Episode 63: Leaving a Toxic Relationship

Shawna Brinley

Shawna Brinley is a survivor of an 11 year very toxic relationship. The abuse was mainly mental, emotional and financial but turned physical toward the end. It was by the grace of God an emergency back surgery that she got out. Once out, she realized how messed up she was and searched for a counselor to start healing. After a long process of learning to trust not just others but herself she finally started feeling like herself again period now she is in an incredible marriage and enjoying life with her son, husband and family and friends.

Social media/contact information:

https://www.facebook.com/changingtheperspective

https://www.instagram.com/changing_the_perspective

 Podcast Transcript:

Damaged Parents: [00:00:00] It's the Relatively Damaged Podcast by Damaged Parents where broken, abused, fractured people come to learn. Maybe just, maybe we're all a little bit damaged. Someone once told me it's safe to assume. 50% of the people I meet are struggling and feel wounded in some way. I would venture to say it's closer to 100%.

Every one of us is either currently struggling or has struggled with something that made us feel less than like we aren't good enough. We aren't capable. We are relatively damaged. And that's what we're here to talk about. In my ongoing investigation of the damaged self. I want to better understand how others view their own challenges. Maybe it's not so much about the damage. Maybe it's about our perception and how we deal with it. There is a deep commitment to becoming who we are meant to be. How do you do that? How do you find balance after a damaging experience? My hero is the damaged person, the one who faces seemingly insurmountable odds to come out on the other side, whole.

Those who stare directly into the face of adversity within yielding persistence to discover their purpose. These are the people who inspire me to be more fully me. Not in spite of my trials, but because of them, let's hear from another hero. Today's topic includes sensitive material, which may not be appropriate for children.

This podcast is provided for informational purposes only, and is not intended as advice. The opinions expressed here are strictly those of the person who gave them.

Today, we're going to talk with Shauna Brinley. She has many roles in her life, mother, daughter, wife, and way more. We'll talk about how she was able to leave an 11 year very toxic relationship and how she found health and healing let's talk

Welcome Shauna to Relatively Damaged by Damaged Parents. And we're so glad you're here today.

Shawna Brinley: [00:02:00] Thank you. I appreciate you having me.

Damaged Parents: [00:02:02] Yeah, of course. We'd love talking about struggle on this show and how to overcome it.

Shawna Brinley: [00:02:07] Yes, everybody goes through it.I

Damaged Parents: [00:02:10] And you know, the funny thing though, sometimes I think even though. I know why go through it. I forget that everyone goes through it. Do you have that same problem? And if so, what do you do?

Shawna Brinley: [00:02:23] Yeah. So you tend to like, Oh, this is just me. I don't want to bring anyone else into it, but then if you really think about it, everybody has struggle and everybody relates on some level. And if you'll just. Talk about it a little bit. You find out people in return are like, Oh my gosh, me too. You know, like all of a sudden you're not alone.

And so I recently more than anything, I've kind of gotten over that fact of I'm the only one that struggles hold it in. Don't share with people. And now I'm talking about it and realizing that the struggles everywhere and. Kind of building a community around it almost.

Damaged Parents: [00:03:02] So it sounds like it's been really freeing in some ways.

Shawna Brinley: [00:03:07] for sure, absolutely.

Damaged Parents: [00:03:08] Does that come with some confidence? What does that come with by sharing your story?

Shawna Brinley: [00:03:13] Maybe stupidity, honestly I think it comes with just being secure in your truth. In my particular situation, coming from the traumatic background that we'll discuss, I think here shortly you lose yourself, you lose your trust in yourself, you lose your esteem and your confidence. And as you start regaining control of your own life, you have to start believing the truth that's inside and not caring.

What everybody's opinion is of your truth. And once I kind of, mentally put that in a good place. I decided that it doesn't matter his side, my side, your side, their side, whatever, it's my truth. And I'm telling my truth. And when people see that genuinely conveyed in a conversation then they tend to tell their truth on things.

And you just start learning about people, like really learning about people.

Damaged Parents: [00:04:10] It sounds like it would lead to more intimate relationships

Shawna Brinley: [00:04:14] Oh, yeah, for sure.

For sure.

Damaged Parents: [00:04:16] Now, I know we haven't talked exactly about your struggle yet, and I do want to get into that. And most definitely. And at the same time, I'm wondering if, because of your struggle, if intimacy was scary at first.

Shawna Brinley: [00:04:29] Yes.

Damaged Parents: [00:04:31] Okay. So we'll get, I hope lead us down that road. Why don't you go ahead and tell us about your struggle so that maybe the listeners can have a better understanding of the purpose of why I would ask that question.

Shawna Brinley: [00:04:42] Yeah. So, I was in a 11 plus year relationship with what I would call a textbook narcissist. And at the time, I didn't know that's what was happening. It started for me when I was divorcing my. First husband my son's dad and a divorce that needed to happen. One, truly a marriage that didn't need to happen.

