Episode 20: Fearing the World
Lisa Dimino White
About Lisa: Since Lisa was 6 years old, she has struggled and currently struggles with anxiety, fear, and Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD). Despite that, she’s one of the most optimistic and positive people you'll ever meet. Her challenges don’t define her, and neither do yours.
With over 20 years of experience in marketing, communications, and event management, she now focuses solely on what she believes can change the world: joy. She helps others seek, create, and spread it through her book and podcast, both titled Bursting with Happiness, speaking engagements, writing, and my coaching programs.
You may find her:
www.thejoyseeker.com
www.instagram.com/lisadiminowhite
www.facebook.com/lisadiminowhite
Podcast transcript below:
Lisa Dimino White Podcast
Damaged Parents: [00:00:00] Welcome to Relatively Damaged Podcast by Damaged Parents were fearful, lonely, scared people come to learn. Maybe just, maybe we're all a little bit damaged. Someone once told me it's safe to assume 50% of the people I meet are struggling and feel wounded in some way. I would venture to say it's closer to 100%.
Every one of us is either currently struggling or has struggled with something that made us feel less than like we aren't good enough. We aren't capable. We are relatively damaged. And that's what we're here to talk about.
In my ongoing investigation of the damaged self. I want to better understand how others view their own challenges. Maybe it's not so much about the damage. Maybe it's about our perception and how we deal with it. There is a deep commitment to becoming who we are meant to be. How do you do that? How do you find balance after a damaging experience?
My hero is the damaged person. The one who faces seemingly insurmountable odds to come out on the other side, whole those who stare directly into the face of adversity with unyielding persistence to discover their purpose. These are the people who inspire me to be more fully me. Not in spite of my trials.
But because of them, let's hear from another hero. Today's topic includes sensitive material, which may not be appropriate for children. This podcast is provided for informational purposes only, and is not intended as advice. The opinions expressed here were strictly those of the person who gave them.
Today, we're going to talk with Lisa Dimino White. She has many roles in her life, mother, daughter, sister, wife, and more. We'll talk about how she's learning to become comfortable, being uncomfortable due to her obsessive compulsive disorder challenges. Let's talk
Welcome Lisa to Relatively Damaged. How are you today?
Lisa Dimino White: [00:02:00] Great. Great to be here.
Damaged Parents: [00:02:02] Awesome. Yeah, I'm so glad to have you. I was, I was reading the form you filled out before you came on the show and I saw something that I really liked, that you said that forcing yourself to be comfortable being uncomfortable.
And so I'm hoping throughout the process of you just telling us about your struggle, that you can dig into that.
Lisa Dimino White: [00:02:26] Yes. I'm happy to it. It changed my life, that realization, and I think it has the power to change all of our lives in some way, with whatever struggle we have.
Damaged Parents: [00:02:38] Yeah, so important. Okay. So why don't you go ahead. I don't know too much about your specific struggle at this point. So I need you to just tell us what, what happened. And during that process, I'll ask you some questions.
Lisa Dimino White: [00:02:54] Yeah. So my struggle began as early as I can remember specifically. I remember being six years old and my poor father was at the kitchen table, changing a dead watch battery out of his watch and putting a new one in. And I was shocked at how small that wash battery was. It was shocking and scary because immediately I became consumed with the idea that that would be very easy to swallow.
And all of a sudden my throat started burning and I couldn't get out of my head. The idea that what if. He left it on the table accidentally. And somehow somebody ate it at dinner tonight because he was doing the watch battery changing process on the kitchen table. And I couldn't shake it. And it got to the point where I wouldn't stop asking, are you sure you throw it away?
Are you sure that it's not still somewhere where somebody could be harmed by it? Are you sure that your hands don't still have battery residue? On them and maybe you should wash them with soap just to be sure it started a spiral. And that's the very first specific incident I remember of anxiety and fear and feeling like I was responsible for my family's safety
Damaged Parents: [00:04:14] So you were really worried about this tiny watch battery. Were there other siblings around already were there, I mean, were you worried more because you had a sibling or do you think it just came into you and it was just, I've got to worry about everyone.
Lisa Dimino White: [00:04:31] Yes everyone. My brother is three years younger than me. So if I was six, he was probably three, maybe four ish. And. I just remember carrying the weight of the world on my shoulders and the world being my world, my parents, my brother, my family and myself, our safety was of paramount importance. And I don't know why I struggled in that way, but I did.
And it soon became very clear to my parents after about a year that this was not normal. This was something that. Needed professional attention, because the only thing that would make me feel better was getting reassurances from my mom, constantly constant reassurance.
Damaged Parents: [00:05:16] what does constant reassert assurance mean to you?
Lisa Dimino White: [00:05:19] Mom, are you sure this pain that I'm feeling doesn't mean I'm going to die? Are you sure that you lock the door? Are you sure that nothing nobody's going to come in the house tonight? Are you sure that everything's turned off? There's not going to be a fire. Constant worries. And reassurances is what I needed to some.
Damaged Parents: [00:05:37] every five minutes, every hour, every day,
Lisa Dimino White: [00:05:41] When something came up. So, cause I could live, nobody knew about this outside of my family. I mean, I was a pretty normal kid. You know, I was happy. I've always been very positive, very optimistic. But also very fearful. And my fears usually surfaced at home with my parents, which makes sense, because that's where you feel.
