Episode 61: Into the Light - Demystifying Addiction and Mental Health Problems (what happens when a doctor becomes a patient)

Stephan Neff

Stephan Neff is an anaesthetist, bestselling author, speaker, show host and alcoholic in recovery. After studying medicine in Heidelberg, Germany he travelled and worked in Europe and Australia before settling down with his family in beautiful New Zealand. As a retired pain physician, he developed a specific insight into human psychology. As a man trying to drown his sorrows, he found out the hard way that the critters can swim. But over the last 7 years, he made every day a little bit better than yesterday. Today Stephan is an expert in living a life so fantastic, that alcohol has simply no role to play. He shares this passion through his podcast and YouTube channel INTO THE LIGHT. In his book "Steps to Sobriety" he shares the lessons he has learned as a doctor and as a man. And the truth is simple - The past does not equal the future. Every alcoholic can turn his life around, one little decision at a time. This book shows how to do it.

Social media and contact information: https://stephanneff.podbean.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ5Rgw59jOX4y3iDeMAXpwQ
https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephan-neff-author/
https://www.mystepstosobriety.com

Podcast Transcript:

Damaged Parents: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Relatively Damaged Podcast by Damaged Parents where drunk, addicted, tipsy people come to learn maybe just maybe were all a little bit damaged. Someone once told me it's safe to assume 50% of the people I meet are struggling and feel wounded in some way. I would venture to say it's closer to 100%.

Every one of us is either currently struggling or has struggled with something that made us feel less than like we aren't good enough. We aren't capable. We are relatively damaged. And that's what we're here to talk about. In my ongoing investigation of the damage self, I want to better understand how others view their own challenges.

Maybe it's not so much about the damage, maybe it's about our perception and how we deal with it. There is a deep commitment to becoming who we are meant to be. How do you do that? How do you find balance after a damaging experience? My hero is the damaged person. The one who faces seemingly insurmountable odds to come out on the other side, whole.

Those who stared directly into the face of adversity with unyielding persistence to discover their purpose. These are the people who inspire me to be more fully me. Not in spite of my trials, but because of them. Let's hear from another hero.

Today's topic includes sensitive material, which may not be appropriate for children. This podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended as advice. The opinions expressed here were strictly those of the person who gave them.

 Today, we're going to talk with Stephan Neff he has many roles in his life, husband, father, retired anesthesiologist, best-selling author, speaker, show host and more. We'll talk about how he tried to drown his sorrows in alcohol and how he found health and healing let's talk

Welcome to Relatively Damaged by Damaged Parents. Today, we have Stephan Neff and amazing human who also happens to practice the anesthesia is a bestselling author, speaker, show host of Into the Light and an alcoholic in recovery. I'm so glad you're here.

Stephan Neff: [00:02:20] Thank you so much for having me. It is an honor, a pleasure and it will be good fun. No doubt.

Damaged Parents: [00:02:26] I'm sure. You know, I'm so excited to get, to hear your story because we got to talk about my story. Not that long ago.

Stephan Neff: [00:02:34] Hmm, Indeed. Indeed. You were a guest on my show for which I'm very, very grateful. So watch out guys. There's a great interview coming on Into the Light with our gorgeous host here.

Damaged Parents: [00:02:47] Oh, thank you. Thank you. I'm blushing. And it's not a video podcast, so no one can see my red cheeks. So let's talk about that struggle. I'm almost afraid I'm going to give it away because I know a little bit about your struggle. If you would start us off, so then I don't give it away.

That would be fantastic.

Stephan Neff: [00:03:11] Well, hi guys. Stephan, I was born in '66 and I'm a    typical result of  growing up in the eighties. With heroes,  that are down and out and get up in the morning, like Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon, getting up, having a cigarette, having a beer, having a pee and then getting on with work kind of a thing.

There was  a time when I was not so far off that luckily I never got into the smoking, but I then made up quite a lot with the beer and beer was so not really my thing after all I was sophisticated, please. I was a wine collector. Shall I say an empty wine bottle collector was probably more correct.

And wine I, you know, it's beautiful, but you know, free bottles and our recycling comes once a week and these poor guys, they had special labels on my bin. Careful heavy load. And I'm not, I'm, I'm choking

Damaged Parents: [00:04:08] Oh, okay. I was going to ask, I was like, really? They put special labels just for you.

Stephan Neff: [00:04:13] They should have. They should have. So, no, in and whilst, I'm making a lot of jokes about it.

It was actually a very, very, very dark time because whilst I have become a very successful person in my professional life, I did not learn the life skills to deal. With the negative emotions with the challenges that every life gives you. I was emotionally retarded really when I was a younger man. And when, as a younger, that goes up until about seven years ago, I simply made it up as I went and somewhere along the lines, I lost myself completely.

I could identify myself very much in my work, but I couldn't identify myself as a man. I was empty really. And maybe that was not surprising because life throws you challenges, life throws you marriage. Life throws you children, money, trouble work. And I excelled by focusing on the work focus, focus, focus, 16 hours a day.