And we both realized it. But it's still a divorce and there's still a child involved. And so you have difficulties through that, even though it was amicable. So. I was working with, my controller as I call him my abuser and he befriended me through what was a rough time in my life.

I was trying to get my masters done, raising a child now divorced, you know, and he looked stable. He looked like, someone that even as a friend at the time, that I could just really lean on for some stability, because my world just felt so shaken. I realized as I got further into my counseling, I realized that.

From a narcissistic abuse standpoint, they saw that as just an opportunity to get in. If you would have known me before that situation and who I've become kind of back to, I was a very strong, independent person. I'm the first born. I did kind of everything on my own. I didn't always lean on my parents.

I mean, it was like I was a strong headed. Like it was going to be done my way, because that's the way I wanted to do it. And so you would not have probably infiltrated my world as easily if I didn't have this crack in my foundation at the time.

Damaged Parents: [00:06:27] Okay. So you were feeling, not feeling vulnerable, but maybe not as confident in yourself.

Shawna Brinley: [00:06:34] No, because I was raised in the religious household and you just don't get divorced. That's just not what we do. And so you have some struggles, emotionally, spiritually mentally that are being put on by outside people. And at the time I was what I would call the people pleaser. Although I have my own way of doing things.

I never wanted to hurt anyone's feelings along the way. And so yeah, it just shook me to my core because I was hearing about it from family. Like, well, that's just not what we do well, but sometimes the relationship does isn't meant to be, and it was just one of those. And so,

Damaged Parents: [00:07:12] So you had these beliefs that were put on you. By family, friends, maybe things you learned growing up or, or what have you. And because of those beliefs now that what was now that you were in that divorce situation, you didn't believe in yourself and maybe questioned everything and maybe needed someone to tell you you were okay.

Shawna Brinley: [00:07:36] Yeah. Again, it was that stability factor. You know, I saw someone that. Appeared put together, appeared confident in themselves, appeared financially stable. And for me, I was working a full-time job, but I was now going through divorce and having to pay an attorney and going through my master's program for school.

And I mean, there was a lot of bills that I was going to be taking on personally that maybe was split prior to that. And so I saw a lot of stability and a lot of ways

Damaged Parents: [00:08:04] Maybe something you were even looking for because you didn't feel it in your own life and it's like, you needed that crutch.

Shawna Brinley: [00:08:12] Yeah. As the relationship went on, though, I and as my counseling has taught me is that stability was fake. It was It was a perceived stability, in a abusive, particularly mentally and emotionally abusive type situation.

They tend to pull you in with appearance. The mask is on they're Uh, put together super good person. If you're a Christian, they're going to be a Christian. And if you're not, they're not like they're going to confine and control what you see of them

true or not.

Damaged Parents: [00:08:46] they're going to be what they think you want them or need them

to be.

instead of being true to themselves, if you will, I guess. Okay.

Shawna Brinley: [00:08:57] So as I got into like a real relationship with this individual, true colors started coming out. The control started happening the random. Punishments or consequences. If I said something that he didn't like, or I did something he didn't like or acted a certain way, even if no one was around I called them out on something like, Hey, that's not right.

He didn't like it. And there was going to be consequences for it. And what that ends up doing is you start changing the way you approach things. So as we would get further into our situation, our relationship, I stopped challenging things that I should have always challenged because I was afraid of the consequences

Damaged Parents: [00:09:40] So what would one of the like, okay, cause you said the control and it slowly happened. You didn't see it happening. So give us, maybe, could you have an example of what happened early on that so that people could understand better what that might look like?

Shawna Brinley: [00:09:56] Yeah. So, maybe a few just kind of small things early. They jab at you and not like joking around with your friends, jab, but like, say something that truly hurts your feelings in a kind of weird, deep, like, was that a compliment or was that not type of way? Like a very twisted and when you look back, you realize, no, it was a direct jab, but what would happen is you would go, well, that's not nice.

Oh, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. if you have enough of those little things that rock you enough for you to go, where are you kidding? You start. For me, I started justifying, Oh, he's just in a bad mood. Oh. I just, you know, must have said that the wrong way on like how I intended or whatever. And that's really not the case.

It was a way to control how I felt about it, because if he can put me down and knock me down enough in the beginning, then I learned to start bending to how he was reacting.

Damaged Parents: [00:10:59] Ooh. Yeah, because you don't want to have that pain.

Shawna Brinley: [00:11:03] Right. So maybe a situation happened in our household and you go out with friends and, it comes up, you know, like, Oh yeah, that's so-and-so thing happened.

And you start telling the story and you tell it from the way it happened. But you get in the car and instantly it's like, I cannot believe you told them about that. That's so personal. And it had nothing of any personal nature. It could be as simple as well. Here's an example. So we had a like a vase or a clock or something that was on a shelf and something near it ended up falling because the, the nail came out of the wall and shattered in the middle of the night. And I thought our house was getting broken into, I was like, wake up, someone's breaking in like freaking out. He doesn't wake up, come to find out later he was fully awake.