The most authentically yourself is at home when you're amongst people you love. And so it seemed like no matter, so I would say daily. My mom, something would come up that would get into my head. That would make me need her reassurance. So my poor mother, my poor father, you know, they did their best and.
Sometimes I would accept what they say, but sometimes I was a dog with a bone, , this is not good. Something bad can happen. I remember being terrified to go to the mall because I don't know if you remember, but in the eighties there were kids being kidnapped. And of course at that time I had a very hard time differentiating between possible and probable.
So if I heard on the news that a kid was kidnapped or abducted, that meant it was a very real threat. And, and so that was where my discomfort came into play, whereas, well, it's possible. It's possible. And so we have to avoid that at all costs. That possibility is what's making me anxious. So we're not just, we're just not going to go the mall.
We're just not going to go. We're just not doing it.
Damaged Parents: [00:07:09] so you totally froze and stay home or would want everyone to stay home where you thought it was safe. Period.
Lisa Dimino White: [00:07:16] Yes. Yes. My poor parents never went on a date night because I was terrified that there would be a car accident on their way home and that they would die. It was, and I remember my mom telling me, I remember her saying Lisa, I lived for 30 years before you were born. And I did just fine. Meaning, you don't need to worry so much.
I know how to be safe, but in my mind it was my responsibility. I remember we would go to Kmart. Kmart was the target back in the day. And we would go, and my brother who was a few years younger than me, would get very bored very quickly and say, can I go look at the toys? And my mom would allow him, she'd say, yeah, go look at the toys.
And I'm like, are you crazy? Go look at the toys. There are people who will kidnap him. So I would go. I would be his personal bodyguard and stand behind him while he would look at the GI Joe's. And I would love to go into the aisle next to him, to look at maybe the cabbage patch kids or the Barbies, but I wouldn't, because it was my responsibility to stand there behind him, like his own little personal bodyguard and make sure nothing bad happened.
So for some reason I felt a lot of responsibility.
Damaged Parents: [00:08:31] Yeah. And I've got to know, did brother ever get mad at you for this? I mean, I'm assuming it continued on throughout childhood.
Lisa Dimino White: [00:08:39] Yes. Yes, it did get to a point where leave me alone, leave me alone. Let me be. So yes, there were some. Tense moments when he was little. And I would just go along with whatever, you know, I'm standing there behind him while he's looking at the GI Joe's he didn't care if I was there or not. But yes, as I became more worried and more concerned, he would, leave me alone.
What's wrong with you? That kind of thing.
Damaged Parents: [00:09:04] yeah. And what did that feel like when you've got your little brother saying this, your mom, I'm assuming that that comment that she made about living for 30 years before you came along was not the only comment of it's. Okay. We're going to be fine or things like that. What did that feel like to you?
And when these people are, when your family is telling you this
Lisa Dimino White: [00:09:28] Okay. I knew rationally. They were right. I mean, I know my mom is a capable adult and she didn't need, a kid to watch out for her and protect her from the fears and the dangers of the world. But when you're in it, and you believe to your very core that the world is dangerous and that something bad will happen unless we are vigilant against it.
It's hard to. Feel okay about that. And for some reason, I had tasked myself with that responsibility. And so, you know, and part of it too, is my parents would try to give me that it's okay, it's going to be fine. But there came a point where I didn't quite believe them because I knew they just wanted me to feel better and they would say anything they could to make me feel better. To help me not feel that distress. So when they would say, it's fine, don't worry about it. It's going to be okay. Sometimes I didn't quite believe them. And so I remember when I was eight, my mom had made an appointment and we went to talk to a child psychologist it was so helpful because. This lady. I mean, she was, she specialized in working with children.
So right there, you know, she had the office that was all set up for kids. You know, we had a, she had a. Bookshelf filled with board games and toys and her, her strategy was to get us playing a game so that then she could weave into the conversation questions about how I was feeling and what my strategies were.
And the irony is she would say a lot of the same things my parents would say, but because she was an impartial third person. Who had no skin in the game? I felt like what she would say carried more weight than what my parents would say.
Damaged Parents: [00:11:09] so when your parents said, it's fine, don't worry. Were you feeling dismissed by them? And yet when this other person, the psychologist, the child psychologist, when they would say it, maybe it wasn't didn't feel so dismissive or what can you, was there a difference? I don't know.
Lisa Dimino White: [00:11:28] I think it was her credibility. I mean, this was a professional, this was a woman who, you know, I mean, when we grow up with our parents, we don't see them as human. We see them as mom and dad. And this was an, a woman who was a professional who. Was an impartial person who could give me that outside perspective.
And she would offer tools. I remember specifically, she said, let's try and experiment instead of whenever you feel an ache or a pain or a worry, instead of running to your mom to, to get that reassurance, to ask for that reassurance, write it on a piece of paper and put it in a bowl. And that way I wasn't.
Relying as heavily on my mom's reassurance. And I would hopefully be able to in time, see that nothing bad happened, even if I didn't have to get that reassurance from my mom. So little strategies like that. and they did help. They did help.
Damaged Parents: [00:12:24] It sounds like that's a really good tool to start getting you to be self-reliant instead of dependent on mom and dad.
Lisa Dimino White: [00:12:31] Exactly. And, but it really, as I look back now, it really was all about that feeling of discomfort. I needed something to make that discomfort go away and what I, in my mind decided without even realizing it, the only thing that would make it go away is telling and verbalizing to my parents, my fear and getting that reassurance.
