Episode 64: Fear to fulfillment- Capping PTSD

Joanne Williams

Joanne S. Williams, LCSW, has helped 1000's of clients in her 30 years as a Licensed Mental Health Professional, to move from fear to fulfillment as she shares simple and immediately effective ways to calm anxiety, tension and worry.

Specialize in certifying clients for an Emotional Support and Psychiatric Service Dogs as a game-changer for those struggling to navigate today's daunting times with anxiety or depression. They can keep their animals with them in housing by law and fly with a Psychiatric Service Dog, with today’s new regulations, as well as go with them anywhere they go, to feel reassured and calmed.

Social media and contact information:

https://www.facebook.com/esaevaluation16
https://www.linkedin.com/feed/
https://www.pinterest.com/anxiety_simplified/
https://www.instagram.com/anxietySimplified.net4u
https://twitter.com/AnxietySimplify

Podcast transcript:

[00:00:00] Damaged Parents: Welcome to the Relatively Damaged Podcast by Damaged Parents. We're anxious, depressed, worried people come to learn. Maybe just, maybe we're all a little bit damaged. Someone once told me it's safe to assume. 50% of the people I meet are struggling and feel wounded in some way. I would venture to say it's closer to 100%.

Every one of us is either currently struggling or has struggled with something that made us feel less than like we aren't good enough. We aren't capable. We are relatively damaged. And that's what we're here to talk about. In my ongoing investigation of the damage self, I want to better understand how others view their own challenges. Maybe it's not so much about the damage. Maybe it's about our perception and how we deal with it.

There is a deep commitment to becoming who we are meant to be. How do you do that? How do you find balance after a damaging experience? My hero is the damaged person. The one who faces seemingly insurmountable odds to come out on the other side, whole. Those who stared directly into the face of adversity with unyielding persistence to discover their purpose. These are the people who inspire me to be more fully me.

Not in spite of my trials. But because of them. Let's hear from another hero. Today's topic includes sensitive material, which may not be appropriate for children. This podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended as advice. The opinions expressed here are strictly those of the person who gave them. Today we're going to talk with Joanne Williams she has many roles in her life mother, Licensed Clinical Social Worker, lover of animals and more. We'll talk about how she struggled with anxiety and overwhelm and how she found health and healing let's talk

 Welcome back to Relatively Damaged today. We have Joanne Williams. She's an LCSW Licensed Mental Health Professional, who specializes in certifying clients for emotional support in psychiatric service dogs. It's a game changer. thank you so much for being on the show today with me Joanne.

[00:02:16] Joanne Williams: Thank you for having me love it.

[00:02:18] Damaged Parents: Absolutely. Now, just before the show, I posed a silly question. I thought, no, there's no such thing as a silly question, but I like to, , when it creates a surprising answer, I'm always like, oh, that was really good. So I had asked, do you certify the animals? And you said, no, it's the person will you tell the listeners about that because maybe they're just as confused as I am.

[00:02:40] Joanne Williams: I'll tell you. I think they are well, I'll start at the beginning. They really started with the fair housing act law about 50 years ago. And that was about emotional support animals to live with you and housing, and it could be any animal as long as it helped the person. So this is about that person to live an easier life with their daily functioning, like sleeping better, concentrate, better, something like that.

And then came along the airlines law about 36 years ago. and that was about bringing your emotional support animal on the plane with you. to calm you. So it was the same kind of stipulation. It was about, that the person needed this and then came along the Americans with disabilities act about 30 years ago, which was much more broader for public places.

Any place you want to take your animal And now it is just dogs. So the airlines just adopted that in January. So that'll change for a lot. And so the certification for emotional support animals is the person needs the dog to calm them. So it's about the person and psychiatric service dogs are about both because the person has to have a diagnosis.

The wrist symptoms that the dog helps with. So the dog is part of that picture and they do get to be certified as a psychiatric service dog because they're helping with their symptoms, but the person has to have a diagnosis. So maybe that's for both of them that they get certified.

[00:04:08] Damaged Parents: Well, like I know in California, or at least in the county, I live in California. It's just an affidavit that you signed that says it's a service dog. There's really no licensing or anything out here for that.

for that.

[00:04:21] Joanne Williams: it's a federal laws. So the states have to go by the federal law. They can make them, Less restrictive and more places, but they can't make it more. Yeah, there is nothing that says that there is no registry. That was one of the biggest pieces. I think of misinformation that's been out there for a while, especially around emotional support animals that they had to be registered with.

Like some justice department or whatever department. There is no such thing as a federal registry, some counties do ask you to, however, there can be a need for verification, housing, other places going into places there can, they can ask for verification. And that's part of what I give is a letter.