He just needed to see me panic. So I'm telling the story and it was that he didn't even wake up. Like I am dealing with this person breaking into the house, you know, I'm telling them how I felt. And he got in. I can't believe you told them that, like now I look like such a bad person. Cause I didn't wake up when I should have

Well, then it's a punishment of a lot of words and a lot of very mean words because I told the story exactly like it happened for me, but it made him look bad in some way, because he didn't wake up. Why was telling it from a, it ended up being fine, but he just couldn't wake up. It wasn't out of malicious intent. There was no negative. It was more of a funny after it happened, you know? Cause at the time you have situations that are not funny, but then later you're like, okay, that was kind of funny,

Damaged Parents: [00:12:48] Oh yeah. Oh yeah, for sure.

Shawna Brinley: [00:12:50] but for him that wasn't the case.

Damaged Parents: [00:12:52] Yeah. And so in this conversation with your friends, that's where you, I mean, it doesn't sound like at any point you were putting him down, you were just giving the facts of what happened and trying to laugh it off because it was stressful and it probably recently just happened before you told them, I'm thinking, okay,

Shawna Brinley: [00:13:12] There will be times where he would jab at, have you put on a little weight lately? What, what do you mean? Well, it just looks like you're carrying some things differently and I'd be like, that's not very nice. Oh no, no, I'm just kidding. I just, you know, it's those types of jobs and those are the type that when you're in a dating relationship, You tend to just bypass because you're getting to know this person and you think you're like loving this person and you're trusting this person.

And you're realizing later that that is really the person they are. And you just excused away. A lot of red flags very early, after 11 years, depending on the situation, the consequences got worse. The silent treatment, that was one he loved to give. Sometimes it would only be a couple of hours.

Sometimes. I mean, there was the longest one was a little over two months of walking through the same house and one time even walking down the hallway and like bumping into my shoulder, walking by me, like I wasn't standing there.

Damaged Parents: [00:14:10] Ooh for two months, no words. Okay. But at this point, like, gosh, I this was at the, towards the end, I'm thinking

Shawna Brinley: [00:14:19] It was, yeah. It just

felt built.

Damaged Parents: [00:14:21] So it kept getting longer.

It kept getting more intense. When did you start to realize?

Shawna Brinley: [00:14:29] By the point that that two and a half month when it happened, it really was two and a half months of me being able to plan. Potentially had to not be there anymore because he wasn't on top of me. He wasn't like right over my shoulder all the time

Damaged Parents: [00:14:43] Oh, wait. So you went from, he was in your face all the time. If you will, to, the punishment was fine. I'm not going to be, gosh, I don't know for me, that sounds like I'd be so grateful. He wasn't like over my shoulder anymore.

Shawna Brinley: [00:14:57] Yes. But when you're trained. To hold yourself back because you're afraid of the reaction. When you get into silent treatment, you have no idea when the other shoe is going to fall. And because they're not talking to you, you don't know what mood they're in. You don't know what's happened for the day. You don't know what they've experienced with someone else.

You know, nothing

Damaged Parents: [00:15:18] So you can't plan for potential fallout, if

Shawna Brinley: [00:15:21] Right. But when they are on you, you always know what mood they're in, good or bad because they're on you. And it was a control thing. So like, he was always looking over my shoulder at my phone come to find out he was videoing like rooms in our home. Wanting to know if I was having conversations with people that were making him look bad.

And I found this out later when he showed me a video of a conversation with a friend after him and I had had a fight and I needed to vent what happened and like a super close, like still my best friend now. And he's like, you shouldn't be telling her things that are lies. No, no, no, no. They're not lies if you don't want to look like, you know what, stop acting like, you know what.

Damaged Parents: [00:16:04] Yeah. Okay. So it's almost like when he would get angry.  Yeah. So you couldn't go talk to someone because then he looked bad, even though it was that behavior that created the concern, he couldn't take ownership and be like, okay. Yes, I, I did do that. It sucks. I don't like that. I did that. I'm really sorry.

It, none of that, it was just it didn't he wanted to get you to believe it didn't happen or something like that.

Shawna Brinley: [00:16:34] A narcissist will never take blame. And if they do, you will find out later that it is a face value apology, just to get you to stop talking about something, but they never take blame and they can twist a story to make them the good person, even if it is them abusing you and you have a bruise somewhere.

Somehow it turned into you did something to deserve that, or you did something and fell and hit that, whatever. They're never going to be at fault. And so if for anybody that's listening now, if you were in a relationship that legit, it is always your fault. That is the biggest red flag that you can be in.

Like. Straight up, no one is ever 100% at fault of anything ever.

Damaged Parents: [00:17:22] Yeah. Well, and how do you though? Cause I'm thinking probably before the 11 year mark. Even if someone came to you and said, Hey, I'm worried about this. I mean,  tell us, did people come to you?