So it was a cycle and. That discomfort had to go away immediately. And the only way to do that was to get that reassurance. So we were stuck in a cycle and my poor parents, they knew they were, enabling me in a way by doing that. But they're my parents and they didn't want to see me suffer. So it's a very difficult scenario for any one to be in when they have somebody who has these fears and this anxiety, but nobody on the outside knew.
Nobody. My friends didn't know nobody cause I, I still would go to sleepovers. I mean, it was very interesting how most of the fears that I had came up when I was not busy when I had time to dwell. So my mom and dad got me involved in, you know, activities because what, when I was with people and busy, I didn't have time to think about those things that worried me as much.
So that was an interesting pattern.
Damaged Parents: [00:13:46] Yeah, and it doesn't sound like there was a big trauma that triggered it. It was literally the watch on the table and the super tiny battery is the first time you remember having these feelings
Lisa Dimino White: [00:14:00] Yes, I could have had them before, but that's the one I remember. And then it would, and then it would evolve. I remember shortly after that, seeing a staple. On the floor. And all of a sudden my throat started feeling scratchy. And I told my mom, I think I swallowed that staple. And she's like, you mean the one that we can both see under the table?
I said, yeah, my throat is scratchy. And I feel like somehow I swallowed it. Now try to argue that right neck. It's not wild. It's just, for whatever reason, I was afraid of death dying sickness. Something bad happening someone I love getting hurt. I don't know what triggered it, but once it started, it didn't stop until I got some specific tools to work through it.
Damaged Parents: [00:14:48] now. So did you feel panicked when these thoughts were coming up? It sounds like if your throat was closing up or you were feeling like it was closing up, was your heart pounding too when
Lisa Dimino White: [00:14:58] Oh yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, for sure. For sure. And, and I didn't have the, the tools to say, Oh, it's just it's it's in my mind. I wouldn't say I had a panic attack because, once I got focused on something else, I would forget quote, unquote, about that fear. But in that moment, I can remember just being very, I mean, if my parents weren't home from work at the time, they were supposed to be home from work I'm at the window, just obsessing, just watching and waiting.
And it was just this cloud of fear that something bad would happen because I loved my family so much that I didn't want something bad to happen to them. And so I found myself. Very nervous about something bad, potentially happening. So like I said, at school, nobody knew. And for the most part, once I got that help, middle school, high school, even college, everything was, pretty good.
I mean, I would still be anxious about certain things, but not to the point where it was keeping me from living my best life and being as joyful as I knew I could be. Things went sideways again. When I got married,
Damaged Parents: [00:16:07] Okay. Explain
Lisa Dimino White: [00:16:09] I didn't live with my husband before we got married. So I got married at 23. I was relatively young. And when we got married, we obviously bought a place moved in together. And Oh my gosh, my anxiety spiked through the roof and I couldn't understand what was happening because I hadn't felt like this since I was a kid to the point where I would obsess and worry and have these fears that I needed to be reassured.
Everything was okay. And guess who was now my new reassurance partner?
Damaged Parents: [00:16:43] Your husband,
Lisa Dimino White: [00:16:44] husband, Jonathan
Damaged Parents: [00:16:45] man. Did that feel really hard for, tell me about that feeling. Cause I'm thinking it would be really hard to all of a sudden put so much pressure on a new husband.
Lisa Dimino White: [00:16:55] it was the worst feeling ever because I, I never, and it wasn't like I was keeping this from him. I was very joyful. I was happy. I really wasn't feeling that anxiety. Until about two months into our marriage. And I think part of the problem was I went into it expecting to be a perfect little wife and making perfect little dinners and having a perfect little home.
And when I started to not be quote perfect, I started slipping into a mindset of fear and of losing. Something, maybe it was my marriage or someone or disappointing him. And I actually, you're going to love this. I still lived in my hometown. I did a quick search and found that my child's psychologist was still practicing.
So guess who called her? Me now, the last time I saw her, I was nine. I was now 23. I called her on a whim and I said, I talked to her assistant and I said, Hey, she helped me as a kid. I'm wondering if she can help me now she could. And so I actually got therapy from my childhood therapist and we sat there and I just.
I, I didn't understand why this was happening. What why after all these years was this resurfacing. And she said, when people have tendencies, like I do, when we have major life changes, often we resort back to. Our default. And my default is anxiety and fear and obsession about safety. And she was totally right.
She was totally right. And so she helped me navigate what was now diagnosed as OCD
and that word, that term did not come up when I was a kid. But it did when I was in my twenties in this new phase.
Damaged Parents: [00:18:43] okay. So OCD to S to some people is, you know, they have to clean like a table inch by inch or centimeter by centimeter and do it perfectly for you. At least. That's my understanding. So for you. It was the cons, the obsessive compulsiveness over other people and whether or not they were safer. Was it more than that?
Lisa Dimino White: [00:19:08] It became more than that. Obsessive compulsive disorder is really all about needing to make that feeling of discomfort go away. That's the basis of it. So when we have an obsessive thought for me, it now focused on germs. It now focused on dirt. I would drop a pen on the ground. Most people would pick it up and not think twice about it.
I couldn't do that because all I could think of was the dirt that was on the floor is now on the pen. And the pen is now in my hand. And my hand is now contaminated.
