Episode 17: Mom Abandoned Me
Terri M. Kozlowski
About: Terri M. Kozlowski is a proud Native American warrior: Athabascan; Tlinglet Tribe - Raven Clan. She journeyed through the pain of child sexual abuse and utter fear of life after her mother abandoned her (age 11) and her sister (age 10), on the streets of Albuquerque. She is rediscovering her true path in life, one of joy and love. She learned to transcend the fear that the egoic mind keeps bringing to the forefront of our lives. She is now on a mission to help others overcome their fear and limiting beliefs and become their authentic selves.
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Podcast transcript below:
Podcast
Damaged Parents: [00:00:00] Welcome to Relatively Damaged by Damaged Parents were destitute abandoned, abused people come to learn. Maybe just, maybe we're all a little bit damaged. Someone once told me it's safe to assume 50% of the people I meet are struggling and feel wounded in some way. I would venture to say it's closer to 100%.
Every one of us is either currently struggling or has struggled with something that made us feel less than like we aren't good enough. We aren't capable. We are relatively damaged. And that's what we're here to talk about.
In my ongoing investigation of the damage self, I want to better understand how others view their own challenges. Maybe it's not so much about the damage, maybe it's about our perception and how we deal with it. There is a deep commitment to becoming who we are meant to be. How do you do that? How do you find balance after a damaging experience? My hero is the damaged person. The one who faces seemingly insurmountable odds to come out on the other side whole.
Those who stare directly into the face of adversity with unyielding persistence to discover their purpose. These are the people who inspire me to be more fully me. Not in spite of my trials, but because of them. Let's hear from another hero. Today's topic includes sensitive material, which may not be appropriate for children. This podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended as advice. The opinions expressed here were strictly those of the person who gave them.
Today, we're going to talk with Terry Kozlowski. She has many roles in her life. Daughter, sister, mother, wife, grandmother, stepdaughter, stepsister, and more. We'll talk about how her and her sister were abandoned by their mother in Albuquerque, after abuse and neglect. To then spend a significant amount of her life finding hope and learning to surround herself with safe people.
Let's talk.
Well, Terry, welcome to relatively damaged. We're so glad to have you here today.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:02:12] Thank you very much, Angela. I'm glad to be here.
Damaged Parents: [00:02:14] Yeah. So you came on to talk about a childhood trauma. And one of the things you said before we, started the podcast is that you weren't just relatively damaged. You were significantly damaged. Tell us a little bit about that.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:02:31] Most childhood traumas. Are that are traumatic, actual traumatic events are something that we don't get over easily. And it's something that we carry with us because it ultimately, takes away part of our emphasis authenticity. So I was a childhood divorce. My parents were divorced when I was eight years old.
Unlike most divorces. My father got custody of my sister and I two young girls. He was the first man in the history of Maryland to win custody of little girls from their mother. This was in the early seventies. They went their separate ways and my mother ended up in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
At the age of 11. I went to visit my mother with my sister. My sister is 11 months younger to the day than I am. Okay. So we were more like twins. Then we were, older sister, younger sister, but. I had seen my mother once, between the time we left Maryland and the time we went to visit her in New Mexico.
And that was when she went from New York to New Mexico and was traveling through. So we get to New Mexico. My mother's an alcoholic. We knew she was an alcoholic. She was in AA supposedly, and that was why we were allowed to go on this trip. The first two weeks were fabulous. Some of the best memories I have of my mother occurred in those first two weeks, then she started drinking.
What we didn't realize was that she was also a drug addict now.
Damaged Parents: [00:03:59] Oh,
Terri Kozlowski: [00:03:59] she was drinking and using, and I ended up going back into my co-dependent behaviors. I was fixing drinks and passing out drinks. And when they passed out, cleaned up after them covered them up, when they were falling asleep or actually passing out.
Falling asleep was my term that I use. Mommy's sleeping, you know, not that mommy passed out. So there's codependent behaviors that kicked on. And for me, they kicked on prior to being eight years old.
Damaged Parents: [00:04:28] But did you, so did you know what that point that passing out was not sleeping and you just wanted to use that word because it made it okay?
Terri Kozlowski: [00:04:36] No, I just, I know I was protecting my mother. I couldn't wake my mother up. So obviously she was sleeping.
Damaged Parents: [00:04:41] Right.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:04:42] What
Damaged Parents: [00:04:43] it.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:04:43] What is, you know, six, seven, eight year old gonna think
Damaged Parents: [00:04:46] Right,
Terri Kozlowski: [00:04:46] can't wake mommy up?