And I strived in that. I loved it, but it was typical that I came home and immediately decompressed with at least a glass of wine, which then became a bottle of wine before I even thought of dinner kind of thing. So it was a very unhealthy lifestyle. There was no balance the swing was all the way down on one side.

Okay. So we have the seasaw because it was, yeah, I was broken yet. I had no idea that I was.

Damaged Parents: [00:05:54] So you didn't know you were broken and yet you had these feelings that were happening during this process, and it sounds like you were using the alcohol to numb them in what was going on that hell. Yes. Is that what you said?

Stephan Neff: [00:06:08] Oh, yes. Oh yes. Well, I had probably more than my fair share of trauma uh, starting off from probably not such a great childhood to, probably we a teenager years, because at once there are troubles assaulted by a gang and it was sort of getting close to life and death. And I was certainly quite traumatized, very much beaten up and bruised and swollen around the face.

And that was when I was 13. And. I was instrumental in getting the gang leader behind bars and the guy threatened me and said, Oh, when  I come out, I'll kill you. And I knew I had 3 years when he was in jail to get my shit together. So from being a young, maybe a little bit podgy young man at 13, within a month, I started training with the police, in Germany and, the police sports club and started training, martial arts and a very effective system of martial arts.

So within a few months I became a lean mean fighting machine. But with that, I also became quite dark because I knew there would be a life and death struggle coming and. Yeah. I was training four hours a day, , rain or shine. And I turned into a man who was in control, who would be in control, who was striving to be in control of the situation.

If at every one second. In the life. And that made me a very good anesthetist because I'm in control. I know ABC, whatever happens. My plan a is working. If not, then I go to B and C etc. I'm the guy who sits with the back against a wall, close to an exit. And I know exactly where my escape routes are in any restaurant.

And my boys have taken on the same habits. And they also make jokes of it. And my wife is making jokes of it. They're making sure they're checking themselves out the restaurant and they're checking themselves out everything. and then offer me to see the honor where I am in control. And it's a little, little going joke, but in a nutshell, that is the PTSD is just shouting out come on.

Did I realize that I had PTSD not until about two years ago because my brain reframed things. So here I reframed the negative things into something positive, which essentially, I guess it is situational awareness is a beautiful thing. I won't get caught out again by some gang and things like that.

So there are positive sides to it, but the negative sides I brushed under the carpet so there I had PTSD, interesting dreams waking up every morning, four o'clock, on the dot and, having my life story play through Stephan's worst moments in life, four o'clock in the morning hello we're here a morning show.

Oh God. And that was for years.

Damaged Parents: [00:08:59] So you were literally playing over and over and over every morning, the things that would go wrong or could go wrong or had gone wrong instead of recognizing what had gone. Right.

 Okay.

Stephan Neff: [00:09:12] That was just a fun. And I was you know that flashbacks, not too gory things in my life. That's the weird thing. It must have the weird little crappy shit that you did. The way you looked at someone, the way you made someone feel 30 years ago that might be an old partner. That might be whatever it was.

It must that kind of, we had absolute weird rubbish. My brain had focused on every single negative things and laid it down forever to be repeated like a broken record, old vinyl, you know,

people don't know what it actually is.

Damaged Parents: [00:09:51] right. It sounds like you reached out for tools though. And unfortunately alcohol was that tool for a long time.

Stephan Neff: [00:10:01] Exactly, exactly. And it did so very well in all fairness, whatever it happened. Give me two glasses of wine down in one, and that might be glasses. Come on. Let's be honest here. And then it came with a sound effect.

That was the sound effect. My shoulders relaxed. There was a beautiful warmth coming from the center of my tummy. It was, ah then I would put some music on and I was back 21, the good 21 and yeah, there I was.

Damaged Parents: [00:10:36] So it literally shifted when you took that drink, you went from the bad thoughts. Cause I heard you say the good 21. So it sounds like part of 21 wasn't good. Or are there moments in

21 that weren't good.

Stephan Neff: [00:10:51] Well it was seven years after the assault. So there was still the PTSD, not recognized. There I was me trying to find myself as a young man insecure and making it up with bravado and bullshit and big mouth. And it was, yeah, I was this, it's weird to describe it now, but I was so broken and immature, it's actually strange.

And having said that when, I put myself down like that. I don't want to do that in a negative way. I just want to recognize. How little I knew about life and how little I had been guided. How bad my values were, due to upbringing due to it was a very shallow focus on life. It was just weird absolute weird compared to nowadays with the man I've become after rehab. After diving into life and focusing on the problems, but in it with the view of dealing with them and not the problems of daily life that's anyhow when I do deal with them, but no the problems, the trauma, the multiple layers of trauma that had left scars in my soul.