Or a little ID card that is verifying that I have certified them with that diagnosis for psychiatric service dog. Cause it's a little bit different medical, I think you're talking about, and that's more the traditional service dog for blindness or for seizures or something medical. And I think that's what most people think about.

When they think about a service dog they don't think about symptoms that people have emotionally for anxiety, depression, some of posttraumatic stress disorder that they would need a dog for. But that's what this has been expanded to because as a lot of emotional issues and kind of been happening in the last year, a lot more stress and with wars going on as well.

We have a lot of veterans coming back and their dogs have been instrumental to bring them back into their families after they were really with their so-called army or Navy family. So it's kind of a reentry for them to have their animal with them. So there's a lot of ways our dogs can help.

[00:06:10] Damaged Parents: Yeah, it, I mean, it seems like there is a special connection. Between dogs and humans. Can you even begin to describe or explain ? I don't know, why that might be.

[00:06:26] Joanne Williams: I know, it is funny. There's so much good research on it though. And the, one of the reasons why one of that quote, you just said is gamechanger. That's where my clients having an animal with them is a game changer in so many people's lives, because a lot of the people that I do treat in counseling, or to get them certified.

They have such severe anxiety or it could be depression or other things, but most of them have anxiety. Maybe they don't even want to leave the house because they're just afraid of the world in so many different levels. So having a dog reassures them. They feel love. There's unconditional. You know how if you have a dog or if the listeners have a dog, when you return home, you've had a bad day.

You walk in that door, that little dogs whole body is wagging. They just cannot wait to see you. You are just their world. And when somebody respects you and loves you and cares about you so much, it actually is a hormone. That is like a love bond hormone that gets excreted. And it's the same one between a mother and a child.

And that is what the bond can be. It's something we can't even see, but it is absolutely there.

[00:07:44] Damaged Parents: Yeah, when you were just talking, I was thinking of how sometimes I've noticed animals will take on the, some of the traits of the human.

[00:07:53] Joanne Williams: Yeah.

[00:07:54] Damaged Parents: you seen that? And , what is your thought on that?

[00:07:57] Joanne Williams: That's a good question. I'm not sure I've ever been asked that one. I know. It's funny to see those pictures and the dog looks like the human or their hair or their face

[00:08:07] Damaged Parents: Right or not even just that, but like the

behaviors. the behavior traits, like, when someone's really anxious or that person tends to be anxious, then their animal seems to be more anxious. sometimes, I don't know if maybe I'm just looking for

[00:08:21] Joanne Williams: Well, I don't know. I think there is something to it and I don't really can't really quote any science on that, but this would be more of an opinion, but I think animals learn. They'd see, they learn our behaviors. And I think they have better emotional sense than their smell.

They said they can smell fear. So I wonder if they are just picking up on our emotions or our whatever's going on with us situationally. And then that is what they're responding to. And maybe because you're like, you're saying, if somebody is anxious, the dog is anxious, but maybe it literally is. They are responding to that.

But you know, the other thing I've heard and I don't know that this is true, so don't hold me to it, but that dog will even take on like sickness or they'll take on other things that their owners have away from them. So they can take away some of the negative energy, even of people in their households.

So that, and because they're so sensitive, I think they can take on more energies of ours. So it may be unseen. And I think that's why I can't really say exactly what it is.

[00:09:34] Damaged Parents: Yeah. Like it happens in that energy field that,

[00:09:37] Joanne Williams: Yes.

[00:09:38] Damaged Parents: that happens it's like the fish in water, the fish goes looking for purpose and comes back and doesn't realize, you know, ask , the old wise man and the old wise man says, yeah, I just call it water.

You're swimming in it.

[00:09:51] Joanne Williams: but it is what it is, we it's all around us as what we get used to, but yeah, it's so true. I, you know, and I find that sometimes. Dogs are just so much more in tune almost in especially psychiatric service dogs, they can notice. And I don't know if this is a smell, but they can notice that like with a client that has anxiety attacks.

or panic attacks. They will notice before the person does that. They're getting wound up and getting anxious and that's why they'll respond and go over to the person and either put their head in their lap. Some will just put their paws on their lap, or maybe they'll lick them or, do something at them to kind of like you're getting anxious.

Hey. And it will actually help them lower or become more aware

[00:10:38] Damaged Parents: If they're paying attention, right. If the person is paying attention or no

[00:10:42] Joanne Williams: But the person is not paying attention and the dog's noticing it. So the dog comes over and makes them pay attention because they're not noticing that their anxiety is getting higher and higher. So the dog is part of that recognizing and responding as part of the task that they're trained to help them with.

