Episode 59: Singing It and Winging It
Alison Hughey
Allison Hughey teaches us that music can help us feel seen and heard, feel connected with strangers, connect through time to our history connect to our faith and physically bring us together period since earning her music therapy board certification in 2010 she served clients in long term care, mental health, and community settings. In 2018 she founded Carolina Music Therapy her private practice based in Spartanburg, SC. In addition to offering music therapy services she shares resources on music in self-care for mental health at Compose Yourself Care via workshops and a membership program called Good Treble.
Social media and contact information: Let's keep in touch! Here's a link for a free PDF on using music to get out of work mode: https://mailchi.mp/c6c3764e45a4/musical-commute
You can explore the Compose Your Self Care Facebook community, Good Treble membership, Spotify channel, and more resources here: https://linktr.ee/composeyourselfcare
And enjoy tidbits on music + self care (and related memes) here on Instagram...
www.instagram.com/composeyourselfcare
And, more on my clinical music therapy practice at my website:
www.carolinamusictherapy.com
Podcast Transcript:
Damaged Parents: [00:00:00] Hey, Hey, welcome back to the Relatively Damaged Podcast by Damaged Parents were out of tune. Distorted, warped people come to learn. Maybe just, maybe we're all a little bit damaged. Someone once told me it's safe to assume. 50% of the people I meet are struggling and feel wounded in some way. I would venture to say it's closer to 100%.
Every one of us is either currently struggling or has struggled with something that made us feel less than like we aren't good enough. We aren't capable. We are relatively damaged.
And that's what we're here to talk about in my ongoing investigation of the damage self I've wanted to better understand how others view their own challenges. Maybe it's not so much about the damage. Maybe it's about our perception and how we deal with it. There is a deep commitment to becoming who we're meant to be.
How do you do that? How do you find balance after a damaging experience? My hero is the damaged person. The one who faces seemingly insurmountable odds to come out on the other side hole. Those who stare directly into the face of adversity with unyielding persistence to discover their purpose. These are the people who inspire me to be more fully me.
Not in spite of my trials, but because of the, let's hear from another hero. Today's topic includes sensitive material, which may not be appropriate for children. This podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended as advice. The opinions expressed here are strictly those of the person who gave them.
Today we get to talk with Alison Hughey. She has many roles in her life. Daughter sister-in-law cousin. Fairy godmother, dog, mom, and more. We'll talk about how she used music to cope with anxiety and pain. Let's talk.
Welcome Alison to Relatively Damaged. I'm so glad you're here today.
Alison Hughey: [00:01:59] Thanks for having me, Angela. Glad to be here.
Damaged Parents: [00:02:02] Yeah. I'm really interested to see where our conversation goes on music and how it can help during a struggle. If you just want to start wherever your struggle started for us. And then I'm going to ask questions, throughout the process and we'll get to, hopefully we'll get to see and experience how to use music to our benefit.
Alison Hughey: [00:02:22] Well, music has been a huge part of my life since I can remember. My family is very musical. My grandmother, babysat me often and played piano and sang in the choir. And so I always loved sharing music with her. And then as I started to get older, I started to experience anxiety. And, when I was in elementary school, I wasn't really sure what it was or, if everybody felt that way.
And music became a really big source of not only escape and entertainment and distraction. But also self-expression for things that I couldn't verbalize. So as I continued to get older I dealt with depression as well, and was diagnosed with anxiety and depression in college and continued to lean into music as a way to cope.
So I've continued using playing music, listening to music using music to express myself, to deal with mental health and boost my emotional resilience in a lot of ways. And also so decided to complete a program in music therapy after I experienced physical pain.
And I had a back injury a few years after I graduated college initially for fleet performance and found myself using music to cope with chronic pain and deal with the frustration of medical providers being skeptical and suspicious of me continuing to report pain when there was no like, Thing on paper that could explain why I was still having pain.
So that was a really frustrating experience and got really, really depressed and very isolated. And music was a big part of my recovery and that. So using music to, to sing, to like verbalize and. Tyrone pain, you know, and sustaining sounds or tat rhythms out on my body to cope with the pain and frustration.
And around that time I met someone who had just enrolled in a music therapy program at a college nearby. And it was the first time I had heard about music therapy. I was like, Oh, what, there's a degree program in this. This is a career path. Yes, yes. I need to go back to school. So it was like this convergence of.
Yeah, different ways that music had always been there for me. And then realizing that there is, a whole field devoted to that. So I've continued to explore that and, use music in my own ways for mental health and then also share clinical music therapy.