 And these scars were festering with pus. They were still oozing, pus and negativity because I hadn't dealt with them. I'd put band-aids on them with the alcohol and with other negative coping mechanisms, but I never actually addressed the underlying problem. And that was, I think that is the biggest thing in our lives today that, we try to do quick fixes.

We are not renovating the house proper. Now we just put a lick of paint over the mold and hope it goes away. And that just doesn't tend to work. Yeah.

Damaged Parents: [00:12:48] The mold is still there. So was there something specific that happened when you came to realize that alcohol was in fact not helping and there could possibly be a better way?

Stephan Neff: [00:13:01] Reality is that 95% of alcoholics will be absolutely convinced that there's nothing wrong with them because that's what our brain does. That is what alcoholism does to you. It tries to convince you, and it's very powerful with doing that.

It's very powerful to do that by a number of mechanisms. One is that you surround yourself with other alcoholics. So therefore you will not stand out. And there's always one worse than you. So you can go but no, no, no he is an alcoholic. I'm a wine collector, you know, I was a high functioning alcoholic.

So because I kept a job how much that was a high function meh meh and it was probably a matter of time, and so on and so on. So our brain, is very powerful in distorting the truth. So it that it fits your own agenda. And the agenda for an alcoholic is to keep drinking. So that is something that needs to be recognized as so 95% of us will not admit it.

I was the same. I deep down, I knew that. Things could not continue yet. The alcoholic in me always came up with a really good idea. Like, today you had such a shit day, come on, you deserve that glass of wine. Oh, if was a good day today, great. Let's celebrate with a glass of wine. Well, it's not such a good day or bad day, just a normal day.

Look, why don't you just relax and have a glass of wine? You know, it is however the agenda plays. That is what alcoholism does to you it is a disease that plays with your reward and your memory system. And that is where you end up in trouble. So therefore it is normal that these kind of negative faults are persistent.

So did I know that there is something wrong? Deep inside. Yes, my conscious brain. Yes, because I was a doctor, because I was seeing what was happening. Yet the alcoholic brain in me turned things around. So it didn't look so bad? Okay. And in all fairness, there were many mornings when I woke up, I dry retched, because the, our goal does its number on the stomach.

Then at night enough is enough and I would even put the vodka away. It would be wine bottles emptied into the sink. And that would last a day because that's typically how long a nasty hangover lasts. And then the evening I would be. Wow. See, I'm so good. I have gone through that day. Wow. I don't need a drink next day yeah right.

There you go. Exactly.

Damaged Parents: [00:15:45] So that went on and on until what happened. I mean, when.

Stephan Neff: [00:15:49] My wife, my wife happened. My wife is a fantastic woman who herself, is an alcoholic. We both drank like fishes, but she found Jesus Christ. And with the help of her church with the help of well white knuckling, really, she got clean. She stopped drinking actually for three years. I was clean and try to get me to stop drinking.

So we had many arouse, about that and all the hiding that is going on in front of her. No, no, darling. I have not drank a single drop no, no darling no , what do you smell is, is, is ginger beer? Uh, yeah, right. Okay. And that was a very convincing liar. She said that so many times, cause I looked her in the eyes.

No, don't I haven't drunk. She would smell my breath. But you smell funny. No, no, that's ginger beer no, no, no, no. I'm a convincing arse. I'm a bullshitter, of the highest quality. And that is at first not a good thing because I was able to hide my addiction or try to, to cover it up. And if that's just bullshit, but finally, because the pain in my life didn't stop.

I mean, when I say to pain and trauma, we discussed the gang assault that led to their PTSD. What we haven't discussed is essentially. All the other trauma, all the other stresses in life of moving around the world, starting new jobs, selling houses, buying houses, all those stresses that can put a huge challenge onto lives.

I got my parents out of Germany to live with us here within six months. My, father-in-law, uh, my father, uh, stepfather had a leukemia, so he rotted away for a year and, probably a year and a half. Meanwhile, my mother developed breast cancer, but she kept hidden to be able to focus on my stepfather only then for her to rot another 18 months until she passed away.

And it was all shit like that. So there was three years in my life where we had no money because ultimately I worked incredibly hard, but I bought them a house so that they can live in something with a mortgage I couldn't afford and things like that. So it were money trouble. There was just trouble everywhere.

And the only thing I could do is work harder and then get drunk. And that was really my life. And it all boils down to that survival mechanism. And it was absolutely awful with hindsight.

I didn't look up.

Damaged Parents: [00:18:31] Yeah. And you said that your wife happened and then I hear stories about how you lied to her and

Stephan Neff: [00:18:38] Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. But that's the reality. So my wife is a gorgeous girl and she didn't give up. And for that, I am so grateful. She didn't give up. And one night I was, drunk, sobbing my eyes out in the garage and she didn't know what to do. So she called my boss, in the hospital. He came over, saw me.

And that was when the lid came off, that was ultimately when I was no longer able to hide and where I was with hindsight actually grateful that it all came to a climax. And really three days later, I was in a rehab hospital. Here in Auckland, they had organized it really behind my back. And they said, basically, if you don't do that, you will lose your job.