Damaged Parents: [00:04:48] Well, and I wasn't sure if dad had said, Oh, that's, you know, mom's passed out and no nothing. So it was it not talked about before the divorce. Oh, okay.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:04:57] And even though I knew at a young age that her drinking from the special cabinet meant she was going to change her personality in some way. I didn't understand what that was. I knew when she drank from that cabinet, something that I didn't like happen either she fell asleep and didn't wake up or she got angry and beat us with a wooden spoon.
Those things that occur when you have an alcoholic in the family.
Damaged Parents: [00:05:24] so you didn't know what to expect and, and it. I mean, you knew what it was like without, when she didn't go to the special cabinet, but the special cabinet meant you don't know what's coming next.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:05:36] Correct. And on top of that, all she was a epileptic. So she was taking back in the seventies, phenobarbital, which mixed with alcohol is bad and she would go into grand mal seizures. And I was at the age of five learning how to take the handle of the wooden spoon and place it on her tongue. So she wouldn't swallow her tongue.
So at a very young age, I was mothering my mother.
Damaged Parents: [00:06:00] Yeah.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:06:01] So we get to New Mexico and that's not true. The trauma yet. We haven't gotten to the trauma. We get to New Mexico. She's drunk. She's passed out. She's. Partying with friends. So they're all passed out and I go to bed. My sister's already asleep and I believe they drugged her that night because she didn't wake up for three days.
I
Damaged Parents: [00:06:23] or your mom.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:06:24] my sister,
Damaged Parents: [00:06:25] Okay.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:06:25] my sister, my ten-year-old old sister. So I am, checking, leaning on her, watching her chest go up and down, making sure she's breathing, monitoring her, um, that I'm hearing her heartbeat and she sleeps for three
Damaged Parents: [00:06:38] were you terrified?
Terri Kozlowski: [00:06:39] I don't. I think I completely shut down my emotional aspect of things and it was working on, okay.
How do I get to the next day?
Damaged Parents: [00:06:50] yeah.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:06:51] she's asleep or what I think is asleep. And I wake up with a gag in my mouth, my feet tied, and my somebody's holding my hands down and it ends up that three Hispanic men raped me while my mother is standing in the room watching so she could have drugs.
Damaged Parents: [00:07:09] I just want to say right now, as, as I'm listening to this story, the feeling that I'm having is I want to vomit. And I couldn't imagine being there. So, uh, do you, did you have any feelings in that moment? Were you just terrified? Did you freeze? What, what happened?
Terri Kozlowski: [00:07:27] Well, number one, I didn't remember. My mother was standing in the room for four years.
Damaged Parents: [00:07:32] Oh my
Terri Kozlowski: [00:07:33] That's how traumatic it was that my 11 year old brain could not handle the knowledge that my mother was standing there watching this. So I didn't know that. Right. I didn't remember that until four years later. So in that moment, I remember thinking I didn't do anything wrong. I did everything I was supposed to do. I locked the bedroom door when I went in. Everybody was outside this. So I knew that somehow I was going to try to blame myself for this, but I knew in the moment, it wasn't my fault. I knew when it was all over and they left everybody left, there was nobody left in the apartment and my mother didn't come back.
And so she was missing for three days.
Damaged Parents: [00:08:18] So you're the only one there and your sister is sleeping and. And mom
Terri Kozlowski: [00:08:22] I'm the only one there
Damaged Parents: [00:08:24] she's gone.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:08:24] just me. So my mother's gone. My sister is sleeping when my sister she's very upset because my mom's not there. And yet at the same time, I'm trying to take care of her. On the fourth day, my mother returns and she comes home like she was working. We had this little routine where she gave me her paycheck and I would go to the grocery store and cash the paycheck, get a money order to pay the weekly rent.
She took the groceries, my sister and I went and paid the rent. When we got back to the apartment, my mother was standing out on the front stoop with our suitcases on the ground and told us it was time to go home. Went back into the apartment, uh, lock the door.
Damaged Parents: [00:09:03] you're 11. Your sister is 11 months behind you to the day. And I just can't imagine what that felt like to you. What, what were you thinking with the suitcases on the front porch and you and your sister standing there.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:09:17] Well, my sister immediately started crying and this is where the brain and the ego are amazing things. So the last thing my dad said to me, as we are getting ready to go visit, my mother is a, he loosened up my chin and looks me in the eyes is you take care of your baby sister now. There's all kinds of good things and bad things about that statement to somebody that is 11 to a 10 year old.