Damaged Parents: [00:04:49] Nice. Okay. So I just want to go back to the elementary school. Because I, I agree. I think it's really hard to articulate when you're young, what that anxiety feels like, maybe what were the behaviors that adults could look for in children or what were your behaviors? Because I think they're probably all different in every child that is as very experienced anxiety so that, if an adult sees it that they might be able to recognize that something is going on.
Alison Hughey: [00:05:16] I remember having episodes of crying a lot of withdrawal, social withdrawal frustration on changes in routine or not having expectations met. So, kind of that stiffness and rigidity on routine or preferences,
Damaged Parents: [00:05:35] so just so I can understand, so you would get stiff and rigid in the routine because you'd needed that comfort, if you will.
Alison Hughey: [00:05:45] Yeah, I think so. Yeah.
Damaged Parents: [00:05:48] Okay. And then. So people that's one of the things people might notice is your inability to shift from routine or that's absolute need for, or the routine.
And without that routine, maybe crying or not outbreak
Alison Hughey: [00:06:04] Outbursts. Yeah, I would definitely say I had a visual outburst and anger or experiencing a lot of perfectionism too, and being scared to try new things because I had a lot of fear of failure, or, beating myself up for not winning a contest or things like that. Like, That kind of a syndrome.
Damaged Parents: [00:06:25] Okay. And you said that grandma was a big part of your life at that time and she had brought music. So did you, what did you recognize about yourself? What was the difference between having grandma around with music and not having grandma around and was there music in both sides? I'm thinking there's music and in all those situations, but what was it maybe about the music and grandma that helped you to cope and really express what was going on?
Alison Hughey: [00:06:52] She had such a joyful spirit about her and especially with music and I might start crying, but, it's yeah, it's something that I really miss about her and her spirit being here on earth, but she. She was always happy to share music or to, one to sing a song. And, no matter where she would make up songs on the fly and, make up silly songs and change words to songs, which I love to do too.
And she definitely had that playful enthusiasm, but also a comforting calm. And loving presence about her. And she was also the first person to draw my attention to the power of breath. And I don't really remember what prompted this, but I remember vividly when I was probably like I was six or seven years old or something that she encouraged me to take deep breaths and to pay attention to how it felt in my body.
And to feel that effect and how it shifted my mood. And of course he didn't use those words, but I remember that being a big aha moment and leaning on that, like even through elementary school all through today,
Damaged Parents: [00:08:04] Yeah. And then later you were diagnosed with depression. Tell us a little bit about what was going on there for you and what that felt like and looked like maybe to the people around you.
Alison Hughey: [00:08:16] I definitely, at that time, withdrew from a lot of activities or friendships. I started to, self-medicate more with drinking and started to miss a lot of classes. I had gone through a really bad breakup with my boyfriend and dealt with a lot of issues surrounding that. And my what I thought was going to be my life path and a future with him, and then also dealing with some other.
Emotional baggage and scars from a high school relationship. So there was just a lot of stuff that I hadn't dealt with that just all came tumbling out and tearfulness as well with that period of time it was a big symptom. And I don't know if people around me noticed as much, but lack of enjoyment of things I used to enjoy is a big piece of that, feeling very disconnected.
Damaged Parents: [00:09:11] So you were still going out and hanging out with people, but you weren't feeling connected in those moments.
Alison Hughey: [00:09:17] Correct.
Damaged Parents: [00:09:18] How was it? It sounded earlier, like, what you said is during that time, you've learned to find music. How did you do that? It seemed like you kind of were prepped by grandma and so later in life.
Alison Hughey: [00:09:29] Mom and dad, I have to give them a shout out. I'm like so many other people in my family. Yeah, if they either played an instrument or sang or they just love music, like we were listening to music all the time. My mom and dad took me to see Pink Floyd as my first concert when I was in middle school.
Like,, yeah. So I was surrounded by a lot of musical influences and great people growing up.
Damaged Parents: [00:09:51] when you get into this depression, were you able. Even to relate to music in that time? Part of me is wondering if in that time, if you listened to music to lean into the depressed feelings, or if you used it to help uplift you, what did you do and how did that look?
Alison Hughey: [00:10:11] So the unique situation that I was in college for music performance. So there is the academic aspect of music and playing solo flute pieces and playing in ensembles and that sort of thing. And I felt like. In those moments. When I was actively playing music, I felt the most connected. I felt the most, like I was in my purpose or in the flow of where I needed to be in life.
And also feeling a sense of accomplishment and that and feeling, you know, checking off the boxes, completing requirements and like doing what I should do. And then also listening to music and back of the Napster and Limewire days of that era, and like exploring all the music and downloading all the songs and like going down rabbit holes of making playlists for different things I was going through.
