S2E37: How to Have a Little Faith
Victoria MacGregor - I'm 62, retired and a Canaussie. Meaning Canadian by birth and Australian by choice. After my working life, which covered everything from a small business owner to executive assistant, office management and event coordination, I've settled into the next chapter, being creative and sharing my love of family history with others. I'm not an extraordinary person, in fact I'd say I'm really just an ordinary person who's lucky to have some extraordinary experiences. My partner and I have travelled the world and Australia.
Social media and contact information:
Instagram: @victoriaspress
Twitter: @VictoriasPress1
email: victoria@victoriaspress.com
Podcast transcript
[00:00:00] Damaged Parents: Welcome back to the Relatively Damaged podcast by Damaged Parents where history of loving, creative giving people come to learn. Maybe just, maybe we're all a little bit damaged. Someone once told me it's safe to assume 50% of the people I meet are struggling and feel wounded in some way. I would venture to say it's closer to 100%.
Every one of us is either currently struggling or has struggled with something that made us feel less than like we aren't good enough. We aren't capable. We are relatively damaged. And that's what we're here to talk about. In my ongoing investigation of the damaged self, I want to better understand how others view their own challenges. Maybe it's not so much about the damage.
Maybe it's about our perception and how we deal with it. There is a deep commitment to becoming who we are meant to be. How do you do that? How do you find balance after a damaging experience? My hero is the damaged person. The one who faces seemingly insurmountable odds to come out on the other side, whole.
Those who stare directly into the face of adversity with unyielding persistence to discover their purpose. These are the people who inspire me to be more fully me. Not in spite of my trials, but because of them. Let's hear from another hero.
Today's topic includes sensitive material, which may not be appropriate for children. This podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended as advice. The opinions expressed here for strictly those of the person who gave them.
Today, we're going to talk with Victoria MacGregor. She has many roles in her life. Sister mother partner, cousin ex-wife grandmother, stepmother, step grandparents, friend, colleague, and more. We'll talk about how she has had many struggles throughout her life, including a handicapped child, divorce and estrangement and how she has found health and healing let's talk
Welcome back to Relatively Damaged by Damaged Parents. Today, we have Victoria MacGregor with us. She is 62. She's a retired. I'm going to see if I can say this right. Canaussie which means Canadian by birth and Australian by choice. Did I say it right though?
[00:02:27] Victoria MacGregor: Yes.
[00:02:28] Damaged Parents: after her working life, which covered everything from small business owner to executive assistant office management event coordination, she settled into the new chapter of her life being creative.
And sharing her love of family history with others. She's not an extraordinary person that she'd say she's just an ordinary person. Who's lucky to have some extraordinary experiences. You can find her at https://Victoriaspress.com and on Instagram and Twitter, Victoria. Welcome to the show.
[00:03:02] Victoria MacGregor: Thanks, Angela. That was very nice. Thanks for having me. I'm really thrilled that you asked me to be here.
[00:03:08] Damaged Parents: Yeah. You know, I'm going to just jump right into it because we were just talking about some of the struggles of having caregivers, or I think you were going into even more of a story about disabilities and having babies and things like that.
let's talk a little bit.
[00:03:26] Victoria MacGregor: Yeah. I think that, what we started to get into was expectations. We all have expectations. And I think there were two things. There was one that, yes, I have a child with disability. I prefer to say a child with special abilities because he is quite unique. It's his journey. It's not really my journey. It took me a long time. Well, actually it probably didn't take a long time. It was pretty quick that I realized that what I had to do for him was going to be for him. And it's his journey, not mine. And he's going to be around a lot longer than I am and he needs to be able to be independent and, to use a word of someone, I just met a human.
and the other one was expectation. And I think as people we do, we have expectations of just about everything. We have an expectation that your car that you ordered is going to be perfect. The meal you ordered in a restaurant is going to be, as you ordered it. the flight you take from A to B is going to be without a glitch expectations.
And as soon as you have expectations and they aren't fulfilled what comes next is disappointed.
and why I say I'm not an extraordinary person, I've had extraordinary circumstances is because Stephen was born my son, , back in the, in the eighties, the early eighties. , I had expectations because I did everything I was supposed to do.
I was in my mid twenties. , I read all the books. I did everything I was supposed to do. Avoided certain things. And around me were also all my girlfriends were all having babies at the same time. And they all had boys which added insult to injury. They all had boys and mine was delivered on a different package. He didn't follow the same rules that there's did. He wasn't doing things at the time. We all look at books when we're young moms going, this is a milestone. How come he's not doing it? So
[00:05:18] Damaged Parents: Yeah, and thinking and thinking we did something wrong.