But for me in that moment, my ego kicked in and said, you must take care of your baby sister. And because of that, then I started down a completely different path than probably what I would have done had I been alone and I had not had that directive to take care of my sister. So. I started thinking, okay, I'm trying to calm my sister down.
I asked her, we need to color the place. We need to make a phone call. We need to call daddy to have us come home because daddy is in Pennsylvania. So I'm 3000 miles away from the nearest, real relative.
Damaged Parents: [00:10:15] Oh, wow. So were you also feeling very alone? First of all, you've got it. You've got to be adult and parent and you're alone in a strange town. Cause you've only been there for a couple of weeks. And on top of it, you've had this huge trauma happen. How did you even function? I don't even know if you could describe what
Terri Kozlowski: [00:10:35] I, I, I really think that what happened was my ego of mine took over and started saying, okay, let's logically find a place to call. , my sister did not want to go to the police. And when she said, well, I don't want to have the beliefs. It clicked in me that, of course I don't want my mother to get in trouble.
Damaged Parents: [00:10:53] well, yeah, it's mom.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:10:55] I, I go back into that protective mode. I, that co-dependence see, that comes up and to protect mom. So we get to, my mother's friend's house, which is a mile away. So an a 10 and 11 year old are walking down the streets of Albuquerque, New Mexico, carrying suitcases. And no it's a mile away.
Nobody says anything to us. We get to this apartment and I call my dad. I don't remember all of the conversation. I remember telling him we need to come home. We need to come home. Now you asked me if I was in a safe place. He asked about talking to my mother and I said, no, she's not available to talk to.
I don't think I said she kicked us out.
Damaged Parents: [00:11:33] right. So still protecting
Terri Kozlowski: [00:11:35] yes. I don't think that came out to later. So. He hangs up the phone with me, calls me back about an hour later telling me there's plane tickets. Can we spend the night somewhere, plane tickets aren't until 12 noon the next day. And this is like four or five o'clock in the afternoon.
The previous day I said, yes, we have a place. And he asked, can I, can we get to the airport? And I said, yes, I have a way for us to get to the airport. And this is where I think spirit really. If we look at our lives, we can see that spirit or God or the universe, whatever you want to call it, you can see interfering in your life in a way that if in the time you don't think it's important.
When we got to New Mexico, my mother's friend picked us up. He and her picked us up because my mother didn't have a car. So he had a car and he picked us up. He knew my mother and he, you know, we, he took us out to dinner with, we had a lovely time with him. His name was Alan and he handed me his business card as my mom and my sister are going into the apartment.
He hands me his business card and said, honey, if anything happened, you need anything at all. You call me. Alan is the one that took us to the airport,
Damaged Parents: [00:12:52] Wow, what a blessing
Terri Kozlowski: [00:12:53] never talked to him, except for that day, he picked us up. I called him. He said, absolutely, I'll be there. He came, he took us to the airport. I've never seen or heard from him again.
So he is somebody that spirit absolutely knew I would need. And I recognized it as, okay, this is something I should hold on to. And I kept that business card because normally why would an 11 year old keep a business card you don't?
Damaged Parents: [00:13:19] no.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:13:19] So I intuitively knew that I needed to have this information and I hit it away.
And at the right moment, I took it out and used it.
Damaged Parents: [00:13:27] So when you say hid it away, do you think you didn't even want your mom to know that you had it, that it was something sacred to you? Wow. I'm getting the chills because I think you're right. I think there are those moments in our life where. Things happen. And maybe in the moment we're not paying attention or recognizing that it is what it, because it just seems so, I don't know, like we just dismiss it, maybe. I don't know. Okay.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:13:56] Everybody that comes into your life, comes into your life for a reason, either to bless you or to help you learn something. And if you approach that every person that you come in contact with universe sent for a reason, whether I'm the person that's supposed to bless them, where they're supposed to bless me, or I'm supposed to teach them, or they're supposed to teach me, there's always going to be that exchange, especially when souls come together.
So yeah. On the airplane, we get off the airplane and I walk up to my dad and I tell my dad, I don't say hello. I don't hug him. I say, I need to go to therapy now again, I'm 11. I don't really think I knew what therapy was. I knew that. Several things. I knew this was bigger than me. I knew that in some way, going to be very impactful in my life.
And I didn't know how to deal with it. And it took me a year to tell my dad everything that happened. And then, so I was in therapy for five years. Keep in mind, this was in the early eighties therapy for sexual trauma. Really? Wasn't something that was handled very well. Most children weren't in therapy anyway, so there wasn't a whole lot of child psychology going on unless there was an actual systemic problem that was diagnosed early on.