[00:11:02] Damaged Parents: Yeah,

So it's like the dog just by nature of coming over and interrupting the thought or whatever's happening. It's like a shift of perspective. And because of that shift of perspective, it distracts the patient or the person from what's happening in their head. And then I'm thinking if they're really lucky they could go back and investigate what was happening in my mind.

[00:11:26] Joanne Williams: Ah, yeah, that would be the best case scenario to increase their self awareness of what that patterning is. That's getting them into the panic attack. Absolutely. That would be the best possible scenario. However,

[00:11:46] Damaged Parents: Hi.

[00:11:46] Joanne Williams: It does take a little bit of work. It does take a little self-awareness it does take what to do next.

And I think that's what a lot of times I teach whether the skills in that, learning that self-awareness to understand your thought patterns or your fear patterns, basically that we get into a panic attack.

[00:12:04] Damaged Parents: Right. And I think that Sometimes that would be hard, especially if someone's only known anxiety or depression or whatever it is for so long that it would probably be really scary to even want to investigate, even though it's causing so much pain.

[00:12:21] Joanne Williams: That is such a good point. And especially, I find that in post-traumatic stress disorder or PTSD that one of the main symptoms is avoidance. So that has scared them, terrified them traumatized them so badly that avoiding is what they do to not have that fear anymore. However a lot of times, like, especially if this started young with a child,

 they will get stunted emotionally at that point and only see it through a child's eyes and not through an adult's perspective of having the skills to be able to treat or look at this differently or know what to do. And so sometimes that is part of the treatment and a dog could be really helpful in that because it does, like you're seeing it makes them aware.

Okay. What was that I was supposed to do? I learned a skill. Okay. I have to do this, this, this, and this to calm myself. Yeah. So sometimes that's really, really important is to be able to especially for a child, be able to understand this pattern and then they can interrupt it.

[00:13:29] Damaged Parents: Well, and I'm thinking when you say child, that you're thinking of a terrified child and not like the child, like, when you hear in scripture, different things like that, or people are like, Oh,

just be like a little child. We're not talking about that happy child we're talking about. They're terrified, scared child. I think.

[00:13:47] Joanne Williams: We wish they were just curiosity and we're that vulnerable innocent child, but they lose that truly when they get that terrified in you. And, you know, there was some bad things happening in their life, in their household to have that kind of terror. They lose that ability to have that innocence, they have to go into protect mode, survival mode.

And that's what some of these reactions are all about. That fear that terror what do I do? And unfortunately from a child's viewpoint and it kind of goes into adult head, what do they do? They pull the covers over their heads. That's about the only coping they know what to do is avoidance. And unless they

learn some skills, they go to counseling or they have somebody teaching them or a loving person in their life to show them a better way. They get stuck there. And it'll just grow into more of an angry out of control adult that might even, not even care anymore because nobody cares about them.

So it's a sad, sad, way. If people do not learn skills, and one of the things I really would like people to know that you, these are about skills, emotional skills, that life skills that you can change your life by learning a different way of looking at something. It can change your perspective.

[00:15:05] Damaged Parents: Yeah. And like you're making me think of is, you know, we go to school to learn certain things in subjects and things like that. And at school we were not taught emotional intelligence. So what you're making me really realize just even in what you said is.

Emotional intelligence is something we learned. It is not something inherent. And I think we make this assumption from a society's perspective, that emotional intelligence is just there.

[00:15:30] Joanne Williams: Or supposed to be there

[00:15:32] Damaged Parents: supposed to know what to do with this. I don't know what to do with this sometimes though,

[00:15:38] Joanne Williams: and, what's even scarier. We learn it from our parents.

And if you did not have a healthy household to learn how to love, how to care, how to show relationship, boundaries, how to give, how to take, , how to care in that way. So you don't get all anxious. Cause I don't know what's going to happen using that curiosity, like a child and exploring, and, and having that life where you can feel free.

[00:16:02] Damaged Parents: Yeah.

[00:16:03] Joanne Williams: It's very tricky. If you don't and there's nobody that does. And that's why I think you're relatively damaged is such a nice name because we all have something. There is no such thing. I found but I am in the mental health field to have truly a hundred percent healthy and functional family. None of us make it out in a way that's a hundred percent functional.

[00:16:26] Damaged Parents: someone I knew a long time ago said to me, , no child escapes, childhood unscathed. So if that is the case then aren't we all relatively damaged. I think we're on our way to recognize in that, like that there's a big wave and it's coming, crashing down, but I can't wait for it to just, if they, you know, for everybody to go, oh, that's what that is.