Damaged Parents: [00:19:40] so you couldn't even pick up the pen.
Lisa Dimino White: [00:19:42] I could pick up the pen. I would immediately need to wash my hands and wash the pen because those were now. I'm sitting there with my hands, having whatever dirt is on the floor, on my hands, that obsession could only be resolved by the compulsion of washing my hands right away.
So it became this cycle of somethings may be scary and I needed to do whatever it was to stop that feeling, make it go away. And so we, we started seeing patterns. we started seeing instances where I needed to take care of that right away. I needed to, I had fears of hurting other people unintentionally.
I remember when we would have guests over for dinner, I'd loved having guests over for dinner. But I was so terrified that I would accidentally make them ill from my cooking. I'm not the best cook in the world as a biz, Angela, but I was terrified of what if I didn't wash my hands after touching the chicken and everybody gets salmonella and I cause people to get sick that became so crippling that I had a hard time even.
Having people over for fear of unintentionally harming them.
Damaged Parents: [00:20:56] So it wasn't about them coming over. Always because of what they could bring in. It was more about what you might do to them?
Lisa Dimino White: [00:21:06] That was part of it. Yes, I did make people take their shoes off. I had a thing about shoes in my house because again, dirt from outside and in public spaces, I didn't want in my house cause that's just gross. That was the instance of having people in my space, but no, when it would come to having people come over, it was more about me harming them unintentionally with my cooking.
And I think part of it is because I was so I I'm insecure about my cooking anyway, so it could potentially harm somebody is just a horrifying thought. I can remember going to the grocery store and one of the carts had a mysterious white powder on it. And I didn't know what it was. I mean, it could have been laundry detergent, but I was so terrified of that because what if I put my, like, let's say they even clean it.
Let's say eventually, the grocery store employees notice that they cleaned it off. Good to go. Yeah. Not in my world. I would always take it the next step. Well, what if the, what if there were still traces of it on there? And what if I put my food? In that cart and what if the traces of it got on my food and then I brought it home and we cooked it and we got the second died.
Damaged Parents: [00:22:16] okay. And this is in your it's after at 23, 24 years old,
Lisa Dimino White: [00:22:21] So when I would go to that specific grocery store, I would never use a cart.
Damaged Parents: [00:22:25] how did you shop
Lisa Dimino White: [00:22:27] I with my arms
Damaged Parents: [00:22:28] and just
Lisa Dimino White: [00:22:29] or I'd go to another grocery
Damaged Parents: [00:22:30] Multiple trips
Lisa Dimino White: [00:22:32] I would either carry whatever I could in my arms or go to a different grocery store that didn't have the mysterious white powder cart situation
Damaged Parents: [00:22:41] that had never had the mysterious
Lisa Dimino White: [00:22:43] to my knowledge.
Damaged Parents: [00:22:44] right. To you're. Okay. Right. Because you can maybe acknowledge now that it, it maybe doesn't matter, but back then,
Lisa Dimino White: [00:22:53] There's no way I could have done it there. The idea of now, first of all, the probability of me getting that specific cart we know is very low, but as you know, from my previous experiences with this as a kid, I couldn't understand probable versus possible if it was possible that I could be using that grocery cart, I'm not going in that store.
And if I am, I'm using my arms to carry everything or a hand basket,
Damaged Parents: [00:23:20] Oh, wow.
Lisa Dimino White: [00:23:21] because in my mind with my luck, I'm going to get that cart that had the white powder and my therapist. This is all what I'm talking to her about in my twenties. When I first got married and. She called me out. She said like I wouldn't fly because there was a possibility of the plane going down.
I'm not doing that. Are you out of your mind? She called me out on it. She said, Lisa, you're a bit narcissistic. Aren't you? What's what do you, excuse me, think about it. You think you are so special that one in a million chance of. A plane crash or getting something from this cart that you think could be potentially deadly.
You really think you're quite special. Don't you? Wow. That resonated with me so deeply because she was totally right, right.
Damaged Parents: [00:24:10] Okay. So explain that feeling when she told you though, like what was happening inside of you when she's calling you out on this?
Lisa Dimino White: [00:24:17] Just totally right. I mean, all I could do was say, Oh my gosh, You're so right. And that was the first time I realized that possible did not mean probable that you have to look at facts and statistics and data and life. If you try to live your life in a way that it is only a hundred percent guaranteed, you're safe. It's not really a whole lot of life. Is it? And so, and, and she, that pointed out that I take risks all the time without realizing it, going to the store, driving my car, you know, to the grocery store or whatever it is I do that I don't think about is still risky. I just don't realize it. And so she brought that to my mind as well.
That she's totally right. These other things that I do, I don't think about it, but. They are risky. I mean, you can get in an accident, two blocks from your house, but I wasn't conscious of it. Now, what we do, what we did was we did some exposure therapy.
Damaged Parents: [00:25:15] explain that
Lisa Dimino White: [00:25:16] it was tough. So it's exactly how it sounds touching something that made me extremely anxious sitting with that feeling.
Sitting with that discomfort, which was very, very hard because I don't like being uncomfortable. I want to do whatever I can in that moment to get rid of that discomfort, whether it's wash my hands, clean something rigorously. Whatever I need to do, um, go back home to make sure I lock the door. that was an instance.