So I feel like I was still able to engage in. Both, academic sides of enjoying the music and recreational music, making and listening. And I started to go out and improvise playing flute with other people as well. I had an awesome friend in college, Carol Arnold, who that's her maiden name who encouraged me to try improvising with some friends who would play bars and things like that.
So it opened up another outlet for music for me.
Damaged Parents: [00:11:35] And when you started improvising, do you think that also helped with the anxiety and depression? And I'm just wondering if you even understand, since you have that background in music therapy, if the improvisation helped and how come.
Alison Hughey: [00:11:52] I think so it's a really great question and something I've honestly never thought about. And in that time going out to bars and places where I was improvising. I definitely wasn't making the best choices as far as drinking goes at that period of my life. And that was something that I leaned on to you feel more comfortable, improvising and playing in front of people in that kind of environment? But with stepping out of my comfort zone and spending time with friends who were very encouraging and supportive. Those things definitely helped me. Kind of recalibrate and reformulate who I was and feel more confident in myself and more brave and courageous.
And then with playing with other people really, tuning in pun intended, like to, to listening to the music very acutely and tuning in a nonverbal communication that happens when you're playing music with other people that that depth of connection took me out of self-talk and rumination.
So I think that was definitely a really big step in and helpful.
Damaged Parents: [00:13:02] No rumination, remind me what that is.
Alison Hughey: [00:13:06] So, going over and over the crappy thoughts that we think about ourselves, or, like, thinking back and replaying something that you said that you wish you wouldn't have said 10 years ago or yesterday and that loop that sometimes we can get stuck in
Damaged Parents: [00:13:24] it's literally a loop of thoughts that you can't get out of. And maybe there's nothing you can do about what happened that started that process, but you can't stop thinking about it.
Alison Hughey: [00:13:39] Yes,
Damaged Parents: [00:13:40] I think I would be looking forward to those musical interactions, if that was the only way to get rid of those thoughts.
Alison Hughey: [00:13:47] Definitely.
Damaged Parents: [00:13:48] Now did any of these people that you were hanging out with, did they know how you were feeling on the inside? I mean, you said they maybe didn't recognize anything on the outside, but did any of them know that you were struggling with it?
Alison Hughey: [00:14:01] Several of my closest friends did. And I think that I talked about it openly with my mom at that point. I talked openly to some degree with different people. So, I, I did have a counselor as well. He was a really big component of my healing and recovery.
Damaged Parents: [00:14:20] being open about it was actually really helpful. It sounds like.
Alison Hughey: [00:14:24] Very much so scary at times, but helpful.
Damaged Parents: [00:14:28] Okay. You said scary at
Alison Hughey: [00:14:29] Yeah.
Damaged Parents: [00:14:29] helpful. So it, can you explain that? How can it be scary and helpful at the same time and how did it help that other people knew.
Alison Hughey: [00:14:40] It definitely took me out of my comfort zone to share things that I was going through because I felt like something was wrong with me or something was. Defective with me, or I was taking things too personally, or taking things too much to heart or you know, that I wasn't strong enough to deal with X, Y, and Z.
And why is this affected me so much? And, moving away from that through counseling and sharing openly with people led me to find. Out that several of my close friends at that time also went through similar struggles either in the past or at that present time we're going through a depression.
Right. So, again, it was helpful, but at the same time, scary and wondering what other people would think about me knowing that I was going through that or knowing that I was taking medication.
Damaged Parents: [00:15:33] So before you shared the scary part was I'm not going to be accepted or something is wrong and I'm broken.
Alison Hughey: [00:15:41] Yes.
Damaged Parents: [00:15:42] And then what you found out is no, we're more similar than I realized.
Alison Hughey: [00:15:47] Exactly. Yes.
Damaged Parents: [00:15:49] Okay. Okay. It's really hard to admit to almost a blind spot, right? That you had that blind spot and that walking through to address that, to share because the blind spot being these other people that didn't know, or that it's had these same experiences and yet they weren't talking about it either.
So your courage allowed them room to, to say back. Yes. I know where you're at. I've been there too.
Alison Hughey: [00:16:19] Yes.
Damaged Parents: [00:16:20] The absolute, only way you could do that was to say something which is so hard.
Alison Hughey: [00:16:26] yes. Yeah. And that fear of what will they think, or yeah. Are they gonna, you know, that the fear of being outcast or the fear of being kicked out of the group, that kind of thing, but at the same time,
Damaged Parents: [00:16:38] you had to accept that was a possibility before you could say something. So I would think like you, you probably had to go in your mind and go, okay, this is a real possibility. If I share this, they may not accept me anymore. And then still say something.
Alison Hughey: [00:16:54] Yes.
Damaged Parents: [00:16:55] Oh, that's hard. Okay.