But not traumatic type, I mean, an actual psychological break of some sort. So because of that, I don't know that the therapy was very beneficial for me, except as a way to vent about other daily occurrences. So I learned to talk about those things that may aggravate me, but not. Ever about the trauma. I did talk somewhat about the abandonment and ultimately that is my core trauma is abandonment.
The abandonment that my mother did, not only when we were little by passing out. And me having to take over. She left my dad. That's what caused the divorce. So again, she abandoned in us, the abandonment in New Mexico, and then ultimately in her death, she abandoned us again because she told when she was in the hospital, she told the administrator of the hospital.
She had no next kin, no family, no children. So again, she completely abandoned. And my
sister and I, in her final moments,
Damaged Parents: [00:16:18] Right. And I'm thinking when you said, when you were little, when she would drink and pass out, that's an abandonment. Then when I heard you say about Albuquerque when you were abandoned, but I think in Albuquerque, you were abandoned a couple of different times because of what happened in that room.
And I think that for, for me, just thinking about standing there and not doing anything might be worse than kicking me out.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:16:46] Yeah. Ultimately, one of the things that any trauma victim goes through is the why all the why questions and the why. If my mother and I ever had a conversation, an authentic conversation, there could never have been a why that I would have been satisfied with.
Damaged Parents: [00:17:05] Okay.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:17:06] Because as a mother, there's no way you put your child in that in harm's way.
There's no way that you stand and watch your child. Be desecrated. It's not something that, that a mother allows to occur. So no matter any. Sort of why that could come out of what cause she couldn't, it's just, you can't justify it in my mind. It can not be justified. in my book, I talk about the fact that I gave up asking why.
And if people really want to know if they really feel, they need to have a, why the, why was it? She was an alcoholic and a drug user. Yeah. She was addicted to a substance that altered her perception about everything because her perception, she had to stuff in some way, because she could never deal with the reality of what her life was.
So she chose as a way to deal with it, to bury it, to stop it, not to feel it and in doing so, put her children in harm's way.
Damaged Parents: [00:18:05] so, which is devastating. And how did you let go of the why? How did you personally, like, how did you come to, I need to let go of this.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:18:15] Well, I am. I'm a very optimistic person. And up until the day I found out she passed. I always believe that deep down we would reconcile in some way. I so much believes that, that she got invited and came to my first wedding. After my son was born, he was 18 months old. I took him out to see her because I knew I wanted her to be able to meet her grandson.
It was. The only time she ever met him and she was sober for about 16 hours before she started drinking. And then he and I left. So yeah, I was giving her opportunities. I was saying to her over the years, I'm giving you opportunities. If you're willing to stop the drinking, I'm willing to have you be a part of my life. She was never willing to give up the drinking. So finally, after she passed. I realized that I was still searching for the why part of the reconciliation to me was understanding the why and in it, and I was meditating one day and it occurred to me the why doesn't matter because she was an alcoholics.
She was a drug addict. She never was going, ever took responsibility for her life and her actions. And because she never did that, she could never even try to come up with Hawaii. Cause she never really could look into herself to determine, okay, what caused me to do this? Why did I make this choice?
And why was the drugs more important than my child? And every day we make choices every day we decide what next step we're going to take. And even not choosing is a choice, not doing anything. It's still a choice. If you have option one and option two, two, and you choose to do nothing, that's still a choice that you made.
So. Many people don't realize that there's a lot of power that we have in our choices. And that's one of the big things that occurred. after I got out of high school and I was in college, I had a college friend tell me that I liked being a victim, and I had to sit with that for a while. Cause at first I got very angry.
Who are you to tell me anything about my trauma, but something about it. Kind of resonated with me. Okay. What am I getting out of being a victim when you're a victim? What happened? One of the things that happens is that people leave you alone. People are gentle with you. People don't want to trigger you.
And so how people then dealt with me was very passive and very cautious and or they just left me alone. And I was okay with that. Yeah, when you suffer trauma and you don't know how to deal with it and trying to figure out all the why's why it happened to me. What could I have done differently? All of that, that you go through.
Part of that also is realizing that. Being left alone means you don't have to answer questions. You don't have to come up with lies to cover up stories. And, and all of that being left alone is a good thing. And then I realize it probably was, there was a better way to communicate to somebody.
That I wanted to be left alone. I could just say that instead of using all this victimology to keep people away. So the day I went from saying that I'm a victim of trauma to being a survivor of trauma, that major shift empowered me. To start making choices without blaming others. So up until that day, everything that happened in my life could be blamed on my mother.