Shawna Brinley: [00:17:34] So when you're in an abusive situation, you go on a protection mode. And you really don't see it for what it is. You justify actions to your people around you because you don't want them to have to be involved in it too. You've been convinced that you deserve it because of the way you're being talked to the way you're being treated.

You somehow come up with your own way of why you are in this situation. Like, I just deserve it because I divorced my first husband and I shouldn't have this as my punishment, like. You come up with your own kind of reasons and the narcissist or any abuser will tell you why you are being punished. Like they will always tell you why you're being punished.

You know, I reacted because you said this, I reacted because you did that. And so my, my parents, my sister, my close friends would say, I just cannot believe you're still there. Well, when you're in it, you don't always see it. And the things you see, you want to protect anyone else from being involved in.

Damaged Parents: [00:18:37] So would you defend him then?

Shawna Brinley: [00:18:40] You justify, you don't necessarily defend, you just justify their actions.

Well, you know, he just had a bad day today. Well, he was sick and whatever. Well, so-and-so had this happen and he was involved. So you give excuses, you don't necessarily defend their actions of like, well, I deserve to be hit. You don't go there. It's usually you're justifying why he had a reaction at all.

Damaged Parents: [00:19:04] But even when you were hit, I'm thinking you're probably in your mind just to find, well, I did something I shouldn't have done anyway. Maybe

Shawna Brinley: [00:19:12] You start just second guessing what you did. You start going. Okay. What did I do to deserve that? Did I do something bad? Maybe I shouldn't have done that. Like you start second guessing every, literally everything, every word that comes out of your mouth. You second guess, should I say that or not?

Should I go to dinner with that person or not? Or am I going to hear about it when I get back? Should I, whatever you start questioning your whole world. The

Damaged Parents: [00:19:38] So you're questioning even your thoughts then.

Shawna Brinley: [00:19:41] Oh, I came out, not trusting myself or anyone else when I got out of that situation, which was by the grace of God, like literally in a hospital.

I didn't trust a single decision that I made when I came out. As simple as I lived with my parents for seven months out of safety when I got out and I finally found A house that my son and I were going to go back to just him and I, you know, be independent again. And I would get, I think I got 10 or 11 different comforters for my bed because I wasn't sure that was the right comforter because I couldn't trust that I could pick out a freaking comforter because I didn't trust a single decision I was making,

Damaged Parents: [00:20:24] So you couldn't. So I'm thinking there's more to this narcissistic thing, because it sounds like there's this questioning even of did I really have that experience? Can I make a good choice? Like, it just seems like it could go on and on.

Shawna Brinley: [00:20:41] Well, when you live in it for, in my case, just a little over 11 years, you're always wrong. So every decision you made is wrong. You're always the one to blame. You're always the one that had the problem. You're always the one that didn't do it the way that it should have been done. You're always the one that picked out the wrong bread.

When you wanted that bread, your, every decision you've made throughout your last 11 years is questioned. Even though it shouldn't be like it's eggs. Sorry, they didn't have your brand. It's the same thing, you know? Like,

Damaged Parents: [00:21:11] Little things

Shawna Brinley: [00:21:13] because you're being questioned throughout your entire world every single day, every single week, every single month, you start distrusting you're right.

Maybe I can't make a good decision. I

mean, for 11 years I haven't made a good decision. So.

Damaged Parents: [00:21:28] Yeah. How did that extend into your emotions

or did it?

Shawna Brinley: [00:21:32] yeah, so I had no self confidence anymore. I had no self esteem. I am not a crier by nature. Like I never have been. And so the times that I would cry, like people need to be nervous when I cry. People need to be nervous when I start laughing, when I cry like that, I'm like on the brink of like, I am really not good.

But it's almost like you're so numbed out trying to figure out what is actually happening to you because you don't see it. You have a feeling it's wrong, but you cannot put the pieces together. And that is part of the narcissistic abuse as they twist your world so much that. What is up, what is down?

What do I do when you start talking about trying to get out, they give you a million reasons why you would never survive on your own. You start doubting that. And so I almost was numbed out I didn't know what to feel. And I it's almost like I was looking for permission on how to feel

Damaged Parents: [00:22:30] Yeah, that's what I was wondering. So if you were looking for permission on how to feel from him, when you did finally leave, was it, what was it like figuring out your emotions again? Cause I'm thinking you would probably, in some ways have to relearn what they meant  I don't know.

Shawna Brinley: [00:22:46] two and a half years of a really good counselor, realizing it's okay to have my feelings. All feelings are valid. Feelings of anger and hate. When I first got out it's okay. Feeling of sadness and regret I blamed myself, like how did I let myself get in that situation? So I had to learn to forgive myself and forgiving yourself is like one of the hardest things to do.

Because. In our world, we negative self-talk ourself, but we wouldn't do that to other people. And so I blame myself, but the blame should have probably went somewhere else. And I had to relearn, it's okay to have feelings. It's all feelings are valid. Even if the other person dismisses the feelings you were having.