[00:05:22] Victoria MacGregor: we must've done something wrong and I've got a story to tell you about that too. And we must have done something wrong.
How come he's not pointing? How come he's not sitting? Why are all these things happening? And then you go to, well, maybe it's because his vision isn't good or some something must be not right. So my expectations of having the fat, chubby little baby who slept 12 hours a night, was thrown right out of the window cause he was anything but that, and expectations disappoint so very, very quickly.
And I was in my early twenties very, very quickly. And I think it's a defense mechanism. I have no expectations of anything.
[00:05:59] Damaged Parents: Anymore.
[00:06:00] Victoria MacGregor: I don't expect anything to play out as you plan. And, sometimes I think, because is that a good thing or is it a bad thing? It has worked for me, sometimes I might not look terribly upset about things. my partner will think,
[00:06:14] Damaged Parents: I've started that belief too in my life, like, because it actually is less stressful.
[00:06:21] Victoria MacGregor: Oh, it's so much less stressful.
[00:06:24] Damaged Parents: my kids are so confused. They're like, and, and I'm like, what do, what do you want? Like, am I supposed to be excited? just, I don't know. Sometimes.
[00:06:36] Victoria MacGregor: Yeah.
and I think that with my partner, he is, a very much, he will get quite something, a little thing will happen. Let me take the garbage pail falls over and garbage goes all over the floor. He's up on the ceiling and understanding there. Okay, well, we'll just pick up the garbage and put it back in the pale.
I can't it's it takes a lot of energy, a lot of energy to. Get excited at our or upset about things. One that you have no control over and are just, they just happen. and I don't want to sound. , hard, but sometimes you just have to deal. You just have to deal with, what's been dealt to you. I'm also a great believer , , I'll give you a bit of a backstory when I was a teenager.
I was youngest of four and I was very fortunate in that. My parents provided me with a horse when I was a teenager. All girls love horses. I fell in love with my horse and I was very, very fortunate, but. To balance it. They gave me a horse. I had to earn money to pay for all the little things that girls want for their horse.
And I was a babysitter. And back in those days, this is the seventies. Believe it or not, it was 50 cents an hour. So I worked a lot of hours. this one family that I worked for for many, many years , they had three boys. Both parents were at school teachers and their middle child had down syndrome. I look at that as perhaps, the starting of me understanding that people are all different. I come in all shapes and sizes and packages. and he was a great kid. I'm a little mark. He was wonderful. and I babysat him for five years and I was 14, 15. Then some stuff happened in that house, that I had never seen in my perfect little.
Square box of a house. so that was a learning ground. And then years later years later, and I'm jumping head when my son was now five years old and going off to school, his special education teacher turned out to be the mother that I babysat for.
[00:08:28] Damaged Parents: Oh, wow.
[00:08:30] Victoria MacGregor: So she just had this, I don't know what his empathy or understanding she knew exactly
how I was what I was doing and what I was going through. And she made it very, very easy, very normal, but very easy. so when Stephen was born and yes, I had this, I can remember one time, Angela. Then I actually came crumbling apart. I was thinking, oh, why is this happening? Why do I have to do this?
one time. and then I sort of dusted myself off and that's when I started to think, well, no, this isn't about me. I can roll around here and feel sorry for me and all that sort of stuff. I'm okay. Everything's fine with me. and went on you know, became Stephen's mother, not Stephen with a disability mother.
I was just Stephen mother.
[00:09:14] Damaged Parents: And I just think that's so beautiful. In fact, I just want the listeners to know when early on there's a sheet, you know, and the question is what's the biggest struggle that you've had. And from your perspective, I'll just read what you said. "This is a hard one. It's like asking me what's the most favorite place I visited. I've had many favorites. For different reasons. But since you'd asked, I'd have to say the end of my marriage in 2000, it hit me hard and could have been a defining moment for me. Instead, it took many years to really understand it and make my way back to me. Of course, there's the struggle of having a handicapped child, but the loss of my parents, the estrangement of my daughter, having never met my grandchild, all struggles worthy of being called the biggest."
And I just thought that was so. Beautiful. Yes. We talk about like one, generally one beautiful struggle. Right. in that struggle, or even while that struggle is happening, other struggles are happening too.
I am so glad that you've wrote that
[00:10:17] Victoria MacGregor: Yeah, thank you. I'd forgotten what I wrote. I forgotten what wrote
[00:10:21] Damaged Parents: That's okay. I would have to, I would have forgotten what I wrote too.