And if you don't do that, then you lose your marriage. Because Lisa and the children were ready to walk away from me. There was a clear ultimatum there.

Damaged Parents: [00:19:36] And you knew that they would follow through.

Stephan Neff: [00:19:38] Oh, yes. Oh yes.

Damaged Parents: [00:19:39] There was no

question.

Stephan Neff: [00:19:40] There was certainly not, many doubts in my mind.  I don't know if they really would have, because ultimately, it is a huge step, but I think with hindsight, I think they would have, yes, wouldn't have been long

Damaged Parents: [00:19:52] And what were your feelings when you wake up? I mean, you're drunk, your wife's called your boss over and they're telling you, you've got to get your stuff together. What did that feel like? Or what did they do? And then what did they that feel like.

Stephan Neff: [00:20:09] it was actually a beautiful feeling because I woke up, I was ready to be full of guilt and shame, and my family came in and they actually all snuggled up to me. And gave me a hug, basically told me, Hey, you're going to go to the hospital and you're going to get better. And I stopped fighting it. And I stopped, being upset.

And there was this finality to it. There was this clarity to it that, okay, my life will change. And it was like a kick in the guts. First of all, I was ready to fight. I was ready to be full of shame yet. There was this love that they showed to me. And that was so disarming. This was beautiful.

The human connection was there and they showed me that they cared and that was beautiful, incredibly painful, but incredibly beautiful at the same time.

Damaged Parents: [00:21:02] It sounds to me like their ability to come to you with love, took the wind out of the sails of shame.

Stephan Neff: [00:21:11] And that is not as happening again and again, in my life down the line. That is exactly what is occurring. Sometimes there are times when we are not our best and nowadays, it's virtually impossible for us to fight. Because we understand that any kind of friction that is arising means that we haven't loved ourselves.

We haven't looked after ourselves. When, I suddenly get prickly as she just looks at me and says, what's going on? Have you eaten, have you, rehydrated, are you angry about something at work? Are you stressed? What's going on? Have you slept well these kinds of things. So we are asking these questions rather than responding to something.

We are very good in misunderstanding each other, my wife and me. And sometimes there comes times when she flies off the handle. I said, what's going on? Where is that coming from? And it turns out that she is just as broken as me deep inside, because she has got her own trauma from childhood and these kind of things.

So here we are. We have to live with these traumas and there's still, I mean, we're both in our fifties now yet. It's still the childhood shit. The childhood programing is still coming out. And it's just, you think what the hell? This is what 45 years ago that these things happened

Yet here you are you're still responding because something I said triggered her and she suddenly felt like that a little child, being treated like a little child, kind of a thing. Not that I did that. Not that I intended to do that. It was just something in my voice something in the way I looked at her, triggered her and suddenly,

Damaged Parents: [00:23:03] So,

what I heard you say though, is that when those things happen, either you get mad and she gets mad or frustrated, or, you know, those unfun emotions that when that happens, then you can stop in a loving way and say, Hey, what's going on instead of responding, or she can do it to you because I also heard you say, we recognize that that's when we haven't done something inside of ourselves.

Stephan Neff: [00:23:32] Absolutely. That's exactly it. That's exactly. If you have nailed it dear. We have got the mindfulness and the awareness of our weaknesses. We have peeled away the onion layers of trauma. So just as much as, our trauma comes in layers, our healing comes in layers too, and we continue to peel away those layers to actually see what lies underneath there.

I mean, I'm a doctor, she's a nurse, and literally we're taking the bandages off and have a look and examine the wound underneath there. That's what you would do in a hospital every day. That's exactly what we have learned to do with our own wellbeing, as well as with our illbeing.

Damaged Parents: [00:24:20] I love that with our illbeing .

Stephan Neff: [00:24:22] Mm.

Damaged Parents: [00:24:22] So I've got, of course ask the tough question. I'm thinking there are times when you are both not in a position to respond in love. And what do you do then? How do you handle it?

Stephan Neff: [00:24:36] Give each other space, we walk away, we walk away from each other. And, typically what I want to do is I'm a very tactile guy. So if I see her getting upset, I would love to give her a hug and give her a big bear hug, show her without saying a word, actually, darling, I love you. And that often  can explore the situation further because she, in that moment, when we have crossed that threshold, she is angry.

I mean, angry. And so the only way that we can do that is walk away from each other. And sometimes we can do it in that stage. We can do it. Okay. We just need some time, but often enough because I have been rejected. So there's this rejection point of view and, after all, I have not done anything wrong yet.

I'm being scolded. I'm getting the third degree and I feel so hurt. And however, weird it sounds, it's so fucked up, but that's what I feel like a little boy who is hurt and who wants now to throw his, toys out of the cotton and have a tantrum. That's sometimes how I feel. And that's probably sometimes how I behave as well.