The checking compulsion, I did have that as well. But I learned to resist longer and longer. And the beauty of that is the longer you go, the stronger you get, because you realize. Nothing bad happened. Nothing happened. Nothing became of what I was worried about that was going to take place. And the more you do it, the stronger you get, I mean, there were days where I felt like such a rock star because I resisted washing my hands after touching something that I felt uncomfortable with.
And I could even remember telling Jonathan, get this, Jonathan, I touch that over there. And I'm not washing my hands intentionally. Like I would bring him into my success because he knew how hard it was for me. And of course, a sweet as he is, he would encourage me and support me and feel so proud of me.
And that really built my confidence.
Damaged Parents: [00:26:40] Mm. So it helped to have someone around that was being supportive. But I have to know the first time you did the exposure therapy, right? W were you looking at maybe 30 seconds worth of success or less? And then how did you, it sounds like what you did to build on that was just keep doing it and try and go for longer.
So can you explain what that was like in those moments of waiting.
Lisa Dimino White: [00:27:07] Yes. So the distraction method was huge for me. Let's say, for me, the biggest thing that I used to hate touching still do is the keypad. When you pay for groceries, you put your card in, Oh God, it just kills me. It's like, are you kidding me with this? And I have a compulsion to wipe my hands right away, wash it as soon as I could, I would intentionally fight it.
I would come home, not, not do it. Right. When I got home, give it a minute, give it a five minutes, but I would go for a walk or get distracted, intentionally distract myself. And then I look at the clock and say, wow, it's been five minutes. Okay. That's that's good. That's huge. And I would make a note of it because the real success in beating this is, or living with this, I'll never beat it.
I'll always be fearful in some capacity. The trick is. To fear less. I'm never going to be fearless, but I need to fear less so that I can live the most joyful, happiest life I can. That's the goal. If I strive to only be happy when I'm fearless, that's not realistic. So it's something that I'm managing and certainly always thinking of, but when I can distract myself and then the next time something like that happens, a key thing to do is think back to. A time where something similar happened and how I was able to push through that. There's no reason why I can't push through this too. And so it's really becomes a mind game.
Damaged Parents: [00:28:38] right. It sounds like. The kind of what was going through your mind and it's something I've used for myself as well is statistically speaking. I've made it through 100% of my challenges to date. So I'm chances are I'm going to make it through this one too. Right. And, I am also thinking, having that support was tremendous. Sounds like that was super, super important. So you didn't have somebody cutting you down, like I can't believe you only made it a minute or.
Lisa Dimino White: [00:29:10] No, no, he was ex and of course I enjoyed being able to tell my victories to my therapist, to be able to say, this is how I'm doing. This is, she would, and she would remind me, that's huge. I mean, five minutes is fantastic and then five became 10 and 10 became 20. And, but what was one of the hardest parts was. The embarrassment. I felt with my new husband, I wrote about this in my book. It's called Bursting with Happiness. And I wrote about this because it's embarrassing. I mean, here I was not the same woman. He married. I wasn't, I, before we got married, I was joyful. I was happy. I wasn't obsessive over these.
Weird things. I wasn't scared all the time. I was just high on love, you know, I really was. And then when normal life started, we got married, it was wonderful. And I realized I wasn't feeling as, as confident as I thought I would. I wasn't, I just didn't have that confidence that I had had previously. My expectations for marriage were it's hard, but I didn't think it would be.
So there was that too. It was a lot of embarrassment. And he came with me to a doctor's appointment because he wanted to know what he should do. Should he offer me those reassurances? When I asked, is that enabling me? Is he doing me a disservice by doing that? Because he wanted to make me feel better.
Cause he saw me in pain. He saw me struggling and he wanted to do what he could to make me feel better. But also to help me get better. Not just feel better. And I can remember sitting on the couch next to him and holding my hand. It was one of my early appointments with her when I was in my twenties.
And I'm just sobbing like an idiot because I hear him asking these questions and it was an almost out of body experience that they're talking about me. I'm the one who's. So scared and insecure. And who is this person? Cause that's not who I knew I was, but yet I had these obstacles that I couldn't get through on my own for whatever reason.
Damaged Parents: [00:31:12] The thing I keep hearing from you though, is courage and bravery. I mean, to have that much fear and that much concern and to still live and to still go outside of your house, I'm just hearing courage to keep going because you kept looking for solutions.
Lisa Dimino White: [00:31:32] Oh yeah. I wasn't about to, to, to say this is my life. This is it. No way, because. I knew in my gut, I deserved to be happy at deserve to be joyful because I'm enjoyful person, I'm an optimistic person. And so I knew that I was going to do whatever it took. Even the difficulties of getting uncomfortable to try to face these fears and deal with them, head on.
I knew I was going to attack it because life's. Too wonderful to not enjoy as best we can. And so if there's help out there, I'm going to get it, I'm going to get it. I was very determined. and I think you're right. The easier thing could have been to just say, well, this is how I am take it or leave it.
And, and I didn't want that for my husband. I didn't want that for my future kids. I didn't want that for me.
Damaged Parents: [00:32:21] Yeah, that would be really hard because now you're a, a mom now. Right?
Lisa Dimino White: [00:32:26] Yeah. So, so this was 20 years ago and fast forward, I got pregnant eight years later. So I was in my thirties. The pregnancy was hard. My first, David was born in 2008. He's 12 now. And that was tough. I wrote about it in the book and I actually, while writing the book, consulted with Jonathan, my husband, to see if my recollection was the same as his, the pregnancy was harder than when David was a baby.