[00:10:26] Victoria MacGregor: what did I say? Look, and it's true. It's true. and I guess why I use that travel analogy as we have traveled a lot since retirement and people ask me that all the time. What's your favorite city? What's your favorite country? You know, it's like saying, what's your favorite food? it's not possible.
So with the struggles, with the struggles on yes, , and again, we go back to the expectation because the failure of my marriage, I had expectation, you know, when I was going to be like my parents and be married for 70 years, well, it didn't turn out that way and it knocked me for six, like really knocked me around and, For a couple of years and, it's not the type of thing you want to have happen when you've got two kids in a business and you know, it's a small community.
Everybody knows you. it's not great. And so that knocked me around a lot, took a number of years. and then of course losing a parent is it's a tragic thing. and then when you lose the second parent, you almost feel like an orphan. who are you now? Um, your identity? I think identity is probably a big one too, because when you're a wife and you're a Mrs.
And you're no longer that Mrs. and when you're a daughter and you're no longer a daughter, well, I still am, even though they're not here, I'm still a someone's daughter so with, being the parent of, of Stephen, I look at it as I'm a firm believer you are given what either you've got a lesson to learn or you get what you can handle. And I do kind of believe that,
[00:11:55] Damaged Parents: So let me see if I understand. So almost like, yeah, sure. There might be a lesson in there for me. However, this might just be that person's struggle and I'm part of the journey.
[00:12:06] Victoria MacGregor: correct? Correct. , it's not my journey. I remember my brother, who's seven years older than me. had a swimming accident when he was 21 and broke his neck. he's now almost 70 and it has followed him all his life. What happened? The result of that. so when Steven was diagnosed, my brother would have been in his early thirties and he said to me, he said, Vicki, you know what, if he's going to have a disability, it's better.
He has always had it than having known, not having it.
[00:12:36] Damaged Parents: Um,
[00:12:37] Victoria MacGregor: Okay. But it gives it some perspective, gives it some perspective.
[00:12:40] Damaged Parents: is a different journey if you don't have it
[00:12:44] Victoria MacGregor: That's a complete yep. Completely different journey. Steven is who he is. And I think that what I did early on, because I wanted him to have, and he does, he has an amazing full life and I wanted him to be independent.
I wanted him not to rely on. his diagnosis, that was really important. I want him to be an individual And he is he's Stephen he's not Stephen with Williams syndrome. He's Stephen and he identifies with that. He understands, , his disability, and all of that, but he is an individual. And, to watch him, the struggles that he's had and the fights that we've had have on his behalf, some of them are quite funny.
I mean, they really are. There's some humor and drama and trauma and, there is some humor there, so we do see some of it.
[00:13:36] Damaged Parents: and let me, let me just remind the listeners that I sometimes identify as a T-Rex because my I've got arms they're just not useful. You know? So, so it's sometimes I think finding that humor is healing.
[00:13:50] Victoria MacGregor: Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, you do have to see some of it as, as being funny. there are little things like a pullout that Steven did because his, reasoning was quite different than mine. And once. Again, you're growing with this person, right? You are learning about this person, and understanding how they think.
And then it's, a bit of a dance and a bit of a game, and then you,, you understand it so you can be preemptive. And then sometimes it's just so funny. he was just this brilliant kid who. It was so amazing at some things and lagged far behind with others. And I asked the question, how was that different from anyone?
[00:14:32] Damaged Parents: What a brilliant question.
[00:14:34] Victoria MacGregor: It's no
[00:14:35] Damaged Parents: fantastic.
[00:14:39] Victoria MacGregor: It's no different. It's exactly the same. Everybody's like, yeah, I love flying, but I don't know how to fly a plane. it's all of that when he visited here in Australia, , and he flew here, we didn't fly here on his own commercial airline. He's come here twice, came over on his own second time he came over. we offered him skydiving I've done it. , and I couldn't do it that time because I'd had just had a surgery and I said, look, if you want it. Do it, it's there. If you want to do it and he did it now, you know, That's a pretty big deal, , for somebody who one has spacial issues and reasoning skills. but he, Yeah.
he went right out of that airplane.
Beautiful, absolutely beautiful. For anybody who's ever done it, it is that thing that says, if you can do that and you don't jump, you fall out of an airplane. If you can fall out of an airplane,, you can do just about anything.
[00:15:29] Damaged Parents: Yeah. Now, can you explain what the symptoms are? What, happens with someone with Williams syndrome? Just so that we have a little bit of an understanding of the challenge.