Alison Hughey: [00:16:57] and of course back then at that age, I didn't know how common depression was or how common anxiety is. And, I love in your intro that you talk about how like, someone once recommended that you think of like eight out of 10 or 80,
Damaged Parents: [00:17:14] 50% of the people struggling in some way. And I, actually believe it's closer to 100%. I think we're all more similar than we realize. Which is the purpose of the podcast really is to show we all struggle. And even today I'm struggling with, thoughts of, did I do the right thing?
What's happening? Was I crazy to think that this other thing was a possibility I've been told I'm wrong and dirty and, you know, cause people are not always nice. And although I could have gone about it in a different way, that's not what happened. And I actually learned a lot about myself and about the community that, that I'm in.
You know, it took bravery and courage to even say something in the first place.
Alison Hughey: [00:18:01] Okay. Yes. The more we were able to individually demonstrate that bravery and courage and talk more openly, and show more compassion and be, comfortable with being uncomfortable every now and then, and, and taking those risks and be vulnerable. The more we're able to deeply connect and drop our mask and feel that relief.
Not that I'm advocating, getting rid of COVID mask right now, but drop your mask as far as like being yourself. How freeing that can be.
Damaged Parents: [00:18:30] and it also can be very, very hard. Right. You were in a situation with, close friends who, welcomed that, and that may not always be the case, so then we have to look for other environments in which to, to find that safe support. And then I don't know about you, but what I've noticed when I have that safe support, it makes it easier to venture out and take those risks.
Okay.
Alison Hughey: [00:18:54] Definitely
Damaged Parents: [00:18:55] Yeah. Okay. So you also said, the improv music and everything, working with a therapist that is what helped you get over that depression and anxiety at that, time. Right.
Alison Hughey: [00:19:06] medication.
Damaged Parents: [00:19:07] And medication. Okay. And so I'm not sure if you want to go down that, that road with medication or, did it help just get you out of if I'm going too far, just let me know, but I'm thinking maybe it was the stepping stone to helping shift.
Alison Hughey: [00:19:24] I think so. I think it was a stepping stone and it definitely wouldn't have been as effective or even potentially effective period without the other things in play
Damaged Parents: [00:19:36] Okay, so taking it did help. And yet you had to go do the therapy and I'm thinking in therapy, it was working on those thoughts and maybe some changed
Alison Hughey: [00:19:48] Both and his processing. All the things, in my mind, all the previous stuff that I bottled up. So I love visual descriptions and visual analogies period, but especially the illustration I've seen. Depicting therapy with having a big tangle of strings in one's head. And then, with the therapist helping draw that out and like spool it onto a ball or something like, just making sense of all this stuff floating around our minds and how great that can be with working with a therapist or a counselor.
He was an outside party. And, you know, it has that unconditional positive regard.
Damaged Parents: [00:20:26] Yeah. Like there's no judgment. This is where I'm at.
Alison Hughey: [00:20:29] Yes.
Damaged Parents: [00:20:30] Which is helpful. Okay, so later you said, I heard you talk about chronic pain in the back injury. So how did it help? And you talked about music again. So how does the music help? I think you said you had done. That you use the music to help alleviate your chronic pain.
I also heard you felt like doctors weren't hearing you and that, because there wasn't a test that could show the purpose or, definitive purpose of the pain that you also maybe felt a little, I'm going to use the word you maybe felt like you were a little crazy. I mean
Alison Hughey: [00:21:06] yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Damaged Parents: [00:21:09] And so how did you use, or how did you start to realize at that point? Cause it seems like that became a pivotal point before the college and the therapy stuff that, that you started to realize. So explain that to us.
Alison Hughey: [00:21:21] The back injury actually happened through music in a weird way. So I was teaching preschool music classes, and I had a large piano keyboard that I would carry in and out. And I was getting out of my trunk one day and the keyboard snagged on my trunk as I was twisting and lifting, you know, 25 year old me did not know not to twist and lift.
And so, had really, really bad pain ended up like. Being able to barely move and, you know, doing all these tests. And, my, one of my go-to reactions, wherever, whenever I would have a really intense stabbing pain was to slap my leg. It's kind of like, ,if you stubbed your toe and you loudly say owl and like smack your leg or smack something else, and it's like, you're directing a physical sensation on a different part of your body.
That you can control. And you're like channeling that energy in a way. So I, I realized I was doing that and then decided to kind of like play with it and tap out a rhythm. And so I was feeling sensory input on my skin in a different location that was taking my attention away from where the pain was happening in my back.
And then If the pain got really bad instead of screaming, like I say, sometimes felt like I needed to like trying to just think like singing it out and holding it out and like letting it be really loud. But I so played around with different things with that and listening to music and At the time being very frustrated that I wasn't able to play music really because of the pain that was happening and positioning and that sort of thing.