Everything could be blamed on the abandonment. Everything could be blamed on the sexual abuse. Everything could be blamed on the codependency, all of the things in my life that I could make bad choices. I did not do well on a test because I was thinking about all this stuff with my mother. I could blame on all that, the moment I said, no, I'm a survivor.
I need to take responsibility for the choices that I made. If I didn't do well on a test that is on me, has nothing to do with my trauma.
Damaged Parents: [00:22:18] right.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:22:19] And that's empowering.
Damaged Parents: [00:22:21] It really is. It really is. And I want to round back real quick too. It sounds like you've come to accept. Well, maybe not. I'm not sure certain that's the right answer, but, or the right word. but the mom did the best that she could, and that wasn't always what you needed or most of the time, not anywhere near close to what you've needed.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:22:44] One of the things that you. All of us have to do. When we look at forgiving, others is really looking at two things. One forgiveness is for ourselves. It's not for the other person. Okay. So forgiveness is for ourselves, for us to let go of the attachment, the negative attachment that we have with that person.
But the other part of forgiveness is understanding that when they, when people know better, they do better. My mother absolutely was not the mother I truly needed to have, or that I truly desire to have in my life. She was absolutely not what Terry needed. Now she was then however, biologically my mother and she was the person that I had to deal with.
And I have had a lifetime to try to figure out the best way to deal with her some days I did well. So other days I didn't do well, but through all of it, being able to forgive meant that I had to understand that she had a traumatic life as well. And. When people hear her story, they can understand why she was as messed up as she was.
She was born eight miles inside the Arctic circle back in the forties, in a Native American tribe. That was sustenance living. She had no running water, no electricity at the age of 16, she was given up for adoption with her two younger sisters and literally put on an airplane, left the village. And didn't go back for 40 years, she gets adopted by a missionary family who had no children and they were abusive and they also ripped away her culture.
She wasn't allowed to be Native American, but she called moving into the white man's world, men that she had to dress like. A white girl. She had to talk, she couldn't use, they have their own language and she couldn't use the language. She had to speak English. So the first night they spent there, they had, we were playing with the light switch to turn the light on and off and watch the toilet water go down because they had never seen anything like that before she met.
By the time she married my dad, she was an alcoholic. Because when your identity is ripped away from you, how do you cope? Especially when you're in an environment, this would have been back in the late fifties and an environment where there is no mean people think that she's lucky she got adopted. She got taken away from that sustenance living and for her, that wasn't the way she saw it.
So that was the start of many things. She had been sexually assaulted and then she was raped when she was in New York. And so she had sexual trauma throughout her life. So there were lots of things that. She just never could deal with, but I really think for her, her core identity was ripped away, who she authentically was, what she was told was bad.
And when we are domesticated as children, we get relatively damaged. That's what causes our damage. So we are born to this world, knowing exactly who we are. We are strong, we are fearless and we are bold individuals. Moving towards living an authentic life.
Damaged Parents: [00:26:04] I'm I'm wondering my what's going through my mind is, I think maybe it's possible mom having those traumas and walking into that room triggered so much possibly for her.
And there may have just been no possible way for her to even stop it. And then I would, for me, I mean, I'm just putting myself, trying to put myself in her shoes. I know that's not possible, but if I had been traumatized like that and then saw someone I've loved regardless of my alcoholism or anything else being traumatized in the same way.
I don't think I'd be able to handle that. In fact, I'm not sure I would ever come back from it.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:26:44] and that may be it as well. You know, I have looked at that aspect of it is the fact that she, when she was sober, And she realized what happened is that why she ran away for three days or for four days? Yeah. Is that why she went away? Is that why she forced the abandonment forced us to go home because she couldn't deal with what she did,
Damaged Parents: [00:27:06] And wild possible. Doesn't change the fact that it's not helpful to you to, to know why. So you had to even let go of that wonder.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:27:16] Yeah.
Damaged Parents: [00:27:17] Wow. So I think that takes a lot of courage and strength because I think I'd want to keep investigating it.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:27:23] You can only investigate so much before you come to the realization that really, and truly to investigate the why of why, what somebody does. You can really, really never know. I can tell you why I did something, but ultimately you can't really know because you're not me. You don't have my experiences. You don't have my mindset, you don't have my fears.