[00:15:38] Victoria MacGregor: I had to write this down because, there are different diagnosis as for it. Look it's genetic condition. And it happens at conception. I have no control over this. there was nothing that all I did that was going to prevent this. It's delayed development
there's delayed development there's some learning disabilities and there's some personality traits. So the personality traits would be very friendly, gregarious, possibly too trusting. Everybody's a friend, and they look the same. much like down syndrome with, Williams syndrome. There are some facial features that are similar.
So Steven doesn't look like me and he doesn't look like his dad yet. He has blue eyes like me , he's musical like his dad. So there are things that he gets, there can be some heart issues. Stephen's very lucky. He doesn't have any, and other various health issues. He, I used to say, Steven was a bit like a bit like a train going from Montreal to Toronto in Canada.
He's going to get there. You're going to be a bit late, but he's going to get there. And I have met probably half a dozen other people with Williams syndrome and they are very similar in that they are very friendly, very trusting. he has not great, fine motor skills. , and then he's, left-handed just to add to the extra little drama of it all.
his sisters also left-handed, So those things can be a struggle.
He types beautifully. His handwriting is quite chicken scrawl. His reasoning is, a big one for kids with Williams syndrome.
So where.
there are, there can be quite trusting of other people. quick example of, if you tell your kids to go clean up their room, you have a relative expectation that when you go back in, it's going to be cleaned up with Steven. You know, it had to be narrowed down and go clean off the top of your bureau once that's done. Now go make your bed. If it's too abstract, if it's too big, he can't find the focus on what to do. So it's one thing at a time and then go back and do the next one, which as a parent is exhausting.
[00:17:39] Damaged Parents: Yeah.
[00:17:40] Victoria MacGregor: it's exhausting. By the time he was about 18. I was really tired.
I think I'd lost the joy, of Steven. and wasn't seeing it. Wasn't seeing the little monumental things that would happen. I got it back. And I think like with anything you just, got to take a bit of a, timeout I took a bit of a timeout. my timeout was moving 12,000 miles away.
[00:18:02] Damaged Parents: But, I mean, it sounds like even up until 18, I mean, you were giving him tools to be self-sufficient.
[00:18:13] Victoria MacGregor: Yes. I know. I think that I always said, , don't sweat the small stuff. So a couple of little examples because he had difficulty with fine motor. I saw no reason to frustrate his life or mine, to be perfectly honest with zippers and shoelaces. All Right.
[00:18:30] Damaged Parents: What's the point?
[00:18:31] Victoria MacGregor: What is the point? There are bigger things that need to happen during the day.
So he wore slip-on shoes and Velcro shoes. For some miracle, I was able to find a pull on snow parka Yeah. Had the mighty ducks on it. It was a mighty ducks hockey team. I can still see it. There are ways around those things. So if you removing those little frustrations, that in the big picture are irrelevant, whether you can tie shoelaces or not, or do a zipper.
It freed up time and energy for both of us.
[00:19:03] Damaged Parents: Yeah. And you had to get creative, like I'm just thinking of how. Someone could fight with the shoelaces and zippers and insist on it because that's, what's quote unquote normal or recognizing, okay, well, if we spend our time and energy on that, then we're not going to spend our time and energy over here, having fun because I'm going to be so freaking pissed off about the shoelaces on those zippers
[00:19:29] Victoria MacGregor: yeah, and it is, it's frustrating. It's so frustrating. and again, as I said before, it's a learning curve. So when my daughter who is four years younger than Steven, was born and she, you know, she would always say she was my, she was a bit of a blessing because she ate, everything, slept all the time and, you know, did all the things hit all the milestones.
so that for somebody who's had a child with a disability it's not a reward. It's just a confirmation that yeah, you, you can do it. You know, you, you can do it. But having said that when she was about four, she went through The great sock, the sock revolt
the
[00:20:09] Damaged Parents: great sock revolt.
[00:20:10] Victoria MacGregor: The great sock revolt. And she just, you know, ankle socks were too tight on her ankles, knee socks for too tight around her knees.
She just could not decide on her socks. And I can remember standing at the door. It was about minus 30 degrees and I had to get her to preschool and that she was having the tantrum about the socks. So I said, fine, don't wear any sock hmm, put her little beautiful little feet inside or snow boots marched her across the street to the childcare center and said, said to the lovely young lady, , don't ask, she pulls out her bare feet.
It's minus 30 outside, pulls her bare feet out of her boots. And I said, you know what? I'm not going to worry about it. She's got shoes here. Socks are irrelevant. That's not. And I went and it was
gone.
[00:20:58] Damaged Parents: but in that moment, could you laugh or, you know, like, were you capable at that point of,
laughing about it
[00:21:04] Victoria MacGregor: Yeah, I wasn't going to have the argument. It was silly. and there was a quick fix about it?