Because when I was pregnant, I felt such pressure. I said, Oh gosh, it is all up to me to keep this baby alive until he's ready to come out into the world. And. I was very nervous, obviously, as you can imagine, every twitch, every feeling, I remember getting a shock at the grocery store when I did one of those self-checkouts and I called the doctor right away.
I'm like, I just got a little stack shock. Do I need to come in for a sonogram? I mean, this is the poor doctors. They're like, Oh my gosh, she's calling again. I didn't care. I was like, you know what? This is what I have to do to get through this. And I'm going to do what I have to do, but when, David was born.
He thought Jonathan agreed. I wasn't over the top because I didn't want my issues to interfere with my kid being a kid. I was very aware of that. And Jonathan is my polar opposite. Oh, he'll be fine. Oh, he'll be fine. I'm like, no, he needs a jacket. He needs a jacket. It's cold out. I mean the big jacket debate was the biggest issues we had in our house.
When that kid was a baby.
Damaged Parents: [00:33:53] so every time it was cold outside, you guys are debating about jackets.
Lisa Dimino White: [00:33:57] 100 percent. He doesn't need a jacket. I remember my poor baby. We went out early in the morning to run errands and I had him in a snow suit. And in my defense, Colorado is chile in the mornings. And then the sun comes out and it really heats things up. But I had the poor baby in a snow suit. He was fine.
We did our errands. We got to like the third store. It was like noon. I took this little hood off, the kid is dripping with sweat. I'm like, ah, okay. I should've realized that.
Damaged Parents: [00:34:25] Did you laugh in that moment though? Did you laugh?
Lisa Dimino White: [00:34:28] I did. I was like, Oh mommy. So sorry, because I didn't want him to catch cold, so you know, but Jonathan agreed that, I was not crazy.
I was not ridiculous. Or over the top, I was just a normal neurotic mom. And, and I, I agree with that. I do. So I have another child, Katherine, she's nine. Amazing. I think for the most part, I'm a pretty, pretty relaxed mom. My kids go out, they do their thing. I'm confident in their ability to make decisions.
Although I will tell you, it's a constant struggle. About a year or two ago, David came home from playing with his friends after just a couple of minutes and he looks sad and I said, buddy, what's wrong. Oh, all my friends went to the grocery store. Now the grocery stores across the street, you have to cross a four-lane road, but there's a crosswalk and a stoplight, you know, it's relatively safe.
And I said, well, you could've with them. And he was like, are you kidding? Really? And I was like, yeah, just be safe, stay together and be safe. Awesome. So he runs out, goes to catch up with his friends and I am feeling like a rockstar. I'm like, would you look at me? Look at my growth. And then two minutes later, I'm like, Oh my God, what did I just do?
I can't believe I let him go to the store. Like I started to panic and then I forced myself the possible versus probable he's. He knows what he's doing. He's 11 years old. He's with a group of kids. It's the middle of the day. Relax, Lisa relax. And I did. And he came home and I felt a sigh of relief, but it's always a struggle for me, but I'm very mindful of it.
Damaged Parents: [00:36:02] So you have to keep these internal conversations going regularly.
Lisa Dimino White: [00:36:07] 100% percent, a hundred percent. So fast forward to March, 2020. And what do you think would be the response for a germaphobic OCD, anxious, fearful, neurotic mess. When she hears the word COVID for the first time.
Damaged Parents: [00:36:25] I'm thinking you probably wanted to lock your family in the house and never leave again.
Lisa Dimino White: [00:36:31] I didn't want to Angela, I did.
Damaged Parents: [00:36:33] You did.
Lisa Dimino White: [00:36:34] You bet your butt. I did. So yeah, this was confirmation that there really is some danger out there. And this is real. I mean, this is not just one of the things I made up in my head. This stuff is real and I am not playing around. I locked us from March to June in the house.
We went nowhere. We interacted with no one, because again, is it possible to get this illness? If we go out in public? Yes. Then we're not going out in public.
Damaged Parents: [00:37:04] So not even going for walks outside.
Lisa Dimino White: [00:37:06] went for walks outdoors with just us, not with friends, not with extended family, just the four of us. We only interacted with each other.
Damaged Parents: [00:37:16] okay. I'm I'm, I'm guessing masks on
outside the house, no matter what, not even, even if you're not gonna potentially see anyone.
Lisa Dimino White: [00:37:26] Correct. And your hand washing habits must be up to my standards
Damaged Parents: [00:37:30] Which are.
Lisa Dimino White: [00:37:31] Oh. If 20 seconds is recommended, a minute is better. So I need to see soap. I need to see leather. I will send you buck back into the bathroom. If it's not done properly, I was. The most miserable I have ever been in my entire life ever.
I felt so passionately that I have to protect my family no matter what, and this is a real threat. And so we, we didn't get food delivered because that was questionable. That was questionable. So we did get groceries delivered cause we had no choice, but I had a very rigorous decontamination process where if my poor child, which he did grabbed a bag of chips before it went through the process, I yelled and shouted and.
Forced him to go wash his hands again. I mean, it was extreme, I just, I couldn't, I, and part of it too, is I kept feeling like, all right, so another month, another month, okay. This has got to, the threat has got to come to an end soon. This can't just keep going. Right. Cause you can do anything if, you know, it's only a certain amount of time.