But nowadays we recognize that these things are going on. We are recognize what is happening. So it's very rare that I've got a pity party. Because my mind actually can see what's happening in my head and I can catch myself. Sometimes I have a pity party because I actually haven't looked after myself.

Sometimes it is just a shit day. Sometimes I just want to roll up in the fetal position. And sometimes my body and my mind just needs that nowadays unaccepted, unaccepted that not every day can be good just to as much as not everyday you can sleep well. One in 10 nights will be shit like it or lump it.

That is normal enormously pattern in normal people. Just the same as, not every day can be as beautiful as you wish it to be. And I nowadays I've learned to accept it and if there's a row and if I want to feel sorry for myself and that's absolutely fine. There's a reason that my body sends me that message and says, okay, time to go to bed, time to literally go to bed and feel sorry for yourself, cuddle yourself up in your bed.

Do some sudoku whatever you want to do. I don't care. Watch some Netflix don't care. But actually that's what you need. And nowadays I've learnt to accept it as part of me.

Damaged Parents: [00:27:11] So accepting the feelings as they happen and not trying to change them into what you think they should be.

Stephan Neff: [00:27:19] Beautifully said beautifully said, because you know, there we are. If you get brainwashed that we have to be happy at every moment in time, we have to live perfect. And there is nothing wrong with our lives. You have to stupid mask up all the time and it's just so exhausting. No, no, no, no. Nowadays that I wear that mask, but I try to be honest with that mask.

If that makes sense. When I go to work. I don't want to be the grumpy guy. I actually switch on a different persona in me that I've cultivated that I very, very much enjoy to play the guy who supports others. The guy who treats everyone equal from the cleaner to the CEO. And it's just nice, I'm the guy that brings a smile onto the face of others, and an honest smile and a good vibe into a room where I work.

And That is beautiful. I love that. I cultivate this, understanding this, allowing people to be dare their real self. And so it's a bit of acting, I guess. I guess that's my work persona. I don't want to be the crumby guy I can distinguish between. Okay. Today's not such a good day for me, but that doesn't mean to say, I have to bring other people down on the contrary.

I will go to work, give my technician a hug. We'll do whatever it takes, do a stupid joke and whatever it is, and bring laughter into people's faces. And that brings laughter onto my face onto my soul. It is as if the positive persona seeps down into my emotions and says, well, actually, are you really so bad off?

Are you really right in your negative perceptions and often enough? No, I'm not. And it's like, convincing myself, actually, man, look at your life, be grateful. And if you think, what could you be grateful for? And suddenly they come all these things where you have to say, huh, I'm actually really grateful.

And boom, the negative mood is gone. So there are some, psychologists called them power moves that if you need to go into battle, well, people will do the Haka here in New Zealand or they will slap their chest. These are all things. When I start a show, I will do the 10 seconds of meditation speak meditation, so to speak and I will switch on a different persona.

So that's what you do when you go into battle into a certain situation. That's, the same thing that you can learn to do in your daily life, you can switch on different personas and you choose ultimately which persona you want to wear, which I don't want to call them masks because they are deeper, but  which you, you want to be.

And I think that is a choice that we always have.

Damaged Parents: [00:30:24] What I heard you say was really beautiful in that when you were talking about switching the persona that when you went to work, what I heard was you shift, and then furthermore, as you were describing what you were doing, I heard things that were in line with your values, hugging someone, joking, bringing joy and laughter.

And I think that's really interesting. And then you said eventually, sometimes in that day, all of a sudden, maybe it's not so bad, it's like that other weird emotion or the unfun one just needed to surf. Through your body or something. I don't know. What are your thoughts on that?

Stephan Neff: [00:31:04] exactly right. Exactly. About negative emotions. They are dear and stand normal. I see them as messengers that. Something was not right. It, typically mean that I haven't looked after myself. And that is the very first way  how I look at them and try to see, hang on, what do I need to do to actually get better?

What have I missed now? Sometimes I haven't missed anything. There is no good reason. And it is just, okay, it's just a wave in the ocean. And if you're a swimming in the ocean and the wave is coming, you can get really upset about it. And really say, I hate you wave. And yet a wave was still coming. You can do whatever you want to do.

The wave is coming, but also the wave is going. The wave is one wave. Okay. Even if it wasn't tsunami, there's only so much water that can shift and at some stage it will stop. And that is something that I've learned to recognize. That's maybe why I sometimes can give in to negative emotions that pity party, because I know it will come and it will go.

So it's just a matter of biding time. I sometimes I can speed that up with mindfulness and I can just completely take the wind out of the sail from that emotion. And that's cool. And sometimes, there is an anxiety attack there. I feel like shit. My mind is racing and my heart is thinking what the hell?

And the only thing you can do is wait, take a few deep breaths. Nice calm, deep diaphragmatic, breathing, some breathing exercises and boom, 10 seconds. A minute later, it's gone. So surfing the wave of a negative emotion of an anxiety attack of a bad day. That's the skill that I want you guys are there to develop to accept that negative emotions are part of life.