Just don't wear the socks.
[00:21:11] Damaged Parents: Yeah.
[00:21:11] Victoria MacGregor: and, but I think I learned that survival technique from Steven that I just, there are just some things you don't, it was more important that she gets To her class.
It's less important. Have an argument about socks with a four-year-old
[00:21:27] Damaged Parents: yeah, right. It's like, we're going to win those.
[00:21:29] Victoria MacGregor: that's right. We're not going to win, you
[00:21:32] Damaged Parents: funny that I'm thinking about it. How many arguments did I have when my kids were four thinking, I find just control this. If
do,
and it just would get worse. and so, I mean, even as teenagers just learning, I mean, talk about lack of control, right?
[00:21:54] Victoria MacGregor: right?
And all, and I believe that too. I think that because I just had the two, as a parent of a child with a disability, I think also when you only have the two and you know, my daughter is the sibling. I have someone with a disability. So she's got her own journey that she relates to in regard to that.
And I probably only know part of it, but she would watch what was going on with her brother, but there were no special deal. The rules were the rules opportunities for opportunities. So the opportunities that were presented to her were presented to him and vice versa,
[00:22:33] Damaged Parents: Mm.
[00:22:34] Victoria MacGregor: and some people came along for the ride and some didn't.
And, I have an example of soccer you know, soccer is a big thing. And in north America and, my daughter at the age of about 6, 6, 7, really wanted to play soccer. so great. You want to play? Steven's gonna play too.
[00:22:52] Damaged Parents: Hmm.
[00:22:52] Victoria MacGregor: And all I had to have a conversation with the coach at that point, he, Steven would have been around 10. And said, you know, I understand soccer, I understand soccer parents. I understand how important It is to everybody that their kid gets field. Tom. I said, I'm not asking you to play them all game because I know my son i'm not, I don't live under a rock. I know my son, I said just five minutes aside. I'm happy.
Give him some field time. And he did. He was a wonderful guy and he really got it. And he said, not a problem. Steven will play on the field at some point in, every game. And this one particular day, and it's a small town where we lived and this one particular game, He's on the field and he's watching bugs in the grass.
He's absolutely not paying any attention to the game, but suddenly the ball is coming at him and the entire stands are going. Even the other side, the other team parents are all screaming, kick the ball. Steven kicked the ball and he looks up and just it's right out of a movie, looks up at that point. And he nails the ball.
Doesn't go through the net. It's not Oscar winning stuff, but he nails the ball and he kicks the ball. And every single parent in its grandstand was on their feet, cheering it any, it was just a little tiny moment, but he got his little moment and he was doing what the other kids were doing on the flip side.
you've got We had a pool and I want the kids to learn how to swim and took them to a very large known pool, in Montreal won't name it, , for swimming lessons and the swimming instructor said to me, I can't teach your son how to swim. He has Williams syndrome.
[00:24:31] Damaged Parents: in my mind, why what's the.
[00:24:34] Victoria MacGregor: yeah. It's red.
Yeah. It's red rag to a bull. Right.
that's what I did. I kind of cocked my head to the side. I said, excuse me, I don't understand. What do you mean you can't teach him to swim because he has Williams syndrome. She's all. Well, I tried to teach another child with Williams syndrome to swim and it didn't work. Well, I thought, well, there's something wrong with this logic here.
I said, , well, I'm not okay with that. And then I'd like to speak to your supervisor as you do. And I said to him, I said, you're going to teach him. You're you're going to give them the opportunity to learn to swim, or I will do. And you'll be on the news and all those types of things that you do. I said, I can't, I, I just can't believe that. you can
Put, you know, one child and maybe the child that had Williams syndrome that they tried to teach to swim just was never going to learn to swim.
[00:25:20] Damaged Parents: Right.
[00:25:20] Victoria MacGregor: to, how to fear of water, who I don't know. so anyway, long story short, they taught him to swim. He got into the swim program, , some people get it.
And some people don't. I would always say you, you just don't take what somebody, somebody is experienced. Isn't necessarily going to be the experience they have with your child.
[00:25:39] Damaged Parents: Mmm, so when did you find that tenacity and that ability to. Say no, he's a child. He's not a child with a disability. He's not a disabled child. I'm going to use that word because I think that even a child with disability, sometimes there's this perception that children with disabilities just aren't capable in.
And there's like this write-off that happens
anyway. So,
[00:26:07] Victoria MacGregor: I think when it, when it happened, Angela, for me, and it happened right at the beginning this is the early eighties and there's no internet
[00:26:15] Damaged Parents: right.