Right. Then that is a valid feeling that you're feeling. And you just need to live through it. And so two and a half years of a very intense counseling to learn how to be a normal human, really like just a normal human. I could function in my everyday life. I was still very career minded.

When I was at work, it was all about work, but when I got home, I was a hot mess who had no idea what was going on. Like, I, it just wasn't. Wasn't good. And so, I would tell anyone that's thinking about getting out of a situation that is like this, find a counselor. And I found a counselor that specialized in abuse, specialized in PTSD from abuse so that they can walk you through.

Reality instead of like, just cumbayaing and saying you're going to be okay because you have to be pushed into relearning. You have to be pushed into trusting. It's okay to be mad and some counselors just want to go. Okay. Do you feel better now that you got mad? That's not what you need. You need someone that's going to go, okay, you got mad.

Let's talk about why you got mad. Let's actually dissect, like it's okay for this to happen. And let's go through the whole situation of what triggered you. When you are in a situation like that, you have what are called triggers. And so your emotions get triggered off of seeing something that reminds you of something or hearing a song.

And people have that naturally you have to relearn how to do a normal life around everyday triggers.

Damaged Parents: [00:25:01] So almost like when you're triggered better understand. So you have to be patient enough with yourself. To investigate the trigger and the feeling so that then you can figure out what may be the best response would be.

Shawna Brinley: [00:25:17] Yeah, I had to learn how to not apologize so much. I would say, sorry for things that I wasn't even kind of responsible for throughout that 11 years, like in any form. And it trained me to do that in my normal life when I got out as well. And my husband now we have an incredible marriage. He came from a relationship of scars as well.

And so we understand. The mental and emotional trauma from a relationship that isn't good. And luckily that has helped because when something happens and I apologize, he will go, okay, that's not even your thing to apologize for. Like, you've got to stop doing that. And so you have to relearn to literally be what would be an average human in the world.

And not just going back to kind of this programming, you know, what you've been programmed to think. And so it, it's been a very Metro trial and error situation. I'm almost five years out completely now, and they're still a thing here or there that triggers something. And I still have my counselor, where I can call her when those happen and say, okay, like new thing came up and I think I need to make sure I dealt with it the way that should be handled. And so

Damaged Parents: [00:26:30] Almost like you have to figure out if you're dealing with things in a healthy way.

Shawna Brinley: [00:26:35] Yeah.

Damaged Parents: [00:26:36] And, because you were triggered, was it the trigger? Or was it how you responded to that trigger?

Shawna Brinley: [00:26:43] Usually how you respond. So when you're triggered that reminds you of something from your kind of traumatic time, you tend to go into anxiety and fear. And so your reaction is fear-based, it's like, Oh no, I'm not going to have a consequence because I did that thing. And I shouldn't have done that thing.

And that's not the case anymore. But your programming tells you that. And so you have to learn to look at the situation and go, okay, there's nothing unsafe here. Even if I made a bad choice, the only thing is you return whatever it was, because it was just a single bad choice. It's not like your whole world is falling apart.

But at the time it feels like that for something very, very simple. So here's an example of a recent trigger. My husband, we're getting ready to move. And my husband was working on a couple of things around the house, but we have plans in like 30 minutes from the timeframe of this happening.

And he went to fix something on the door and that's like a five minute fix, but he didn't tell me that. In my past 11 years, my ex would have things done at our house. And I would literally wake up to people working in my home, contractors coming in and out and what he would say, well, that's only going to be a mess for two days would end up being there for three weeks because he would add this project or that project or whatever, and just totally rock my world.

It canceled plans. We couldn't like, Oh, we had a big dinner party scheduled. Well, you're gonna have to cancel that because we've got these contractors here. They weren't supposed to be here. You know, like it was stuff like that. So this five minute fix that my new husband was doing, I literally got set off going well now we're not going to make our plans because you're doing this thing.

Like I freaked out because my programming was. This is going to take days and days and days. And you know, we have plans and now you're sabotaging these plans and I freaked out and my husband, because he knows now, like when these things happen, he just gently grabbed the side of my arms and said, this is a five minute thing.

I promise if it takes longer than five minutes, I will put it down and we will do it when we get back. Okay. Like I had to cycle through some. Major emotion though. And I probably cycled through that emotion all the way to us pulling into meeting our friends for dinner because I was so set off like,

Damaged Parents: [00:29:03] Yes. No, it sounds like it. And I think though, too, because of the history, it's super duper helps to have someone there that says, this is what I'm telling you it is. And if it takes longer, because there is that possibility. So he's opening it up to the fact that he could be wrong and remaining calm.

And instead of going to that high emotion with you, that that would be really important. It's almost kind of like a warm blanket hug. It sounds like, you know, that's all I was thinking when you were telling me like, Oh, she clearly was in pain and he responded in love instead of no, it's only gonna take five minutes,

you know,

Shawna Brinley: [00:29:49] Yeah. And he very easily could have, because I was like set off like it, and it was instant. Not even like, why are you starting that now? I mean, it was like, I was back in my old situation and it was, I mean, it was instant, instant,

Damaged Parents: [00:30:03] And it's been five years, five or six years since you

Shawna Brinley: [00:30:06] Almost 5 years.