And, and they go of voice that continually talks and screams at us that tells us what we're doing is wrong or bad, or, you know, we should be doing something else when we are struggling with trying to understand why people do what they do ultimately comes down to they, they did it. We can't change what they did and for us to live in the past and be fearful of the past means that we are in a constant state of depression
Damaged Parents: [00:28:11] Yeah.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:28:12] And I was tired of being depressed. I was tired of living in the past. When you live in the past, then you're, you've taken, you don't have a present in your future. Is non-existent because you're always stuck in the past. So for me to move forward, I had to start looking at different ways to, I basically went from being, looking back and being fearful of the past and depressed to looking to the future and being anxious about the future because ultimately my fear changed slightly.
It was still fear. It was still the core abandonment issue. But now looking at the future, everybody's going to leave me.
Damaged Parents: [00:28:49] Oh, yeah. So you had to shift because if you didn't, everyone would leave you because you were constantly in this learned helpless victim role
Terri Kozlowski: [00:29:00] Well, not only that, but I automatically assume things. So for example, you have a baby. My son is born. I'm holding him in my arms and I'm looking down at him and thinking, Oh my God, he's going to leave me. That is not, that is not something that most people think about. Most mothers think about when they're holding their newborn baby for the first time.
But that's how deep that abandonment issue was in me is that even something as natural as raising a child became about my abandonment issue. ?
Damaged Parents: [00:29:36] I think my question is where did you start feeling desperate or panicked as soon as you had the baby had your son or what? It just was this, at some point he was going to abandon me.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:29:49] literally I'm in the hospital holding him. And that, that thought comes into my head. Oh my God, he's going to leave me. And I don't think that. I dwelled on it in that moment. I mean, I realized what it was and part of the fear that I had, I think stemmed from the circumstances in which he was born. So do you remember the movie switched at birth?
I watched it two weeks before I delivered number one, number two, I had a very difficult delivery and, um, he was. Three weeks late. He was almost 10 months old. I was, I was 10 months pregnant when he was born. Um, they, so they had to induce labor. There was meconium in the water, so neonatal was there. So literally they threw them on my stomach.
I saw him and they took them away
Damaged Parents: [00:30:35] Oh, no.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:30:37] yeah. So whichever, so, you know, dad went with the baby and I'm it, it took almost four hours for me to deliver the placenta. So I had complications, there was all kinds of issues. So in those hours that I'm dealing with my issues and the baby's safe, I get the baby and I have that abandonment thought.
But the other thing is what all new expectant mothers do is they read Dr. Spock's book. And his book tells you how vital those first couple hours after being born is
Damaged Parents: [00:31:13] um, no. So you're feeling felt like a failure already.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:31:17] connecting with the baby and bonding with the baby. And I never felt that. So for me, the connection that I thought I was supposed to have with my child never occurred now.
My son is 29 years old. Now when he was 18 and getting ready to go off to college, we had a conversation and one of the things I asked him was, did you ever feel disconnected from me? And here's my opportunity to see, you know, where I was in all of this now that he actually is leaving and I want him to leave. So yeah, , he's getting ready to go. And he's, and he looked at me really strange and said, of course not mommy, if anything, you loved me too much. So he never felt what I was feeling. So for me, that whatever that disconnection feeling was, he never felt. And that to me was ultimately how I got over that abandonment issue that I had concerning him was that if he didn't feel that he, that there was anything lacking, then I did okay.
Damaged Parents: [00:32:24] Yeah. Yeah. So it sounds like you were in college, you realized your friend calls you out on being a victim. Then still when, when you get married, I'm not sure how many years later that is. You get married, you get pregnant, you have a baby. You're still worried about abandonment. I'm thinking there's a whole bunch of this journey of processing that happened from the time your friend called you out and the time you had your baby and then having your son triggered some of those emotions again.
What are we missing in that middle part?
Terri Kozlowski: [00:32:58] From the time that they're, there really isn't a lot in that middle part. Other than I literally went from depressive state to where I'm now taking anti-anxiety meds because I'm having panic attacks during college. I was only in college three years. I'm. I'm an overachiever. So I actually completed my degree in three years and at the end of the three years, I got married a year later. I had a baby, so I was 21 when my son was born.
Okay. So literally 10 years after I was traumatized, my son was born. And in that 10 years, you know, I, what I say is the first 10 years of my life, I was authentically me. And the next 10 years of my life, I was conforming.
I was domesticated and I was kind of forming to what others wanted me to be the peer pressure, what my parents wanted me to be, as far as despite the trauma they wanted to be to be okay. They wanted me to function that, you know, that all the things that parents want when there's something that they think is very disconcerning about their child, that they want their child to be.
Okay. So I went through. 10 years of that, then I spent 20 years of being not quite sure who I am
and when I hit 40 is when I realized I don't like who I am. I don't think I'm really who I'm supposed to be. And at the age of 40, I started exploring that the other big aspect of this is up until. I was about 28 years old.