[00:26:15] Victoria MacGregor: And so when Steven was diagnosed, he was 13 months old when he was diagnosed. And I received a call from the Doctor from the hospital and delivered the diagnosis over the phone, which was a really interesting way to do it. and she said, don't worry. She says, I'll get you lots of information about it. And then arrived in a big box. A few days later was reams and reams and reams of. xeroxed copies of medical information. And what struck me was it was telling me everything my son would never do.
[00:26:49] Damaged Parents: Mm.
[00:26:50] Victoria MacGregor: I thought, well, hang on a second.
How can they tell me what my son will never do? They've never met my son. They don't know the, the circumstances in which we live. They know nothing about me or my ex-husband or they don't know anything. They can't tell somebody what you're not going to do. So I took all that and went, Nope, put that
[00:27:10] Damaged Parents: you around filed.
[00:27:12] Victoria MacGregor: That's it gone. Don't want to know that's not right. And at that point, what I think I just in my head and again, coping mechanism on, I said, no, he is going to do whatever he's given the opportunity to do. And as soon as somebody takes away an opportunity, I'm going to say something. I don't think I thought about it that way in my head.
As you know, word for word, but I think that was the, feeling behind it.
was. No, you're not going to tell me what I can. I'm a bit like that. Don't tell me I can't do something.
[00:27:41] Damaged Parents: Like on a deeper level. it was no he's human.
[00:27:46] Victoria MacGregor: Yeah. He's a person he's going to have the opportunities that everybody else can when given the opportunity, To give it a go to have a trial. It's a very Australian thing. Give it a go. You always have to give it a go. And if it doesn't work out fine, there's no shame and failure, but you've got to try.
And you know, he, he speaks two languages. He's a musician. He rode his bike at the age, appropriate time to ride a bike. literally in the documents I read, they said he would never ride a bike.
[00:28:21] Damaged Parents: Now a question totally just popped into my head. That might be a little bit out of left field. But with, him having you as a parent, as one of his parents and seeing all of this, do you think he is better able at coping in today's world with the ability within context that he has. Like he's got abilities. It sounds like.
[00:28:45] Victoria MacGregor: Well, he has definite abilities. I think, you know, funny question. do. I think anybody could have done more for Steven than I did who knows I think what he learned, what he's learned or taken from me, is that , don't give up. I mean, I think if you were to speak to him, he'd say that I'm some kind of hero., which are not, if anybody is the hero, it's him. but I think that you do again, like with him opportunities present and he can give it a go with me. Opportunity and not opportunity. Things will come across in his life that I have a choice. I can say I can get involved in this one or I can let the system work.
It, I can advise him to in what to do, He's got great coping skills. Yes, he does. he's, you know, gone through COVID and locked down and missed Christmases, and all of that, not being able to see his friends. He's is very close to his father and, went months and months and months without being able to spend time with his father.
and his sister he is very close to his sister, so, but he coped. and he has an, he can understand that. I think because he is who he is in that abstract is difficult because his world right now is very small. That works for him. It works well for him. I worry that there'll be bored, but he doesn't get bored because he can easily entertain himself.
I used to get all wrapped up about how much time he spent on YouTube looking at train videos. I thought, how can anybody spend all that time looking at, you know, train videos, but that's what he enjoys So, you know, if that's what he enjoys doing, whereas my right to tell him you shouldn't do that. especially during the pandemic. But I think he, Yeah, I think he copes really quite well. He's very, empathetic and caring, all those things. he's non-judgemental, he doesn't see differences in people so much.
[00:30:48] Damaged Parents: Yeah, there's a quote,, seeing differences is smart. Seeing similarities as wise.
[00:30:54] Victoria MacGregor: Well, that's it. Right? That's it. and look, we had a great support system of friends and family when he was growing up. and people. often wonder, you know, my good friends were always quite supportive, but there were always those fringe people who, I mean, small towns are, can be quite brutal.
They, small towns can either be given you a big hug or talking about you behind your back or giving you the big hug. And then talking about you behind your back.
[00:31:21] Damaged Parents: I was going to say, we're both.
[00:31:23] Victoria MacGregor: Yeah. So, , you know, and, uh, it got back to me in the early days when Stephen was quite young, it got back to me, that there was rumor gossip that, you know, he was disabled because of something I had done when I was pregnant. And I thought. Really, you know, if You want to know, what's wrong with them and you want to know more, I don't even like to say that if you want to know why he is the way he is, come and talk to me,
[00:31:48] Damaged Parents: yeah.