And again, like you mentioned, going to doctors and having that attitude that I felt from several practitioners of, Oh, she's just medication seeking or whatever. And thinking if they can't find a physical causation for my pain, why am I still experiencing this? Maybe I am, addicted to like whatever pain medication they had me on.
And I finally had a recommendation from a former teacher to check out a physical therapist in my area. And she was very compassionate, very much a great listener and very intuitive and did hands on physical therapy with me. So rather than just focusing on Yeah, exercises and stretches that sort of thing, like doing combination of those things.
And also my fascial release and other things, instead of just like this one specific area looking at how are the other parts of my body connected and like, how have I drawn out with tension at the continued pain and how can we release these other things to help. The pain issue that's coming from a lower back.
So she was just phenomenal and really helped me with healing. And I finally got back on track pun intended.
Damaged Parents: [00:24:23] Right? No, it like
Alison Hughey: [00:24:25] Yeah. Okay,
Damaged Parents: [00:24:25] because she was willing to be compassionate and meet you where you were, that also helped with your healing.
Alison Hughey: [00:24:35] Definitely. And just feeling, seen and heard and respected. Like, I feel like there's a big emotional component of why I experience the physical pain for so long.
Damaged Parents: [00:24:46] Okay. Explain that.
Alison Hughey: [00:24:48] Just the going to doctors and having that sense of skepticism on their part and dismissal and that sort of thing also at the time I did not have health insurance. So I was doing a hodgepodge of part-time and music gigs and that kind of thing. So, that was another component to some of the attitudinal things I believe.
Damaged Parents: [00:25:11] So you felt completely judged and wrong. It sounds like. And that sounds like it's not helpful at all when you've got a pain issue that you can't figure out. Cause it sounds like you really wanted to figure it out
And maybe I'm not sure certain, but I'm thinking the doctors might've been getting frustrated and been like, well, it doesn't show it here, so it must not exist in.
Alison Hughey: [00:25:35] Yeah. And that's the way so many medical practitioners are trained and, especially in the United States and the Western world is too, like if there's not a test , to show that this is happening and this is causing the pain, then maybe there's not a source for the pain. I feel like we've come a long way and our understanding of things like that, that aren't as easily put into quantitative boxes or scans in the past 10 years.
But especially with chronic pain, that can be very difficult to, to diagnose and treat and manage. And there are a lot of people who may become addicted to pain medication and abuse it or sell it, and those sorts of things and it's become an epidemic. So I understand why doctors would be hesitant to prescribe opioid pain medications, but at the same time, like they're simple, non pharmacological things like compassion and alternative treatments that could be beneficial.
Damaged Parents: [00:26:34] It doesn't sound like you were taking it to take away the emotional feeling you were taking it to take away a very physical feeling, which I think is a difference between addiction
and non addiction, because the addiction is. I'm in emotional pain. So I'm going to take that medicine, right?
I mean, I think that, and then there's the dependency. It also can happen. So it's like, there's this whole spectrum that makes it so hard. I mean, I also couldn't imagine being in the doctor's shoes because you've got to manage, I'm going to say the political world. And then you've also got to manage from the medical world.
And at the end of the day, you really want to do what's best for the patient. And what does that mean? I don't know. So it's, I think it, at some point you have to just go look for the doctor that you can communicate best with. And maybe sometimes that's not even a doctor. I don't know.
Alison Hughey: [00:27:23] yeah. Yeah. And again, I'm fortunate that my case, I got connected with an awesome physical therapist who took the time to listen and try different things with me.
Damaged Parents: [00:27:34] Okay. Now you also said you would sing those notes or you would tap out some beats or something. Was there anything specific that you found that, that really worked with chronic pain or had you learned something that really works with chronic pain or if someone's got a back injury like that?
Alison Hughey: [00:27:50] Definitely approaches that can help you relax. So I know for my experience when I was going through that My other muscles became very, very tense. My shoulders, especially. I still have to watch that now. Like I just noticed in my posture, I'm leaning forward. My shoulders are tight, but breathing more deeply and breathing with rhythm.
So, tapping as I would inhale and exhale and slowing that down gradually listening to music.
Damaged Parents: [00:28:22] that? So you're saying tapping or breathing in slowly. How do you know if you're not taking those deep breaths and how do you know what beat to tap at? Or do you understand where I'm trying to go? I'm trying to understand how would one figure it out?
Alison Hughey: [00:28:37] So at the time I just did it intuitively with tapping and breathing. Again, my grandmother fortunately showed me like how to take deep breaths when I was a kid and I played with that as I grew up. Flute's my primary instrument. So I'm very used to taking in big inhales and exhaling for a longer counts.