[00:16:49] Joanne Williams: and from my experience or what I've seen, , I've been a mental health professional for 30 years, and I've seen that probably only 3% of the population is really. ready for therapy or to learn those emotional skills. Cause I, see it like college, you know, people pay for college and I feel like you have to go to counseling and pay for it to get those kinds of skills.

And most people aren't willing to because. I think sometimes people are just kind of stuck in a rut. This is good enough. It's not really going to get any better. And that relationship is good enough. And I don't know, it's too hard to get a divorce or change things. I'll just kind of suck it up and live in misery.

Is okay. And I would really encourage people don't accept that have wonderful feelings, curiosity, stretch yourself, grow, do not accept that kind of thought of just living in that

[00:17:55] Damaged Parents: In that I can also hear, do something that's scares you a little bit every once in a while. Is that what you're nodding your head?

[00:18:04] Joanne Williams: Yeah. You know I saw this coat and I wish I could remember it at the top of my head and I probably won't do it. Right. But it's like, the comfort zone is a beautiful place to be, but there's not much growth there or something. Do you know what it is?

[00:18:17] Damaged Parents: yes, the, my friend actually gave me the quote and I posted it Maybe this is?

what you're talking about. No growth in the comfort zone and no comfort in the growth zone.

[00:18:26] Joanne Williams: Oh, no, that is a little different, but that's good. But in other words, you don't grow when you're comfortable. And so you got to get a little uncomfortable and then when you do, you're growing and people don't get that. Sometimes it's like, oh, this doesn't feel comfortable. I don't want to do it anymore.

That's when you're growing.

[00:18:45] Damaged Parents: Ooh. So maybe take that as a sign. Okay. This feels a little weird. This is scary. And yes. I'm going to still do it, even though I'm terrified or, you know, like it's not a cause it's, not like a saber tooth tiger is right here next to me. It really isn't. It's am I going to put myself out there?

[00:19:05] Joanne Williams: See, and that's the difference between fear and anxiety the fear is that saber tooth tiger is coming at you. You're supposed to have fear. You get ready to run, to freeze like a bunny rabbit or you fight. And those are defenses to survive. But we don't have saber tooth tigers in our society. Thank goodness.

But that means we have anxiety about things that haven't even happened yet. Most of it never happens. One study. I just love, I look at the nine out of 10 things that we worry about never happen. And most of the participants had a hundred percent of their worries. Never

happened. So we're end up being anxious and worried about things that nine out of 10 will never happen. And that one foundational, they called it true fear, worry. You just need to get prepared for. And that should alleviate the anxiety and take it down because that's what the true meaning of anxiety is to get ready, get prepared, feel like you're confident moving forward.

Then you got to let it go and do it anyway.

[00:20:19] Damaged Parents: Right, which is, which can be difficult. Cause sometimes I would say that anxiety and going into panic, it really does feel like that issue or that challenge is probably a saber tooth tiger. And from, from that person's perspective, it probably looks

[00:20:40] Joanne Williams: Feels like. Yeah.

[00:20:42] Damaged Parents: That's what I'm, saying, like from all aspects, this saber tooth tiger is right next to me.

I mean, it's not right next to me right now and that is hard. So how do you help someone shift through that

[00:20:53] Joanne Williams: I'm working on this, right. This moment, as we're talking, I'm going to actually have a on the Roku channel for Raven international I actually have a show that, and I'm gonna give your viewers, at AnxietySimplified.net. There's actually a worksheet that they can go and look at

how do I deal with panic attacks? It's how to conquer them truly. And it's just a three-step system. And that's what I'm doing on the Roku TV this weekend. And I take them through the steps I call it my conscious action plan or cap it consciously be aware like we were talking before, start to get aware of what are you thinking?

Because these become fear habits. You do think the saber tooth tiger is coming, but if you look around, you're not seeing the saber tooth tiger. So you've got to say aware to yourself, you know, wait a minute. This is not really happening. I'm imagining it. And then once you become self-aware, what is that feeling?

I'm really afraid of going to do this public speaking. Okay. Let's go look at this. What do we need to do? And as we consciously become more aware of actions that we need to take, and there's several in this little worksheet, one is a Vegas breathing technique that will calm them in the moment. That you can do any time anywhere, and nobody even knows you're doing it.

It's four inhales through your nose and eight out through your mouth for two minutes, literally sends a calming chemical in and you can do that. And then you start to make a plan just that like we are talking about to help you calm yourself. Once you understand your, patterns. That's what you're dealing with.