[00:31:49] Victoria MacGregor: educate you. Not a problem,
[00:31:50] Damaged Parents: Yeah. You know,
I'm glad you say that because it's reminded me of my very first caregiver, who I also happened to go to church with. And she was so fantastic at church and saying, because people would go and talk to her and they would ask about me and she would just refer them back. To me now, I've also had that in my personal life where I've, been with people and they've actually referred to the caregiver to ask how I am.
And I'm very capable of seeing how I am. so there is, I think still very much a stigma about, not just people with disabilities, but people care for other people with disabilities too. Like, there's this idea that happens and it's really weird and sad.
[00:32:37] Victoria MacGregor: it is. It is weird inside. And I, know that and I can, appreciate people's curiosity. Because look we've been stared at and glanced over the shoulder at and all that kind of stuff. And I'm sure you can appreciate it. even with, my brother is obviously physically disabled and people will look,, they look and they sort of glance out of the corner of their eye and I was wanting to follow their eye, you know, sounded like a, what are you looking at?
[00:33:00] Damaged Parents: Yeah,
[00:33:01] Victoria MacGregor: know, really what are you looking at?
[00:33:03] Damaged Parents: I just start, I think what, for me, I started saying, oh yeah, my hands. Or like, if I knew, and I would just start up a conversation because. For me, I thought I could go the other way and I do sometimes get frustrated with it, but especially in the spring when my arms aren't as covered as they are right now, where I'll just be like, can people just stop staring and just ask, ask the question, you know, instead of me needing to open it up.
But I've learned that if by my response, having a disability. Really sheds light, because that might be someone's one of their only experiences with someone disabled or they don't have a lot of people or with a disability, or they don't know a lot of people with disabilities that I've got to be really careful, careful in some sense are loving in the sense that number one, I look awkward and number two, they just don't know.
And if I can say something and be gentle and kind, then maybe the world will start to open up even more for those of us with challenges like this. My biggest hope and dream is that those of us with disabilities are not recognized as different kind of like you were saying at the beginning of the podcast, what's the difference?
[00:34:23] Victoria MacGregor: Hmm. Yeah.
Explain it. I'm always been fascinated. Oh, I have a son with a disability on, I had no choice to that. He is my son, and I'm always fascinated And have a great deal of respect for those who choose to work with people with disabilities, the ones that are doing it for the right reason.
A lot of people are teachers because they got a big summer break. Some people are teachers because they love to teach.
[00:34:46] Damaged Parents: Yeah.
[00:34:47] Victoria MacGregor: when you have those people that are really genuine and committed to working with people with disabilities, any kind, whether it's a physical or mental or an emotional it fascinates me that they do that because it's, it's not an easy gig and I have a ton of respect for them for that.
[00:35:06] Damaged Parents: And they have these huge, what I've noticed about the ones who are in it, because they love that. Like it's because they love, it's not because of the paycheck or the, this, because most of the people I know they don't make enough money for what they deal with in that day-to-day
environment.
[00:35:25] Victoria MacGregor: It's the same here. and I think that. I've never been on, I don't know why. Maybe it's because as a teenager, I worked with, a kid with a disability and maybe I was 13 when my brother broke his neck. so saw that and I know how easy it is for things to change.
It also does fascinate me that there is a huge chunk of the population who has never had any kind of a social or family interaction with someone with a disability. You know, I find that fascinating to me, but it probably is only because I always have. my current partner and before he was, we'd been together for a long time.
And before he, we were together, he never knew anyone with a disability ever in his life. And I met him when he was 53.
it was a struggle for him because he would look at Stephen and see an able-bodied young man. And he couldn't quite connect the dots on how come he can't do this and how come he can't do that.
And I would just, I'd say again and again, he's not hardwired that way.
[00:36:27] Damaged Parents: Yeah.
[00:36:27] Victoria MacGregor: look at what he can do and you work with that. and it's hard work. But when you get it, when the light bulb goes on and you connect those dots, you go, Oh,
Yeah. this is brilliant. You know, this is really, really good.
I mean, I speak to him almost every day. And we have great conversations. , it can be from anything and he has a great memory for what I'm doing, you know, and a little thing. Well, mom, when you were talking to you last time you were in the shops and you know, what did you get when you were there?
And I think it's really important that we're not all the same and whether you've got one leg or two or you get your numbers mixed around or whatever it is. , we're not all the same and thank goodness. We're not all the same. You know that the stuff that you learn, I mean, I feel very fortunate I wouldn't trade them up and I know that sounds cliche, but I wouldn't trade him up in a heartbeat because what I've learned from him and what he has taught other people and, you know, it's just, it's huge.
And I just, yeah.