You, they are just there. Take them as messages from your body that you need to look after yourself and listen to them. Don't fight them.

Damaged Parents: [00:33:17] How did you. Get to a point where you were comfortable with that with surfing the emotions and accepting those what you're calling negative. And I call unfun  so that you could be so comfortable because you're looking at your, with, I look at you, you just look so relaxed.

You're like, yeah, you just got to serve this emotion. That's just how it is. I mean, you're not, you're not even as you're talking about what they feel like. I mean, I see a little bit come up and then it just kind of washes away. So how does somebody get to that point?

Stephan Neff: [00:33:51] With shitloads of work. I get shit, lots of, work I'm a doctor, so when I see a problem or work on it and I, when I want to learn a language, I immersed myself in that language. It's the same, what I did with the lack of coping mechanisms that I had. So when I went into rehab, I focused on the rehab and it was a 12 step program.

So that was what I did. And I really went to town. Now, step four in the program is that you take a good, hard, long look at what you do and how you cope and all these kinds of things. You look at resentments and fears and you basically start taking yourself apart. And that was the most powerful thing because I started discovering how my broken mind was looking at things

How my programing, was underlying everything was creating negative emotions, all this kind of really deep kind of stuff. That's what I started to learn and to accept and to look at. Now,  this is please what you hear today is seven years of hard work. So this was not something, Hey, that just comes to you.

And no, for example, in when I was in rehab, every morning at 10 o'clock was the most dreaded rehab session of the day. And it was called emotions and emotions works that you sit around a room and like in a circle. You're not allowed to have sunglasses on, no hat, nothing in your hands, no computer, no nothing to write

and you're just sitting there. And there was this silence and then somebody says something and it could be some reflection how the therapy is going, or it could be that they're pissed off if the other guy who ate all the chocolate cookies and whatever it was suddenly discussion started. And often enough fetters flew.

And then it was just, weird and emotions came out and this was an hour of raw emotions. And normally we would have numbed them with alcohol, uh, marijuana uh, cocaine, speed, whatever it is, whatever our mixture of poisons were. And we would have somehow dealt with it , in a chemical way or in a very behavioral way, sex, uh, pornography, gambling, eating, whatever it was.

And here we were forced to actually live these emotions, whatever they were positive, negative, and dealing with them and that was a most bizarre experience for many of us to actually learn what it feels like to be sad, angry, joyful, et cetera. So that was bizarre. So it was like a one-on-one, uh, emotions for dummies, kind of thing.

And that is what every morning, 10 o'clock was all about. So maybe because we have been so powerful in suppressing our emotions that this was such a dreaded session,

Damaged Parents: [00:37:10] Yeah, it sounds really hard and pretty scary. I think I would have been afraid too 

Stephan Neff: [00:37:17] Well, we, all have, we have built up this belief system about ourselves, where we brushed the negative things under the carpet, or try to hide them from ourselves. And we somehow try to focus on the positive and, depending upon the live you live, unfortunately, sometimes that does so not work and in many of us because there's trauma in every life.

It just doesn't work the negative emotions are there. And the first thing you need to accept is that they are there and you need to accept them as part of your life. As I said, for me, as part of, as a messenger system and then just get on with it, let them wash over you and then focus on positive things.

And with that, I don't mean the power of positive thinking. We just think positive. The world is beautiful and really our houses burning around us. No no, no, not that kind of positivity, but rather okay. Yeah. That's pretty shit. Yeah. Their houses burning. So what can I do about it? So, okay. You could call the ambulance.

No, that's a good idea. What about fire? Oh, that's a better idea. Cool. That's called both and you know, stuff like that. So what can you do. In the situation that you are in right now to minimize the damage and get over whatever's happening. So if the house is burning yet, okay. Fire first, then, so seek help, then see what you can do is can you stop the fire if it's a small enough, if not, can you rescue people, without putting yourself into danger those kind of things.

So there are logical things that you would do and you, want to do the same with whatever's happening in your life.

Damaged Parents: [00:39:00] I want to ask a question and I, I'm afraid to ask the question also,

Stephan Neff: [00:39:04] Don't straight out,

Damaged Parents: [00:39:06] it's a slippery slope. It's a

Stephan Neff: [00:39:08] go, go, go,

Damaged Parents: [00:39:11] What is the difference between dependency and addiction and how does somebody know.

Stephan Neff: [00:39:16] Yeah. Dependency is typically a nowadays is it's really a physical dependency. So in other words, if you're an asthmatic and you don't get your inhaler, you're in trouble. So you're dependent on the inhaler. If you are diabetic and you don't get your insulin, you're in trouble. So you're dependent on the insulin.