Damaged Parents: [00:30:07] So even five years later,

Shawna Brinley: [00:30:09] There's just random little things and it's not as frequent.

So what you'll find is if you've gotten out, you probably have a lot of things in the first six months year. Maybe even 18 months, depending on how severe your situation was. But then they get fewer and far between those triggers are less and less and less, or they're less large reaction. They're more contained where you still maybe have a reaction.

And maybe they still happen fairly frequently, but they're not the end of the world. It's just a small moment. And then you can move on. And so they get fewer and far between, and. When my husband and I started dating, I actually had to say, look, I've got some programming in there and I've dealt with a ton and I've done some great work.

I don't know what else is in there though, that could come up. And until a situation happens, I don't even know it's there. I've dealt with what I know about, and so I just made it pretty clear, like, From the get-go. I came from some really crap things and I'm still working through some things.

And if it comes up, I will apologize a million times just know, like I'm not. At you, I'm not attacking you. It's whatever reaction just happens. And probably in our marriage, the last two years we've only had probably five or six things that really have come up. A couple that have come up that I was able to contain because I realized it very, very fast.

The probably only five or six that were like, We need to talk about that. Like fixing the door. I had to explain, then let me tell you why I had this reaction. This is what my life used to be. And once you explain it, they go, okay. Yeah, we're good. Like, no worries. I know I'm not taking it offensively, you know?

Damaged Parents: [00:31:48] Right. And do you come up with a plan for the next time that trigger happens or if something similar happens and I know I've got to ask about the plan because I'm thinking the plan probably sometimes goes out the window when it's a trigger.

Shawna Brinley: [00:32:03] A few it's really about communication. So now he just knows that if there's something coming up I need, he needs to tell me about it. Like I need to be mentally prepared him working on the door. He now knows, Hey, since we have this 30 minutes, I'm going to do this quick five minute thing on the door.

I think it only takes me five minutes, maybe eight, but like we have plenty of time. So he now knows to kind of like preemptively set me up for, Hey, this is what I'm doing. This is approximately what it is. Or I need to go work in my office. If I lose track of time, come get me before we're doing XYZ.

Like we now have just enough communication between us and he now understands how I function and how he functions that  we've worked through it. Now we did do premarital counseling with my counselor because I, my situation was substantially more dramatic and traumatic than where he came from.

So that my counselor could help him understand, like, Hey, what she's been through. There's some things mentally that she still sorting through, but if you saw her, when she came out to where she is now, like night and day different person. Yeah.

Damaged Parents: [00:33:13] Okay, so I've got to ask. When you, so you left this challenging, horrible relationship in and then went into the dating world. And it seems to me like you felt damaged. Do you thought you were damaged all of that and how difficult was that and how did you walk through that?

Shawna Brinley: [00:33:34] Yeah. So it was probably two years. After I got out, before I started dating at all because I definitely was not in a place. I didn't trust myself, let alone trust someone like I was sitting across the table from. And my counselor is actually the one that, she basically said. Why don't you just get on a dating app, just see what's out there.

I just think you need to see what's out there so you can either prepare yourself or decide it's just not for you right now. Just see what's out there. So I got on a dating app and I tell people I weeded out a lot of weeds. Like a lot of crap. I could weed them out, though, in a matter of two or three questions, maybe a couple of days I talked to a ton of people and maybe only went on six dates.

Like I was asking questions that I wanted to know the truth. And if they weren't willing to give it to me, I couldn't put myself back in that potential situation. And that was a learned thing I had to learn. Like if there's a red flag and it's not a true justified red flag, like really obvious then.

I can't do it. And so like, if they wouldn't even tell me their last name, I wasn't going to go out with them because if I couldn't feel comfortable enough to know who they really were, I'm not doing it. Um, Or I would ask questions that required more than a yes or no answer. And if the answer that came back was a little like, Hmm, okay, that's too good to be true type situation.

I was out like, I mean, I weeded through some crap. The six dates I went on before marrying my husband were not very good picks. Probably they were more, some people pass the test, but once we met, it was like, Nope, I just can't. I dated one for a couple of months. I tell people he was good for the heart.

He told me all the right things and whatever, I saw red flags, but I knew he wasn't long-term it was something for me to just get used to being back in this dating thing. And so everybody crosses your path for a reason, even when you're dating. And so, yeah, it was tough and there was no like. I, I call it my dark time.

There was no like, yay, what's going to date. It was like, Hey, we're going on a date because I really wasn't like really wasn't there yet.

Damaged Parents: [00:35:51] Yeah, you weren't excited. It was hard to get excited because it seemed like a job. It sounds like.

