did you get in this relationship in the first place?

[00:29:10] And not in a judgmental way, but in a curious way. Like what is it about me that now I've found myself in this narcissistic relationship? Maybe you grew up in a narcissistic household. Maybe you're just a people pleaser and you believe in second chances and. You know, giving people the benefit of the doubt.

[00:29:27] Whatever it is you need to learn what it is about you that is, now you know that you're in this situation. And then the third thing is to really commit to the healing work of setting boundaries, feeling more empowered and deciding if you're gonna stay, what that will look like. And then if you decide to leave what that will look like and making a plan.

[00:29:48] Damaged Parents: Hm. I love it. Thank you so much, Chelsey, for coming on the show.

[00:29:53] Chelsea Brooke Cole: Yes. I'm so glad we could talk

[00:29:54] Damaged Parents: Oh, for sure. You can find Chelsey https://Chelseybrookecole.com. And if you're really interested, she's got a biweekly newsletter that will help give you tools and support when healing from narcissistic abuse. Again, thank you so much for coming on the show.

[00:30:10] Chelsea Brooke Cole: Yes, thank you so much.

[00:30:12] Damaged Parents: Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Relatively Damaged by Damaged Parents. We really enjoyed talking to Chelsey about how to recognize a narcissist. We especially liked when she spoke about how to heal. To unite with other damaged people, connect with us on Instagram look for damaged parents. We'll be here next week. Still Relatively Damaged. See you then.