If you're an alcoholic and you don't get your alcohol. Well, guess what? You're in trouble because within 24 hours you get a mixture of a nasty tummy bug and then nasty, cold all happen at the same time. And that's called withdrawal. So your body is used to the alcohol and if it doesn't get it, you're in trouble, that's withdrawal.

So that you're physically dependent on the alcohol. Addiction is a complete change in your behavior. And as essentially, you're quite happy to push a little old lady over, to get her money so that you can buy your drug and buy your alcohol. You do a lot of things in order to focus on the alcohol  your whole focus in life will change from beautiful things to alcohol.

And there was the whole set of behaviors. Like, you know, I was a very busy man when I was a high functioning alcoholic in the morning, I was hiding that I was hung over then I was hiding that I was thinking about the alcohol. Then I was hiding that I was buying the alcohol. Then I hid the alcohol. Then I hid the drinking.

Then I hid that I was drunken for fuck's sake. I was busy, honestly, this was a full-time job hiding things. Okay. So this is the reality. So addiction is very much a disease that affects your reward and memory system. Whilst dependence is nowadays typically a mode of physical dependence on the alcohol.

But your body is used to the alcohol.

Damaged Parents: [00:41:16] So an alcoholic would be physically dependent on the alcohol while at the same time being driven by those negative emotions to get rid of them. It sounds like am I kind of going down the right road there in the understanding.

Stephan Neff: [00:41:34] Absolutely you're accepted. You point out to two aspects of alcoholism, but it's, it's actually such a deeply ingrained disease. It's a tiny little molecule that. Affects every single neuron in our head and it changes things. It messes things. It's a little Ninja that sneaking in the nooks and crannies of our brains and is completely changing things.

It changes the reward system. It gives you a huge dopamine rush. The first time you really get that kick and you think, wow, that's beautiful. When you have a bit of a shy person, you suddenly are outgoing. There is no more worry in the world and that can be intoxicating and overwhelmingly beautiful.

And you will always chase that first high, that first feeling. And it will never come again. Unfortunately, I can't tell you that, that he was like at the top. I mean, rushes later down, but they're nowhere as beautifully high and that's a tricky bit. So we as alcoholics, and, or as addicts, shall I say, because the same applies to  eating disorders, the rush that you get from aw what a beautiful piece of cheesecake that was, in reality, that piece was actually very round because you ate the whole cheesecake kind of a thing.

So, you know, , it's that kind of,  a negative coping mechanisms. It's the same thing. It just, uh, yeah, it's weird.

Damaged Parents: [00:43:05] Yeah. There's no more alcohol. I am certain you found joy and you've found maybe not the same high, but a different, maybe better feeling that happens in your life. I'm not sure. I'm not sure if I even worded that. Right. But I think you get what I'm asking.

Stephan Neff: [00:43:24] Okay. So I think what I want to say in response to that is initially, okay. I can only say about myself, but I think it applies to many, many other addicts. When you suddenly stop using you are empty. I was an empty shell of a man. My emotions were blunted. My, certainly my joy there was nothing there that gave me joy.

I was empty and I learned to put micro habits in place to make sure that I look after myself. And after a while, after several months, I had a strawberry from a street vendor and a bit into that strawberry, and it was the most beautiful strawberry I've ever tasted. And I thought, what the fuck? Where do the strawberries come from it as?

Wow. Wow. And ultimately it was the first time that my joy had come back. So my body was no longer looking for the artificial high that dopamine that would have been checked out  by the alcohol or by my behavior of drinking. Instead, it actually saw that strawberry for what it is that beautiful piece of fruit.

And then there was this sunset, which, wow, this is a beautiful sunset. Or even better a sunrise hell, I haven't seen a sunrise for, I dunno, many, many decades because by that time I was deeply pissed or a half comatose and to actually be awake when the sun rises and to see the color changing is the most beautiful thing.

So suddenly you start seeing new joy coming in response to actually beautiful things. And there is no guilt, no shame attached to it. And you can just say, wow, Hey, this is was cool. Maybe I want to do that again. You just swim a kilometer or two kilometers. Damn. I just did that and you think, damn, no, I didn't.

And did you check? Yes, you did. And that is wow. And so there's this kind of thing. So little, little victories, little achievements suddenly trigger. This joy to smile on your face, which you realize, wow. And that's when the emotions come back, that's where you start, where you know that the balance of dopamine and glutamate and all the other things that it was so deranged in the disease of alcoholism, when they come to a new balance and you start to achieve an even keel and with that you can start moving forward and that's beautiful, but that took many months for me, many months, probably a year and a bit before I was at that level, until then it was a weird, strange, hard slog, but I did the little steps and.

It worked.

Damaged Parents: [00:46:23] That's fantastic. It sounds like. Even though it's hard at the beginning and it sounds like you'd go into a little bit of a crevasse

a bit yeah. Then you come out.

Stephan Neff: [00:46:35] Exactly, but it was weird because here I was in this protected bubble in rehab and I worked really, really hard. So there I came out after four weeks and I expect fairies and Rose pedals , in my path, because of the work that I've done, And guess what? You come home.