An imaginary pattern of fear, do some techniques and they're in there. And then you can make the plan to move forward and you got to create a new habit because what you've done is created a fear habit that's what's taking over and that's where you're not consciously aware anymore. It's just unconscious.

You're doing, doing, doing, or don't do usually because you're avoiding. Once you do the plan, you can start to see your patterns and deal with them and build new ones.

[00:23:02] Damaged Parents: Which leads me to a thing, you know, I've, seen people where the panic or the anxiety just keeps going and going. And going and going. And my understanding is that there is a retriggering, like the actual incident that causes the anxiety in the first place that feeling will dissipate.

if you let it go. Right.

[00:23:22] Joanne Williams: Sit with it. I call it. Yeah, you can sit with it.

[00:23:25] Damaged Parents: Okay. let's say my mind, if I keep going back to like I keep retriggering that sensation. So it's really possible that whether someone realizes it or not, They actually keep doing it to themselves.

[00:23:40] Joanne Williams: They do. That's a beautiful explanation and that's where the conscious comes in because if they were consciously aware that this pattern could have started when they were scared of the Boogeyman at six years old and didn't know what to do, and nobody came to help them and they have this imagined fear.

And now the Boogeyman is their employer or their landlord or whomever. And they think all those people are gonna, do something and scare me all the time. And so they stay in a constant state of fear. And I think the triggering that you're talking about is usually associated with the post-traumatic stress disorder.

There literally can be people, places, and things, or smells that will trigger that part of the brain to start that protection. And that's what can keep this pattern going. Or just like you're saying, I call it it's refocusing back on the fear. So part of this plan, you gotta refocus on something else that you want calmness.

And that's some of the techniques will help refocus these to build that new habit.

[00:24:40] Damaged Parents: Yeah. and I think it's probably takes time and patience

[00:24:44] Joanne Williams: Courage.

[00:24:45] Damaged Parents: Yeah. well, and patient I'm thinking of the family members courage for sure. Courage, for sure. And even for the family members to be patient, because my understanding too, is that PTSD can be triggered at any time in someone's life from an event that happened long, long ago that maybe was not ever properly dealt with or integrated in.

And we don't get to decide whether or not it's traumatic for them or not.

[00:25:15] Joanne Williams: Now because it's their perception of it. Absolutely. and I like what you're saying that the family or spouse think about somebody coming back from war and they do have post-traumatic stress disorder certain noise might make them jump or just smelling something, it will trigger them and it looks like you're crazy.

I'm sorry to say those words, but I mean to somebody else, you're like, what is wrong with you? And I could see where that does take a lot of patience. And then they get a shameful, they feel shame. Oh yeah. I do look like I'm like acting out or doing these things that don't make any sense, but it does because it's triggering.

that fear reaction to protect themselves. And so it can look very odd. And so this is such a syndrome. I would call it in that sense and avoidance. So they stay away from it. Just let me just leave like life out there won't be in any crowds. They won't go in there into anywhere that might have any of those triggers and their life gets very small.

Instead of like understanding this process. It is skill-building and it doesn't have to take that much time. I think people think in therapy, you have to go for years and years, you do not. If your skill building, you can get some skills. And I think it's important that's what I do I give you skills, you work on those skills.

We come back, we talk about what worked, but you are getting better because you're using these skills to confront those imagined fears and pulling them back down to size. And so you can handle it.

[00:26:50] Damaged Parents: So just even from what you're saying, I'm thinking. Sometimes those fears will come back into someone's life or something else will trigger something. But what I heard you say is that you give tools. So it's not that you might not ever go back to therapy again, it's just that you might need to brush up on your tools, so you go back, but the idea is not to spend 10, 20, 15, however many years with the therapist because ideas progression, right.

[00:27:19] Joanne Williams: And you building skills. I can't do anything for your life truly. You have to do it in your life. And so that's, I think people. And maybe it goes back to some of the old ways we used to do therapy with psychoanalyst. You lay on the couch, the more traditional. Tell me about your mother. We don't do that anymore

it's more about what's going on today. Let's build some skills around how we can help this. So you can move into the world, make more money, be happier, have a better relationship or whatever department that is that you want to look into in your life. Let's do that. And what you're going to find any of those skills in any one of those departments of life will help the other ones.

Even in relationships, people say, well, my husband won't come to therapy. Then you come, you learning skills will help the relationship because you will get happier and when you get happier, that changes the dynamics in itself. So there is things you can do, no matter what I mean, sometimes you can't do anything and that's the way it is, but you get happy no matter what happens.