[00:37:30] Damaged Parents: Yeah. And the thing that keeps coming to mind is the teacher became the student and the student became the teacher. And it just consistently happen , throughout your life with Steven that sometimes you were in teacher role, and sometimes you were in student role, and sometimes he's you're in teacher role and, or vice versa, whatever I said,
[00:37:50] Victoria MacGregor: No, no, I get you. I
[00:37:51] Damaged Parents: I
[00:37:52] Victoria MacGregor: You're wearing a different, you know, you're wearing a different hat. Sometimes you got the teacher hat on and sometimes you got the people hat on and it is like that. And I like to think that at some point over the years, you know, through school or since school, people have learned a little bit about life and. What's fair and what's wrong. And what's right through an interaction with either myself or with Steven. , I take great comfort in that. it's not great, you know,
I turned 55 and I had to have a hip replacement and in my head, I'm thinking what really,
[00:38:27] Damaged Parents: Yeah, I know. Cause I don't think as we get older that we feel like we're that old, you know, it's like a dysmorphic about being about the age.
[00:38:37] Victoria MacGregor: Yeah.
well, and I, I know I even said my, my sister bless her. She's, you know, bond the youngest. And she said, well, you're not old enough for a hip replacement. And I said, well, tell that to my hip. You know, it had to come out, but it was a real, again, an expectation. Right? I was a runner and I was in fabulous shape and I was going to be running.
I was going to those persons going to be met, doing marathons at 90 and no, no, don't run anymore. Can't do that. And that was, again, something that you've got to go well, hang on a second. What can I still do?
[00:39:07] Damaged Parents: Yeah.
[00:39:08] Victoria MacGregor: You know? No, I can't run. I don't even think I could run across the street.
[00:39:12] Damaged Parents: Yeah.
but I think too, like a lot of people don't think that they're ever going to get there, but the reality of it is as we age, everyone ends up with some sort of disability in their lifetime. Hopefully, because if they don't then they probably died quickly, you know, which,
[00:39:27] Victoria MacGregor: or very young.
[00:39:28] Damaged Parents: or early.
Yeah. And so I think it's one of those things that is worth. Bringing to the forefront and talking about, you know, because when we set up these rules and these guidelines, we're actually setting them up for ourselves as we get older too, because it's the same rules and the same guidelines for the elderly.
[00:39:46] Victoria MacGregor: Well,
[00:39:47] Damaged Parents: And I don't think we think about
[00:39:49] Victoria MacGregor: No. And I think too, as you get older, maybe it's because a different time to when my parents were where my age, mind you, my parents never, ever thought of age. they didn't celebrate big 60th birthday. Why is 60 more important in 59 or 64? It's they're all important.
, and I think as, we get older, it's very easy to fall into a trap of, oh, we always may and I'm getting older and I can't do this anymore. I don't look like I used to look. Well, the reality is. If you're lucky enough and fortunate enough to live into your nineties, most of your life, you are going to be over the age of 35. not
[00:40:28] Damaged Parents: a great point.
[00:40:30] Victoria MacGregor: so embrace it. Or you're going to be married to support.
[00:40:34] Damaged Parents: I love that. Okay. We are, we are way over in time, but I to you, but I do. if someone today that is listening to the podcast and they've got someone in their life who's just having a baby or has, I mean, I don't know, let it give us three tools or tips you think just the world could use.
How about that? I know
that's very broad.
[00:40:56] Victoria MacGregor: that's very broad. Oh three tools are look. The first one is you've got to see the humor in everything there is humor and everything, and that humor really needs to be aimed at yourself sometimes. and it's okay. the second one would have to be expectations. Watch that watch your expectations.
that fall out from expectations is disappointment and maybe that's the other one, spin that disappointment around into something positive. if you are disappointed there's a silver lining and everything there really, really is. and so I would say that would probably be the next one, but having said that, I don't get the opportunity very often to talk about, , Steven and, all of that. And I, and I do love to do it and it, I can share from here on with anybody I'd more than happy to, To be
[00:41:43] Damaged Parents: Definitely. Yeah, and your information will be putting it in the show notes. which will include, you've got your email address in there. So you guys can find her in the show notes, https://victoriaspress.com. She's on Instagram @victoriaspress Twitter is @victoriaspress1 you so Victoria,
[00:42:05] Victoria MacGregor: thank you, Angela.
[00:42:06] Damaged Parents: Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Relatively Damaged by Damaged Parents. We've really enjoyed talking to Victoria about how she learned to cope and insist that others see her son for his humanity. We especially liked when she spoke with an abundance of love for her children. To night with other damaged people connect with us on instagram look for damaged parents We'll be here next week still relatively damaged see you then