And so I kept treading water, treading water. In June, my parents came over to visit. They live about 25 minutes away. We hadn't seen them. And this is my, my parents. We usually see them at least once a weekend. They love the kids. I mean, that's their joy. I couldn't risk it. You know? I'm like, no, you can't come in my house.
You can't come over. So in June three months into this nightmare, my parents came over for an outdoor visit on the deck. We sat. 10 feet apart cause of six is recommended. 10 is better and we're sitting on the deck. I was very uncomfortable, very uncomfortable. I didn't want to be there. I didn't want them to be there.
I was terrified of getting them sick. I was terrified they could get me sick. I mean, I was just so uncomfortable. My dad had to go to the bathroom. Absolutely not. You can come in my house. Are you out of your mind? That is a no-no. You can't use the bathroom and his face. I remember it. He was, he was like, are you serious?
And I'm like, dad, you can't come in my house. And they know how I am. They understood and left and I cried. And Jonathan and I had a talk and he said, you can't, you can't live like this because we don't know how long this is going to last. We can't, we can't, we have to find a balance between keeping the kids and us healthy and safe and living because we weren't living.
We were existing and he's right. And I acknowledged it. I acknowledged it. Who do you think I called?
Damaged Parents: [00:40:03] the child psychologist again.
Lisa Dimino White: [00:40:05] 20 years later, I'm going to Google her because why the heck not? She's still practicing. She's now in another state, not Virginia, but I, I sent her an email just completely random we're friends on Facebook. So she knows my name. She knows that I live out in Colorado and she's seen pictures. I said, Hey, I need help. I need help. She emailed me back. Absolutely. Let's set up an appointment. And so we've been, I've been getting therapy from her virtually on zoom for since June, once a week. And what she has been helping me with is that relationship I have with risk. I don't like risk. But also my inability and unwillingness to be uncomfortable.
If I was just me and it was just me that I was living with during this COVID time, I would literally lock myself in the house and just wait, wait it out. But I can't do that because I have the kids and I have Jonathan and Jonathan is a little more rational when it comes to his risk tolerance.
Whereas I'm like, so there's a 0.001% chance that we're going to get ill. If we do this, it's not worth it. And he's like, but it's 0.001%. And I see that as, yeah, you just prove my point. You're telling me there's a chance and that was the disconnect. And so I have had to, and continue to try to be. Mindful of my kids' mental health, because I did notice that before I decided I needed help.
I wasn't seeing David who's 12 starting to withdraw a little bit, not FaceTiming with his friends as much. And I cause he has a phone. So he knew that people were getting together. And so there's that aspect of it. And so I needed to find a way to. Meet his needs while also making sure we're safe and healthy
Damaged Parents: [00:42:00] And so what ended up being the, I don't think work around is the right word, but how did you end up working that out?
Lisa Dimino White: [00:42:07] So my doctor helped me identify, you know, okay. So let's talk about how can we structure life so that the kids' needs are met. And my feelings of safety are. Honored and respected as well. My problem was I saw it as very much all or nothing.
We're either safe or we're not. And so the realization that, okay, again, if it was just me fine, you can do that.
You shouldn't, but you can, but the fact is that's not going to work, so how can we give them what they need a little more and allow me to feel secure ish, but also acknowledging that I'm going to have to be okay with being uncomfortable.
That was the key. That was the key.
Damaged Parents: [00:42:51] so give us an example of something that you would do.
Lisa Dimino White: [00:42:55] So if David was, you know, his friends went out, if they went to ride bikes or to interact, play basketball with each other, even outside, I had a hard time saying yes to that. I had to, I had to realize, okay, let's come up with some parameters. You can do it. Wear a mask, wash your hands. As soon as you get home with soap and take a shower.
That was how I felt like I could, it's what I could live with.
Damaged Parents: [00:43:22] right. And he was, he was okay with that.
Lisa Dimino White: [00:43:24] yeah. Yeah. The poor kid just wanted it, you know, he's like, yes, please. Fine. So, but do I still get nervous when he goes out? Yeah. Do I still wish he didn't have to go out? Yeah, I do. I do, but I accept that feeling. I just have to be okay with being that uncomfortable.
Damaged Parents: [00:43:42] so you just have to kind of take a breath and focus on that. You're allowing maybe that David is what's more important to you is that you have a healthy child. Okay.
Lisa Dimino White: [00:43:54] a hundred percent, hundred percent. It's something that I have to be okay with because this is what he needs to be. Okay. Through this time.
Damaged Parents: [00:44:04] And it sounds like family, family is valuable to you and their happiness is valuable to you.
Lisa Dimino White: [00:44:10] Absolutely. But, so, so, so is there safety?
Damaged Parents: [00:44:13] Right, right. So it seems like to me, you had to decide what was more important and maybe it was the mental health versus the safety. Because when you look at the statistics it's 0.001.
So somehow you were able to reconcile that in, in your mind.
Lisa Dimino White: [00:44:32] And acknowledge, you know, look at, look, it's not an all or nothing. Look at the, look at the numbers, look at the data, understand that, again possible and probable are very different. But at the end of the day, my goal is to get my family and me through this horrible fear, terrifying time as mentally and as physically healthy as possible.