That's always going to be a better outcome.

[00:28:31] Damaged Parents: Yeah. And it sounds like taking responsibility for yourself and not worrying about making the other person better is also probably really important because like you said earlier, even as a therapist, you can't make your clients do anything they don't want to do.

[00:28:48] Joanne Williams: Nope. And it's exactly that, but I'm telling you, I've seen so many people, I would say this kind of teasingly, but that I find happiness is the best revenge in divorce, watching your ex get happy. It's like, grr you know, that you feel like. I'm all right, without you. I'm doing good. I am actually moving forward in my life.

I don't need this anchor tied to my ankle anymore, pulling around. I really didn't need that in my life. I can be happy without you and to seeing somebody happy, is really important for your children, too. Children need that. Also they need the role models and know what to do. So happiness trumps everything.

[00:29:34] Damaged Parents: Yeah. It really like that internal peaceful joy is what I call it. yeah.

[00:29:39] Joanne Williams: Stress is no fun.

[00:29:41] Damaged Parents: I'm just thinking of that peace I'm that peace and when you get there, it's so nice and peaceful and it doesn't matter what anyone else is doing.

[00:29:53] Joanne Williams: You can still find it.

[00:29:55] Damaged Parents: Yeah. And I mean, sometimes the question comes to me, you know, where is it? And it's inside of me. It's not inside of anyone else. And no one else can really give it to me.

[00:30:07] Joanne Williams: And it's not outside of you. Cause I think that's where people look, oh, I'll get more money. I'll get a better job. I will get a bigger boat house. That's going to make me happy. And, you know, it's funny they get them and they're like for 10 minutes. Oh yeah. That was fun. But it didn't fill that hole inside. It's the hole inside.

You got to fill to define the happiness or take the stuff out of the hole, maybe to sometimes to find the happiness. Maybe it's covered up.

[00:30:33] Damaged Parents: I liked that I liked that idea, dig out the cobwebs, you know, and fill it with some, potting soil and the seed.

[00:30:43] Joanne Williams: Yeah, new seeds.

[00:30:44] Damaged Parents: Yeah. Yeah. Like, Yeah,

That's pretty fantastic. I love that you have this great perspective on anxiety and PTSD and the impact that the animals and the dogs really give to the client., I'm willing to bet that there are a lot of people out there with emotional support dogs that don't even realize that's what the animal is doing for them. I mean, , so I think what you were saying or what I was hearing earlier about the certification is that.

There's a housing thing or that you need to go on a plane or this, But, I mean, anyone can have an emotional service dog it's whether or not, if you need to go somewhere, improve it.

[00:31:30] Joanne Williams: That's right because we know our animals help us. And there's so much medical research that shows they do yeah. Animals help us, period, no matter whether they are emotional support or whatever services that they already do, we know that. And that's why so many people got dogs during COVID and isolation.

I mean, they have been shown to help with depression and isolation and even dementia calming people. So, I mean, there's just so many ways and you're right. You don't have to have a certified to help you. you know, there's a lot more, it seems like housing that they say no pets, or they have exorbitant fees.

Now it's almost like they really are trying to either make more money or limit animals. And, you know, for somebody to have to get rid of their animal that just freaks me out. I don't, it's like given when my kids away, you know, it's just like, I can't, I would have to move. I could not do that. And they do not have to, if this animal helps them with the daily functioning.

[00:32:30] Damaged Parents: So I think what I hear you saying is like, when someone is in a rental situation and they want to keep that dog and they're moving and the rental place is charging. Who knows what , just for you to have an animal. And like you said, the price it can be exorbitant that then, yeah, it makes sense to get certified, especially if they're helping you in that daily function, whatever that is.

[00:32:52] Joanne Williams: Absolutely. And then they can't charge any pet fees, pet, rents, and things, and you get the benefits and they can go where you go at, around the house, you know, so they are no longer considered pets. They really are considered assistance animals or emotional. And with emotional support animals or ESA, it can be any animal.

So I did a rabbit today.

[00:33:12] Damaged Parents: Oh,

[00:33:13] Joanne Williams: But it's the petting it's the looking in those little eyes and they can just feel the calming. This little bunny helped this person concentrate better, especially as he was working in college and he's working from home and gone through COVID and he's gone through some other stuff, but this little bunny was enough in his life that he could

feel better and calmed and he could concentrate better as that daily functioning. So it can be where planes or other places does have to be a dog. Now it's pretty strict, only dogs, but emotional support can be any animal in housing.