Your family has no idea what you have done. They just wonder, Oh my God, will he lie again? Where is the next vodka bottle hidden kind of thing. They expect the same behavior because you know, you can save what you want. Ah, darling, I will be clean now. Well, for crying out loud, how do you know that an alcoholic is lying when his lips are moving.

That is the reality. So they heard it all. So I could say what I wanted. It was time to do living amends, to shut up and actually lift away that you want to live. And by that you can live a life that you can be proud of. And that was something I did. And that was initially strange, really, really, really strange, but I wouldn't have it any other way, but I wants to warn guys out there. It is your family. They are still there. They have not seen the new you, and they don't believe the new you because yeah, it's too good to be true.

Damaged Parents: [00:47:51] Like they have to learn to trust that the new you is there to stay.

Stephan Neff: [00:47:56] Absolutely. And that's, exactly where the journey for them begins because  everything has changed for you and you will put completely different rules into the game now, and that your family needs to get used to that.

And your family for them. It's a huge learning curve as well. And it's a beautiful learning curve because certainly my boys, genetically, they certainly a higher predisposition to become alcoholics because they've got the same super dopamine response that I have just hello, daddy's genes and mommy's genes.

Mummy's not so good either. But they have actually seen how we deal with shit now. So in the last seven years, they have seen us. Fighting, but making up. They've seen as preventing fights, by being honest and open about our emotions, they have seen us deescalating scenarios, very effectively, and they have developed insights that many of their peers, many of their friends have no bloody clue about.

So their friends are on the back foot because their parents never did the hard work. Therefore their friends could never see how you can live a life beautiful and to the fullest without any addictive substance or addictive behavior. So therefore my boys whilst they're on the back foot with the genes

they are very much miles ahead of others. When it comes to their daily emotions, their daily behavior, all these kinds of things.

Damaged Parents: [00:49:29] And I got real life experience with you and the shift in you. They got to see what happens, which is really neat. Okay. Three things you want listeners to walk away from this podcast? We may have already talked about them. We may not have just three tips. You want to give people  today

Stephan Neff: [00:49:48] Hmm,

Number one, the past does not equal the future. Whatever you have done in the past, that happened in the past. Right now, you have got a chance to turn the page in your book. You're writing this book. You will write the next chapter. So make it worthwhile. It is your choice. Number two, whatever has occurred.

Nothing is as dark as it seems. Yes, you have done things that were not so nice in the past and at this where the amends are coming in, but ultimately whatever has happened, it has happened. You are probably not a bad person, but you have done bad things as part of your addiction, as part of you being an idiot, that is just human behavior.

But that doesn't mean to say that you can't turn your life around. Lastly, you might feel that there is absolutely no hope for you that there's no help. That life is really, really, really dark for you. That is not true. That is a lie that alcohol and depression and other negative emotions will tell you, but these are malicious lies.

There is help. There is hope. I have turned my life around with the help of my family and with the help of some really clever people. Everyone who changed my life, they were typically there one at one day or the other. They had been in the same boat as me. In rehab, in, the beautiful coppery hospital, as it was, then there, everyone was an addict, every single caseworker, every single nurse, et cetera, they were all addicts.

They were all bullshitters and you can't bullshit a bullshitter. So that was actually really, really good. Whatever set that scene that they had done it and worse. That's a fact. So if you finally come to a point in your life where you think God, is it really worthwhile, this is actually it.

A good point because you're so far out of your comfort zone that you want to take action. And if you come to this point, is it really worthwhile? My answer to you is yes, yes, it is worthwhile because there's help out there. There are people out there who are in the same boat as you and who have found the strength to continue living and who have changed our lives.

So if you can look at their lives and see what worked for them, you will find answers for yourself. You are not alone. However, dark it is in your life. You're not alone. There is hope and you will get better.

Damaged Parents: [00:52:31] Fantastic. Thank you so much, Stephan Neff for coming on the show today. I'm so glad you were here.

Stephan Neff: [00:52:38] aw it's an absolute honor and it is humbling to be in your presence because here you are, fighting, you're positive. You are giving hope for others, and it's such a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful mission that you are on. So thank you so much for making me part of your mission. I hope we can both plant the seeds into the minds of our listeners here and gift them the hope that they deserve whatever's happening right now.

Guys, don't give up, stay strong and take those little steps every single day, gratitude, humility, authenticity, and learn to love yourself, scars, warts, and all it is you. Give yourself a break and make the most out of it.

 Damaged Parents: [00:53:25] Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Relatively Damaged by Damaged Parents. We've really enjoyed talking to Stephen about how, even as a doctor, he tried to drown his sorrows in alcohol. We especially liked when he spoke of addiction from the perspective of a pain physician to unite with other damaged people, connect with us on Facebook, look for damaged parents.

We'll be here next week still relatively damaged See, you then