And after a few months, I realized that his need for that interaction was more important than I thought it was. I thought, Oh, we'll have fun. We'll play games. We'll as a family, make it through this together. He doesn't need that social component as much as I, he, as much as I think he does. Well, he does, like, it was, it became very clear in that third month that it is important.
And I need to find a way to let him have that without going hog-wild. I mean, he's not, I mean, there are people. In his circle who do more than what he's allowed to do. They have sleepovers. They go inside each other's homes. They go indoor places that I, I cannot wrap my head around and I cannot do it.
I just can't. And Jonathan supports me. He, he sees that I'm trying and. We both agree that that's okay that he not do that next level because we feel as a family, that this is the level of risk we're willing to do and willing to take. And he accepts that he accepts that he's been a real good sport about it.
I mean, is he disappointed? Of course, when his friends have a sleep over and he's not allowed to do that, but he also sees. How hard this is for me and the fact that I'm trying, and I am forcing myself out of my comfort zone for his happiness.
Damaged Parents: [00:46:14] so you guys really talk about this as a family, then what your struggle is like. And it sounds like because of that, the children. Have a better understanding of what you're going through. So you can also, and you have an understanding of where they're going through. Like you're all trying to understand and make a negotiate in a way that all of you can potentially have your needs met.
Maybe not perfectly, but as close as possible. That's I love that. I absolutely love that.
Lisa Dimino White: [00:46:48] It's hard because my instinct is a hundred percent safety at all times. That's what I want. And it's come with professional help. I'm able to see that while that is sure what you want, that isn't necessarily realistic in this situation. And by. Learning to be uncomfortable and being okay with that discomfort.
Not only is that helping me get through this time, but it's also helping me beyond just the COVID stuff. And I think it's a good tip for everyone out there because even your listeners who don't struggle with the same things that I struggle with, we all have struggles. We all have things that we want to change or that we want to improve, and that we try to keep ourselves from feeling.
And I really believe that. True joy and living life as best as we can really comes from that willingness to be uncomfortable. So if you want to make a change in your life, you want to, whether it's physical, you know, you want to get your, your fitness or your eating on track. Taking that step to say, I'm going to do this because I want to make this change.
That's uncomfortable, both the decision and doing it, you know, but it's going through that discomfort that ultimately gets us to the end result of being the person and living the life we know we want. So you know, that that's just a powerful reminder. I mean, anything worthwhile doing is uncomfortable.
It's so much easier to just stay in the status quo of what we know.
Damaged Parents: [00:48:17] isn't it though. So is because we know it right. , in anything, even people who are used, I think to abuse, probably they're used to that. They know it it's safe because they know what to expect. So changing out of that would probably be hard. I'm thinking similar to what you've been explaining. It's uncomfortable, it's different.
It's new. I'm thinking about how many different ways the tools you've talked about could be applied, but knowing that what would be the top three things that you want the listeners to walk away with? What are some tools that you would recommend to them to find that, or to learn how to be uncomfortable and be okay with it?
Lisa Dimino White: [00:48:58] One of the things that I love, the reminder is. Feelings are temporary bad feelings are temporary and good feelings are temporary. So bad feelings are temporary. That fear we're feeling that discomfort. It's not going to last forever, even though we feel like it is in the moment. It's not conversely good feelings don't last forever either.
So enjoy them, savor them, appreciate them. So that's an important one. You know, I think that remembering that everybody struggles. And you don't know it when COVID hit my friends, my colleagues, my acquaintances were shocked because they're like, Lisa, what's wrong. What's the matter. And I had to tell them because nobody knew about my struggles and my challenges.
Why would they, why would I tell them? I realized, you know, what? They don't know. And I would tell them. And I could see cause we were doing it virtually because I'm not about to get in-person with anybody. I could see their jaws just drop. Like I had no idea. And I'm like, well of course you don't. And it was a reminder to me that I was doing a disservice to the universe by not sharing my story.
These people thought I had everything together and that's why I seemed so perfect and polished. Heck no, we all have struggles and we can all be joyful despite them. That's the difference. And I've seen people and talk to people after learning that it gave them inspiration to say I've got struggles and challenges, but that's not going to keep me from being joyful and happy as well.
It's just a nice reminder that everybody has something. And the final thing I would remind your listeners is don't be afraid to acknowledge your awesomeness. You know, I feel like so often we're comparing ourselves to others and feeling inferior, whether it's something we can't do or something that we don't do well or something that doesn't come naturally to us, whatever it is about, you embrace what you can do well and feel good about the contributions you make to the world.
Because just because something. Comes easily to you doesn't mean that it comes easily to others. So to really embrace and acknowledge the gifts that you bring to those around you and to the universe in general.
Damaged Parents: [00:51:07] awesome. Those are awesome. I'm so glad I got to have you on the show today. Lisa
Lisa Dimino White: [00:51:11] I loved it. I had a great conversation. I really enjoyed it. And I hope that your listeners will, will take away just the reminder that don't, don't be so afraid of those uncomfortable feelings, because that's often where most of the growth in our lives happen.
Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Relatively Damaged by Damaged Parents. We've really enjoyed talking to Lisa about how she found a way to live in the COVID world. Even when it creates really difficult feelings inside of her. We especially liked when she explained how her family works together so that even though everyone doesn't get what they want, they all find ways to live joyfully together.
To unite with other damaged people, connect with us on. Instagram. We'll be here next week still relatively damaged see you then.