[00:33:50] Damaged Parents: I love that because it's just so, so needed. You know, Somebody asked me earlier today or they posed the question. I thought it was really neat. You know, If you can take your service dog with you, why can't you take your caregiver with you? There is an expense for that. And I thought that is a really great.

question, cause if I go to Disneyland, I've got to pay for a caregiver. If you have caregivers, you have to pay for your caregiver. If you go to the movie theater. Yeah. And I thought, wow, that's a really beautiful question. What are your thoughts , on that? Just because I'm interested in.

[00:34:20] Joanne Williams: I think you need to work on that because you're right. Because in the ADA law, like for housing airlines, they cannot make extra charges for you to go, with your animals someplace. So why shouldn't it be, if you need a caregiver and you have a disability, it should be the same thing.

[00:34:42] Damaged Parents: I think so,

too.

[00:34:44] Joanne Williams: That needs to be included in the ADA law.

[00:34:46] Damaged Parents: Yeah, I think so too.

[00:34:48] Joanne Williams: You got to go to Washington

[00:34:50] Damaged Parents: Maybe we'll see, that will be exciting.

[00:34:55] Joanne Williams: and you know what? I don't think, I never thought that before.

[00:34:59] Damaged Parents: I hadn't, I just knew and I was upset about it. I hadn't thought of it from that perspective.

[00:35:05] Joanne Williams: Because one of the symptoms, you have to be life-limiting whatever your disability, it has to be life limiting. Right? And so what the animal does they help you with these life limiting symptoms. And so what you're saying is the same thing your caregiver helps you with your life limiting symptoms.

[00:35:24] Damaged Parents: Yes.

[00:35:24] Joanne Williams: So it would be the same thing.

[00:35:27] Damaged Parents: Yes. I would think so.

[00:35:28] Joanne Williams: I think you're onto something.

[00:35:30] Damaged Parents: I think so too.

[00:35:32] Joanne Williams: Are Or your friend was.

[00:35:33] Damaged Parents: Well, no, we were having a conversation. I'm like, I don't get it. It doesn't make sense. Why can I take my dog? And I have to pay for my caregiver? But then she posed the question directly to me and I was like, oh yeah, that really doesn't make sense.

Now that you pose the question in a succinct way, I'm like, oh, okay.

[00:35:52] Joanne Williams: sometimes I think some of the things that they do, like, especially with emotional support animals, it's almost like they try to put limits around some of these things. So people don't take advantage or so they don't do somethings. And that kind of comes to mind. As you said that, I wonder.

I don't care. I think that still needs to be in there, but that's where the verification process would come in. That you might have to verify your need for that person. For that. Like, I think at Walt Disney world, like, you know, to come in there because there is an expense that they are not getting for that, but if it's verified by a letter or something

[00:36:33] Damaged Parents: Or you clearly have a physical disability because I don't think, you know, if I show up and my, hands don't work. Right,

Come on.

[00:36:41] Joanne Williams: Or in a wheelchair. Yes. And you need somebody to push that wheel that doesn't make any sense.

[00:36:48] Damaged Parents: No.

[00:36:49] Joanne Williams: I think that, I don't know that anybody's brought that up or, a lot of times. Yeah. Well, I know this with the airlines, what they went through last year or so they had a time when they took comments from the public about certain things. But, you know, if you go on one of the .gov sites would probably ada.gov or whatever.

I bet you can put a suggestion or submit something there. But I think that needs to be talked about.

[00:37:15] Damaged Parents: Yeah, well, I guess I'm starting the conversation then

[00:37:19] Joanne Williams: You are

[00:37:20] Damaged Parents: cause I'd been upset about it for a long time. And now here we are having this and Yeah, here we go. Time to jump off another cliff for me.

[00:37:29] Joanne Williams: It is for a lot of people because , I would see how, like you just said, I'm not going to go to Disney World or whatever because of the added expense. And that is really part of the ADA law that it really is not supposed to limit you in that sense that you don't go and do things. If you

 like a dog

[00:37:48] Damaged Parents: Even at the hotels I have to pay for another person,

[00:37:51] Joanne Williams: Same thing at a

hotel, you don't have to pay for the dog

[00:37:53] Damaged Parents: you know, Right. , well, this kind of took an interesting turn on podcast here. Didn't it. Now we're both like, what can we do about this?

[00:38:02] Joanne Williams: And I will remember this and I will do anything I can add as it comes up or if I talk or I see that forum or whatever, I will put that out there too, because that is not fair.

[00:38:13] Damaged Parents: Yeah, it doesn't make sense. It's already a lot more expensive to have a disability. There are so many other I need that need to be covered. So, It does actually limit my ability even more so to go out into public and do things because of that, those other expenses. Yeah. And it's not like I can say, oh, caregiver, we're going to go here.