Shawna Brinley: [00:35:57] Yeah. I call it my dark time and when my husband and I met. I told them bits and pieces, but there were so many details that until we got further in our relationship and I could trust who he was as a person I wasn't going to, because I felt like it made me look bad that I was caught up in something like that for 11 years that I allowed it to happen.

And so I be given bits and pieces, but I didn't want him to just go running for the Hills because I put myself in a situation that was negative. And then I was abused and like, you know, that's one thing I, feel like we need to touch on is. When you are being abused and you don't see it in your outside people, they almost become abusers as well because your friends, your family, whatever, just want to go get out.

Why can't you see that? And they want to constantly pound this idea of why don't you see it? Why didn't you see it? He's such a jerk, but you know that you stopped telling them anything because you're getting just as much abuse from this support system than you are from your abuser. And what that is is the evil in front of you, but getting out as an unknown and you know, nothing about the unknown. And so do you want the thing that you now know, or do you want the fear of what is, could be out here and by them pushing and pushing and pushing, they became an abuser as well, because I couldn't handle it all.

And so when I got out and I got better with myself, I was able to talk to my family and say, you know what? If we were back in that situation, what I need you to do is call me and say, let's go to dinner and just talk to me like a human being. Because if you felt the love and support around you, maybe getting out would be, would appear easier because I have this loving support system over here

Damaged Parents: [00:37:38] Yeah, not the angry judgmental. You're wrong.

Shawna Brinley: [00:37:42] Right. I didn't want to leave to be judged by someone else. And they were doing it out of love. They were doing it out of concern. Absolutely. But when you're already in abused, you just see that as added things. And so for all the people out there that are listening, that have someone that you know, is in this situation become their true love person.

Let's go to dinner and let's just talk about how your day went. Let's talk about your kids. Let's talk about anything other than the situation that they are directly in unless they just want to tell you about it. But if you become that true support person for them, they will seek security. They will seek this. Okay. I know I can trust this person and when I'm ready to get out, that's who I go to because I can fully trust this person instead of becoming another, just abuser in the line.

Damaged Parents: [00:38:33] So to be that support person, it sounds like it's really important to simply just be with them and love them where they're at, because when you're in the midst of a bad relationship like that, You're already beating yourself up so much that when you go to these other people that, although they're doing it out of love, they're telling you it's bad, believing it.

Then you don't want to talk to them for the simple reason that you know, that it's bad, but you're also afraid to get out, but now you're going to disappoint them too. So now you're just disappointing everyone because you're disappointing your relationship at home and then you're not leaving. So you're also disappointing.

Your friends and family.

Shawna Brinley: [00:39:16] right.

Yeah. I'm a disappointment, literally all around.

Damaged Parents: [00:39:20] So when did you start that? You know, you went through therapy, but when did you start noticing that you were feeling confident that you were figuring that out, that you were starting to go, okay. I'm going to be okay.

Shawna Brinley: [00:39:32] Probably it was, I don't know, a year into living at home. So then in my home, I'm in now. So he was about 18 months after I got out was the first time. And throughout the time I knew I'm going to be okay because of the person I am like, I will survive this I've survived other things. It just is going to be really hard.

It was probably about 18 months. I remember sitting in my home and it was, I had been there approximately a year and my son was with his dad for the weekend and it was just me. And for the first time I had this value of, I can be by myself and it's quiet and I'm not going to be punished for being here by myself.

And I'm not going to be punished for not going and doing this, this and this. I can watch whatever I want to watch on TV. It was like this calm all of a sudden, because I was no longer making choices for anyone, but me and my son was at his dad's. So I wasn't even making a choice for him that weekend. It was just me and , I was good with that, like, okay. Yes. And so not that that happened every day or every night, but it was probably the first time that I felt this calm and peace

in my situation.

Damaged Parents: [00:40:48] So even after leaving there's this unsettled mess, if you will.

And.

Shawna Brinley: [00:40:53] Hmm. So abusers tend to continue trying to pull you in and statistics are that you will return to your abuser, whether they're a narcissist, whether they're physically, domestically, a parent abuser you tend to return to them on an average of seven times before you just cut it off completely.

So knowing that. They messaged you, they call you, they write emails, they get on your social media, they follow you. They show up at your work. They do all these things to make sure that, you know, they're still around and they're still control because it invokes this fear factor in you. I blocked 11 phone numbers, three different emails, four or five different social media accounts before he finally got the idea I'm done.

That is a process that is a process of weeding through. Is that phone number his, or is it someone else of someone I actually need to know? Is that email really his, or is it someone that I really need to respond to? You start second guessing everything. And that happens for a long time. You look over your shoulder.

Are they in the car next to you? Or are they behind you or whatever? And so. You do have to do something called no contact, meaning you literally cut off all ties. You don't text them. You don't answer texts. You don't answer emails. You don't pick up the phone. If you pick up the phone and they're on you, hang back up, you go completely, no contact.