I didn't feel safe. So from the time I was 11 until I was about 28, I did not feel safe.
Damaged Parents: [00:34:41] But you're married and you're, you're not feeling safe in that relationship.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:34:46] There's okay. So, um, Maslow's hierarchy of needs, talks about being able to, to live. So having food and shelter and clothing, and then the next level is safety.
I never felt safe. And what I mean by that is if there was a strange noise or I can be home and crowded people. And if I heard a strange noise, I'd have an angst and everything in me would start shaking.
And I was just always fearful, never felt safe. When I met my current husband. Couldn't figure out what it was was about six months when I realized, Oh my gosh, I'm not scared because I went so long, over 15 years where I didn't know what safe felt like
Damaged Parents: [00:35:31] Right.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:35:32] When I became safe. And I realized that in his presence, I was safe and ultimately. I ended up marrying him and because of me feeling safe, I can move on to the next level of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. And you can't do that. You can't get past. Any of the other stuff that comes up as you go through trauma, if you don't feel safe. And a lot of people get stuck in the not feeling safe. I know of another lady who was, sexually, she was raped in college and still to this day, doesn't feel safe and she she's stuck in this place and she's lived a very successful life then hasn't been married. Successful marriage has had a successful career, but still. She doesn't feel safe. And when you don't feel safe, you can't do the other things that Maslow's hierarchy needs talks about. So there is no self-actualization there's is no self-awareness when you don't feel safe.
So I'm 28 and I feel safe. And this is when I really start to uncover certain things about myself that. are not quite right.
So what I call the thorny blanket when we are traumatized, we put, we wrap ourselves in a little cocoon in our blanket and the blanket is painful. There are thorns in the blanket that have pierced our skin.
And these are the self-defense mechanisms that we don't really realize we put into effect that our ego puts into effect for us, especially if it's childhood trauma. I didn't know what a self-defense mechanism was. I mean, what is that? What 11 year old doesn't know that, but those things that the ego uses to keep us safe so that when you start healing, other things occur.
So I started thinking maybe I needed to take off the thorny blanket and as I took it off, A couple of things happened. I started oozing in some areas, I started scabbing in some areas and guess what? Healing hurts.
Damaged Parents: [00:37:33] Yeah. So explain what that oozing and scabbing was for you. What were you noticing in your life?
Terri Kozlowski: [00:37:39] What I realized was there were certain things that I was a control freak when you are completely out of control, and then you have to take control of a traumatizing situation giving up that control means that there's going to be chaos. So I'm a natural control freak. And for lots of people that can be problematic, but in some areas, it comes off as being a great organizer.
I can organize people and things and put in systems and where everything works smoothly, but it's because I'm a control freak because I want to be ultimately in control of all the pieces. And so giving up that control, it's very hard and being in control all the time, it's very tiring. There is no self care.
There is no taking, you know, I literally my appendix ruptured and forced me into bed with peritonitis for eight weeks to get me to rest
Damaged Parents: [00:38:37] Wow.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:38:38] Because your body will take on the different aspects of the trauma for you, and it will come through your body. Your bodies is part of your soul. So essence that it uses to help us heal and trigger things so that we pay attention to ultimately what our soul is saying.
So th that was one of the things that was using. I tend to what my husband labeled the hammer of truth. I wheeled the hammer on truth. Basically what that meant was if you asked me a question, Instead of pausing and providing you an answer in a way that is best suited for you to hear. I would just clobber you over the head with a very blunt statement.
Was it the truth? Yes. Could I have said it in a way that you would have been more receptive to it? Absolutely. So learning tact, I didn't have any tact. I said it like it was, and I still do that, but now I pause a moment and make sure that whatever words come out are compassionate for the person to hear versus me.
Just clobbering them with over the head.
Damaged Parents: [00:39:48] And it sounds like that's still took you a little bit of time to work on, and I'm wondering it probably I'm just taking a Gander here, but I'm thinking it might show up every once in a while. Still where you say something and then all of a sudden you're like, oops, I wasn't thinking about how I was going to say that this time.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:40:06] It's interesting. Again, the universe moves, moves in mysterious ways. So I was heavily involved in a church, from the time. My son was about two until my son was six and then we moved and actually I take that back. I was involved in church since, high school. And then got taken out of it when my son was six and into a non, I mean, nothing at all church related.