Why don't you pay for that?

[00:38:37] Joanne Williams: Cause it's a burden on them too.

[00:38:39] Damaged Parents: Yeah.

[00:38:40] Joanne Williams: It's a burden and that's one of the words in the law, like for accommodation at work or whatever , they have to accommodate, unless it's an undue burden. But it's the opposite here. It's like, this is an undue burden on the person with the disability and that is not supposed to be that way.

Yeah, no, I don't think so. So we'll have to, make some noise. Why don't we just make some noise?

Yes, let's do

[00:39:06] Damaged Parents: It might go slow, but we'll we can do

it.

[00:39:09] Joanne Williams: it's okay.

[00:39:10] Damaged Parents: It's going to take time. good

[00:39:13] Joanne Williams: Slowly is good. I think that's when the lasting change is actually happening. When you do it just slowly step by step.

[00:39:20] Damaged Parents: Right for sure. Well, I definitely I'm definitely grateful that I got to have this conversation with you and, from my perspective, things happen for a reason. And how is it that someone said put it so succinctly when, after I said what the challenge was into a question. And then I asked you the question and I'm meeting with you and you work with service animals.

I mean, sometimes the universe, God, whatever you choose to believe in works in mysterious ways. And I think how today happened was just perfect. And okay. Now I do ask my guests, so three tips or tools that because you've already given some, so that just pop into your mind that you want to make sure people walk away from this podcast with.

[00:40:01] Joanne Williams: Number one is I think you need to reach out if you need help, do not be reluctant. Always do that and know that there's an 800 number 1 (800) 273-8255. That's a hotline helpline 24 7 anytime. You want to talk and I encourage everybody to put that in your phone, because even if it's not you feeling maybe overwhelmed in the moment, you could give it to a friend because suicide rates right now for teenagers are skyrocketing.

It is obscene and it's wrong. , because kids aren't reaching out and they're shamed, I think, and they're overwhelmed with COVID related isolation. These changes didn't get to go to graduation. They just, and then what do they do? They don't know what to do with these emotions. So please have that available for somebody else, even if it's not for you.

1 (800) 273-8255, and you can put it in your phone and hit that button and just hand your phone to a friend. So I that's certainly one of 'em I want to encourage people to go to my website: AnxietySimplified.Net. And there is a freebie there that I think is really important for anybody that does have panic attacks.

And it is a worksheet that will take you through these three steps that I was just telling you about. So you can look at this about doing it yourself, and if you cannot conquer your panic attacks yourself. That's going to be a clue to you. You need some help, also take it to your therapist. And if you don't know how to find a therapist, look on the back of your insurance card, there's an 800 number and you call that number.

And if you want to talk to somebody. You can ask for a therapist or a counselor. If you want medication, you asked for a doctor, you would get a psychiatrist, the specialist for those kinds of meds, you can reach out to somebody like that. And then take that worksheet in with you because you would have already done some work with it, and you can learn yourself so strategies or skills on how to conquer your own anxiety and panic attacks.

[00:42:05] Damaged Parents: Okay, one more.

[00:42:06] Joanne Williams: Well, that was kind of snuck in two in one, but

[00:42:09] Damaged Parents: you want another?

Okay. Sure. Why not? You

got another.

[00:42:13] Joanne Williams: that, if you would like to find out more about if your dog or any animal for emotional support animal to pre-qualify. You can go to our other website, ESApros ESA is for emotional support animal ESApros.com.

And there's a prequalification free, you know, form to see if you would qualify and what are the requirements so that if you're thinking about this and the other thing make sure you talk to somebody. If you go online and you research, make sure you talk to a professional before you send money or, fill out forms or something.

You need to have somebody backing you. That is a licensed therapist. Don't just give it to somebody and expect them. They need to be there for you because they would be your therapist.

[00:42:57] Damaged Parents: Yeah. And I also want to reiterate that at this time, there is no national place where you need to register. If you find those places online, do not worry about it. It is not true. You're fine without it. And I'm so glad I got to have you on the show and the listeners got to hear your story today.

Thank you so much, Joanne.

[00:43:18] Joanne Williams: Thank you

[00:43:19] Damaged Parents: Thank you for listening to this week's episode of relatively damaged by damage to parents. We've really enjoyed talking to Joanne about how she learned to cope with her anxiety and how she helps others get the support they need. We especially liked when she explained the importance of emotional support animals. To unite with other damage to people connect with us on tik tok look for DamagedParents We'll be here next week still relatively damaged see you then