But yeah, as a starter I recommend meeting where your energy is. So, music therapists often use something called the ISO principle, which meets a client where they are with their energy level or with their for instance, their rate of respiration. So if your breath is naturally more shallow, then it's not really realistic or helpful.
To to try to make it super slow all of a sudden. So you want to figure out where you are and then where you want to go. So, if your energy and your attention is super high and you're really, really stressed out and very, very frustrated and you want to feel more relaxed, then it's a good idea to.
Yeah, start with a faster beat pattern. So if you started here and breathing in that out and then gradually slow it down
and then a little slower, just a little at a time that can be helpful and gradually slowing your breath. And doing things like being more aware of your breath pattern and taking in deeper breaths, letting go deeper exhales can sometimes be uncomfortable or provoke anxiety for some people or make you feel a little dizzy.
So if at any point one of those things happens, you can just return to your normal breath and perhaps continue. Yeah, tapping. I'm a big fan of tapping with rhythm for that and for other things, because again, it gives you a physical input. There's a different connection that your body is receiving that sensation, that tactile sensation at the same time that you're hearing it.
So,
Damaged Parents: [00:30:41] So almost like a distraction from. If we're talking about someone with anxiety or chronic pain or whatever, by having the sound and the physical, maybe in some ways that overwhelmed what I've got to think about or what a person has to think about.
Alison Hughey: [00:30:58] There's some element of that and definitely the organization of, of brain connections that are happening. So if you have a rhythmic beat, rhythm is processed on a subconscious level and the, the lizard brain, if you will, like, it's something that we respond to without thinking.
So if you hear somebody walking down the hall and high heels, a lot of times which will end up being in step with that person with the, the click. So
Damaged Parents: [00:31:26] never even thought of that before. Oh my gosh. I
Alison Hughey: [00:31:29] that happens.
Damaged Parents: [00:31:30] I do that.
Alison Hughey: [00:31:31] Yes. So like music sinks up in our body and then with entrainment if you have that steady rhythm going and you're having a physical input of the, yeah. The tactile sensation. There's different connections that are happening in your brain that are you in rhythm. So it helps distract, but then also kind of, switch the brain onto a different track, you know, or onto a different Pattern that can be very calming and the repetition and itself wins a sense of predictability and stability and sense of safety.
Damaged Parents: [00:32:11] I forgot to tell you before again, my hands don't work and I have issues with my legs. So I don't know if you've noticed though. Every time you start making a like a clapping sound or a beat, I start nodding my head.
Is that normal?
Alison Hughey: [00:32:24] It's normal for our bodies to respond to music. And often we don't realize it. Like we can be listening to a song at our toe start tapping it, or head start bobbin. And yeah, they're just these different physical reactions to music that we have that we don't even think about. Then some people get chills or Frisian for music, which has been shown to be linked to an increase in serotonin release in the brain.
So there's like these things that are just automatic responses to music sometimes that are beautiful.
Damaged Parents: [00:32:56] I mean, what I'm hearing from you is that there is such a deep connection in us to music that, I'm also thinking that music with words would impact me as well. Right.
Alison Hughey: [00:33:08] definitely.
Damaged Parents: [00:33:09] if I'm listening to. Cause I don't want to say just words because there are words that are helpful in their words that are not helpful to me. And maybe, and that's where I'm thinking about like the leaning into those feelings. Like sometimes it's helpful to lean into sadness. And I think now that we're talking about it, What I do is I actually look for those songs and I absolutely lean into them. And I cry harder. Does that make sense
Alison Hughey: [00:33:35] absolutely. And I'm a huge advocate and feeling feelings and, feel, deal and heal like. If you just shove your emotions away, that's not healthy for your body. It's not healthy for your mind or life in general. And I had a lot of that disposition earlier in life and it's taken me a while to get further away from that inclination.
So being able to process your emotions, being able to cry when you need to and music moves us in a powerful way. So, if you feel like you need to cry putting on a song, that's going to make you cry can be a great thing. Like if you are super stressed out and somebody just tells you to calm down that usually isn't helpful.
Like if you're feeling really crappy and somebody is like, Oh, put on happy by for real and you'll feel better. No. So I wholeheartedly believe in using music to help release and express emotion, whether it be positive or negative in her mind. But the important thing is not to get stuck there.
So, yeah, if you're feeling really sad and you listened to a couple of sad songs and cry your eyes out, that can be a great emotional release. But if you continue to listen to music purposefully, that's going to make you cry for hours on end or days, then you're making. More headway into being in the emotion for a longer period of time.
Damaged Parents: [00:35:07] Okay, so you can kind of get stuck in the emotion.