And for someone that has been what they call trauma bonded, you've been with that abuser and you've now justified every action they've done for 11 years. That is hard to do. And you start second guessing. Well, what if they really didn't need me? What if this is the time that they decided to change? What if da da da da he threatened suicide three times.

Luckily I was in counseling at the time and she said, call the police for a well-check stop giving in to his phone call because he would leave a voicemail saying this is my last phone call ever make. I took a whole bunch of pills like this is it. Well, then you call back going, why are you doing that?

Like, You call back to out of concern because you're bonded to this person for them to go, Oh, see, I knew you were still attached.

Damaged Parents: [00:43:03] ouch.

Shawna Brinley: [00:43:05] Okay. She's the one that advised me to go non-contact best decision I ever made. Hardest decision I've ever made, but the best decision. And when he pulls stuff like that, call the police for a well-check. And the second time the police showed up at his house in a cul-de-sac that we were in.

In the same week, I got an email say my neighbors, nothing. I'm crazy because you keep sending the Calvary and I'm like, then stop calling me when you want to do stuff like this,

call someone else because I'm going to continue sending these people. And they're going to continue logging that they came to your house for a well-check. So it's the hardest decision I ever had to do, but that's the only way I could fully really cut ties and heal emotionally. So.

Damaged Parents: [00:43:47] that, and that would be hard. And it sounds like from your journey, really at the end of the day, it's going to be hard and that that's just part of the journey. And while you were in the middle of it, It probably felt like it wasn't going to end. It probably felt like you were never going to get to that peaceful weekend that you got to. And so, okay. So three things that you would want. I mean, I know you've already given us some tips and tools, some really great tips and tools. Right. But so you can either use those as three of your things or some of your things or not, or you could give us three new things, but most importantly, that the person in the relationship and the support people can do when something like that is happening to them or to someone they love.

Shawna Brinley: [00:44:37] So if you're in it you can make a plan. If you are doubting that you can't survive getting out because there's always a threat that they're going to do you in, they're going to find you they're going to kill you, or you're never going to find anybody. You're not worth it. There's domestic violence advocates out there that don't just deal with physical abuse, it's abuse in general, and you can find those with the police department, a counselor can help you find those.

An attorney can help you find those. You can actually get hooked up with one of those and have a plan in place in a matter of a couple of days. But. If you have this thought, you can go ahead and preplan your out for months, you know, like, I'm not sure I'm ready, but if I do get ready, I want to know, and they will help you plan.

They will get what's called a go-bag where you have two changes of clothes, of fresh toothbrush, like a hairbrush, some of your basic steps and basically a backpack. So that the day you leave, you don't have to return for any like essentials. They have a plan on how you get valuables out of the home prior to actually leaving.

They can help you safely, get out. They get the police involved. If they have to, to get things from your home, if you have items that you need to get out most abuse survivors, including myself, tend to leave with basically only like their clothes and a few possessions, but I left pretty much my whole house there.

He hid things that were so important to not just me, but to my son, that his grandma had given him that are just, they're not lost. He hid them. I mean, he knows where they are. I don't. And so the first thing I would tell you to do is if you're considering, like, if you're even second guessing, am I in this type of relationship, I would talk to someone, whether it's a counselor, whether it's a domestic violence advocate, an attorney, a police officer, anybody at counselors, really a good place to start because they can connect you with all of those people and you can go to counseling and you can tell your abuser, I'm going to counseling to learn how to be a better person for you.

And it feeds their ego and you're not really going for that, but it feeds their ego enough that they let you go without too many questions. Second, I would tell you when you're out, no contact is like the hardest thing you'll ever do, but if you don't want to get pulled back in, that's the only way you can do it.

And you. Just don't give in, in any form, you block as many numbers as you need, you block as much social media as you need. You just block it all. I have notebooks because we had some legal things that had to be dealt with. After the fact that I found out about, of every email he sent and there's probably half of them in there.

I never read because they just say the same things over and over. And I needed to not put myself back in this negative space. And so I they're now at my attorney's office, like. Just notebooks of all that stuff so that if anything comes forward later, we have proof of all the crap he did in paper form.

There's no manipulating it. There's nothing. And then third, if you are looking for support, there's tons of support groups out there. And if you are a supporter, make sure to be a true supporter, not another abuser, not another person that's just bringing that person down more and more because they already feel bad about being in the situation they're in.

They don't see it like you do. It's not as clear and just be there loving on them so that they know they can trust you when it's time.

Damaged Parents: [00:48:01] Those are awesome. Thank you so much. Shawna. We're so glad you

Shawna Brinley: [00:48:05] Yeah. Thank you for having me on. I really appreciate it.

Damaged Parents: [00:48:09] Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Relatively Damaged by Damaged Parents. We really enjoyed talking to Shawna about how she escaped a very toxic relationship. We especially liked when she explained how triggers can still happen and how she's learned to cope. To unite with other damaged people. Connect with us on Facebook. Look for Damaged Parents will be here next week. Still relatively damaged. See you then.