So
I hear you saying about depression and of course, happiness, joy. We know I easily go to music and celebrate that. I'm also thinking anger, you know, it's okay to go to those heavy, heavy metal, if you will, or those hard rocks and just kind of lean into that feeling and get it out again.
I'm thinking maybe don't get stuck in it.
Alison Hughey: [00:35:33] Yeah, absolutely. That can be a great way to channel angry energy. There's an Instagram account that I follow called heavy metal therapy that talks a lot about that. And they also include some articles and research around the topic, which is really interesting. So there's different heavier types of music.
That conveyed that energy and I think that that can be really helpful in listening to that music, moving to, it adds another degrade. So like headbanging listened to heavy metal or dancing and like just shaking it out. Bouncing, twerking, whatever, floats your boat to get that energy going or play in a drum too, can be very useful.
If you don't have a drum, you can. Yeah, tap on a table, tap on a bucket make something that can help channel that energy in a physical way as well.
Damaged Parents: [00:36:23] So channeling that energy. I think also what I, I may not be hearing you saying is understand is that when you're using that music and you're leaning into that feeling, maybe then you get a better understanding of, what that feeling means. And then you can figure out where to go from there.
Alison Hughey: [00:36:39] Yes.
Damaged Parents: [00:36:40] Yeah. Okay.
Alison Hughey: [00:36:41] I think depending on the degree of the feeling, it could be something that you're able to explore on her own. It could be something that you can talk over with a friend, or it could be something that you need to talk with a counselor.
Damaged Parents: [00:36:53] Right. So maybe getting a better understanding of where I'm at would allow me to determine. If I'm talking with a friend and it's not getting better, maybe I need to take the next step. And if I'm talking with that person and, I'm still not feeling at peace with the feeling, then I need to take the next step.
Alison Hughey: [00:37:12] yeah,
Damaged Parents: [00:37:13] Okay.
Alison Hughey: [00:37:14] I think there's definitely a lots of steps that we can take
and taking care of our mental health.
Damaged Parents: [00:37:18] Yeah, man. It's, which can be really hard because, you know, I think sometimes you think you got it and then come to find out a little bit later, you don't have it as much as you thought
or some right. Or something triggers it. you're like, Oh
Alison Hughey: [00:37:32] I thought I'd let go of this. I thought I had healed from this. I cry out where's this coming from?
Damaged Parents: [00:37:37] Yeah. Yeah. Or it just triggers it. And it was an experience. It was. It just is some, I don't like to say that. And yet, sometimes I don't have any control over what is triggered and what's not triggered. So, okay. Now you had brought a musical instrument to this call. So
Alison Hughey: [00:37:56] Yes.
Damaged Parents: [00:37:56] tell tell us about the musical instrument and tell us what you're going to teach us.
Alison Hughey: [00:38:00] So I have a kalimba here in my hands, and it's an instrument from Africa and it's a beautiful sound. And you won't be able to see it on the podcast, of course, but it's got this rounded wooden body. And so the vibration on it is really, really nice as you're holding it, you can feel the vibration of the sound on her hands.
So, again, I really liked that tactile sensory component. Touch is one of my top love languages. So I think that's one of the reasons, anyway, so gonna play a little example of the ISO principle with this instrument. So.
This is kind of a walking speed,
tapping your toe along with that. Speed up gradually.
Okay. You might feel a sense of more energy and playfulness, or it might make you feel like you're really, really wound up depending on where your mood is.
Damaged Parents: [00:38:50] I I definitely an increase in energy. Like the sensation. You know, I kind of went from calm to, Oh, I've got to speed up in my, I think I felt my heartbeat increase is that that's something that you expect to happen then.
Alison Hughey: [00:39:10] So often when we listen to music that gradually gets faster, it will raise our heart rate a bit. It will potentially raise our blood pressure a little bit. It, can make us move faster if we're engaging in like exercise or walking. Again with that like subconscious reaction with rhythm and steady beat patterns.
And then conversely, if we have music that gradually gets slower, It can help us relax a bit more. It can decrease our heart rate or blood pressure a bit. It can slow our respirations a bit. So, it, music has such a big impact on our bodies and it's really, really cool and something that you can see here and feel a lot in movies, TV, and ads often.
I think about the jaws song and so many suspense movies that have done it. Dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, like that kind of speeding up. Makes us get on the edge of our seat. We know something's about to happen.
Damaged Parents: [00:40:07] Right. So it sounds like what you also said is the opposite is true. So if someone is maybe experiencing a panic or an anxiety, then they could find some music or maybe you, know exactly where they need to look for that. That could start out with those faster beats and slow down.
okay. So where would people look for this purpose? I mean, I know what's out there, so I'm certain, I'm pretty certain if there's music therapy it's out there. So where do they look to find it, and is it easily labeled, it says this helps decrease anxiety or is it, or do you just kind of have to play and find out what works for you?
Alison Hughey: [00:40:49] There are some albums, some songs that are labeled as music for anxiety or music for relaxation, things like that. I personally think that music is a universal language, but it's a subjective experience and unique experience. So my advice would be to find songs that you love, find songs that you love that are faster and slower.
And then put those in a series where the first song is really fast. The last song is slower and then fill in that middle. With songs that gradually get slower. So that way it's music that you enjoy. It's music that you have a personal connection with. You can choose songs that potentially affirm thoughts that you want to have, and emotions that you want to process throughout that playlist.
I have some example playlist on my Spotify account. I love making playlists and make different ones for different things. And I have a PDF that explains that process. I sent you the link earlier. That's primarily with getting out of work mode, but it's the same principle in the ISO principle of starting where you're at and where you're feeling and go into a different mood state, or a different energy state with music.
Damaged Parents: [00:42:09] Right. So being able to have a little more input, if you will, into the emotions of what's happening by utilizing music.
Alison Hughey: [00:42:19] Yes. So three things you want the audience to know tips or tools. And we may or may not have already talked about them, or you just want them to have this knowledge.
Damaged Parents: [00:42:30] If they're in a difficult spot and want to use music to get out of it.
Alison Hughey: [00:42:35] We have access to millions, if not billions of songs in the palm of our hand, these days for most of us and music is more than entertainment. It can be awesome entertainment that can have profound impact on our mood and our thoughts and how we see things, how we experience the world. So, that would be number one, to look at music in a different way.
The second thing I'd like to share is there are so many ways that music can be beneficial to us. So, there's listening to music for fun and entertainment. There's listening to songs with intention, for, you know, healthy coping strategies for connection, for managing anxiety, things like that.
They're sound healing and sound therapy, sound bath. Those sorts of things, which can be wonderful, mindful meditations with music and sound. There's also music therapy, that's a clinical approach. So that's more individualized and uses a treatment plan to approach specific goals through music interventions.
So there's a big range of ways that music can help us all.
Damaged Parents: [00:43:43] Music therapy uses the music and there's goals, just like in a regular counseling session. And I'm thinking there's probably homework too.
Alison Hughey: [00:43:53] Yes often.
Damaged Parents: [00:43:55] Wow. That's I
did not
Alison Hughey: [00:43:57] I wanted to make sure speak on that and, you know, I get really, really excited about music and self and and that being something that we can access, like whenever, however but then also, you know, music therapy being a separate but related. Step on that bridge. And for more information on music therapy people can visit the American music therapy association, which is musictherapy.org.
And there's a ton of information and research on that site.
Damaged Parents: [00:44:25] That's fantastic. I really had never thought of it that way, but it makes so much sense.
Alison Hughey: [00:44:31] it's awesome. There's so many layers. Of potential ways that music therapists use music and sessions too. Like there's playing music, listening to music making playlists could be an intervention and music therapy sessions as well. But there's the different intention and depth purpose and and therapeutic relationship that happens with music therapy. so those are two things. Gosh, third thing just simply put is to to use music as a time machine. Sometimes. So if you have a memory you'd like to revisit or a feeling you'd like to revisit, try putting on songs from that particular period in your life. And it could be songs that came out in that time, or it could be songs that you were surrounded by in that time.
So my parents are big classic rock fans and pink Floyd fan. So even though I wasn't around. And Pink Floyd's Heyday. I heard a lot of their music in my childhood because that's what my parents listened to. So I think that can be a fun exercise and also feeling how powerful music can be on her mood and mindset.
Damaged Parents: [00:45:38] I'm totally going to investigate this.
Alison Hughey: [00:45:41] It's so much fun. Yeah.
Damaged Parents: [00:45:43] Thank you so much, Allison.
Alison Hughey: [00:45:45] You're welcome.
Damaged Parents: [00:45:46] I love being surprised and today I was surprised. So thank you for that.
Alison Hughey: [00:45:51] Thank you. And thank you, Angela, for the questions you asked, like, especially Like going through a depression in college, like there's a lot of things I had never thought about. So, I really appreciate that.
Damaged Parents: [00:46:01] No problem.
Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Relatively Damaged by Damaged Parents. We've really enjoyed talking to Alison about how music can be used for many different things, including managing pain, anxiety, depression, and more. We especially liked when she showed us how music can increase our heartbeat or decrease it based on the tempo.
To unite with other damaged people, connect with us on Tik TOK. Look for damaged parents. We'll be here next week. Still relatively damaged. See you then.