So. When that occurred. I started exploring other aspects of spirituality versus religion, because I still knew that there was a God. I still knew that spirit was there and I still felt all that, but I did not have a structure anymore. So I started looking at , other things. The other thing that happened though, was I ended up getting involved in Cub Scouts.
And in doing that, I volunteered. And, I could say I'm a professional volunteer cause I did it there. I did it later on in life. but for me, part of that was being able to work with other personalities, work with other people, learning tactfulness. And that's how the universe got me to start seeing people and the good despite the bad, I'm very good at being able to meet new people and determine, Oh, they'd be really good at this. They'd be really good at that. And if I am in an organization, I meet them. I can bring them into those areas that they're going to thrive in versus putting them in areas that they're not going to do so well.
So I I'm able to see that opportunity. And again, when you're tactful with people, You get a lot more than you do when you call them over the head. So the, sledgehammer of truth is not necessarily something that is problematic anymore. Me, however, pausing and. Making sure that what I'm saying is, is compassionate still has to occur.
I still have to take it back. Cause there are lots of times I just want to override what people are saying, and that is my ego versus my heart.
Damaged Parents: [00:42:15] right. Wow. So.
so you, what you, your son was six. You left the church, you re married it when your son was seven I'm thinking say, okay, so when he was six, but when he was seven, you started feeling safe. So how did you know you were safe? How did you, what did you feel? Was it that maybe your husband had the integrity to say what he meant and do what he says?
Could you pinpoint what that was or did you just know why I feel safe enough to, to open up and figure out what's going on?
Terri Kozlowski: [00:42:54] It's a two-fold process. Number one, my husband listens. And that is not a quality that a lot of men really, truly have he listens. And then he will comment, which meant he truly did actually hear what I said, because I had been, I can talk a lot and yet people don't actually hear that's part of societies one of the biggest problems that has is that you hear all this jibber-jabber, but nobody's actually listening to what people are saying because every, any anger that comes out, people get defensive, but that anger underlying anger is pain. And you have to listen to the person to get and with compassion, to get to the place where you can understand their pain.
And once you understand their pain, then their anger is justifiable for them. And then you need to be compassionate and work through that. So for me, he listened, but more importantly, he actually seemed to understand. Where I was coming from and that my trauma, even though I said I was a survivor, because at that point I was that he understood that it still affected me in some ways that I didn't quite realize yet.
Damaged Parents: [00:44:05] Mm. So you, but that safe enough. And him knowing that, I mean, gosh, this guy sounds amazing. Where'd you find him? No, but the, the fact that he could hear you understand you, and it sounds like on some sense, know that you still had processing to do and be okay with that in that you had freedom. Is what I think is what you're telling me.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:44:34] Right, because for me, part of the other thing is the safety I felt was I was not, there was not this. Consistent angst in me that I was defensive. So when your hackles go up, my hackles were always up, so my hackles are up for almost 15 years. So when all of a sudden my hackles weren't up, like, what is this?
Damaged Parents: [00:44:56] Hmm. But did it feel weird
Terri Kozlowski: [00:44:58] Yeah, it felt weird because I was so used to. Always being terrified and always being fearful that night, not being that way felt weird. So that was really, I realized, okay, there's something about him that my soul is calming. My ego is calming down. My ego knows I'm in a safe place and that's pretty amazing because your ego is always on the defensive.
Damaged Parents: [00:45:25] Yeah. So your soul is knowing this and at the same time, did it just feel weird? And how did you get over that weird, I mean, that uncomfortable, weird
Terri Kozlowski: [00:45:37] Because when, when I wasn't in his presence and the fear came back, I didn't like it.
Damaged Parents: [00:45:42] Um,
Terri Kozlowski: [00:45:43] So the juxtaposition between being afraid and not being afraid. And when you actually can tell and feel that difference, why would anybody want to be afraid?
don't, I don't read horror. I don't watch horror because horror life is horrible enough.
I don't want to spend my free time. With, with those imageries. And I have lived a really horrific life at that, from that point. So not wanting to be fearful and wanting to feel like, Oh my goodness, I can just relax. I don't have to be all ready to pounce or attack or whatever, defend myself. I can just be.
And when you feel safe and you can just be, is when you find out and I'm really screwed up.
Damaged Parents: [00:46:29] It's just like this. I opened not even eye opening, but sole opening rate Oh, I've got some stuff I've got to deal with now. Instead of the blanket being thorny, it's warm and cozy because you're, as you shed the thorns or pull each little thorn off, if you will, or maybe you just change blankets. I don't know.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:46:51] Well, let me put it this way. The metaphor I use is part of the thorny blanket is because pain of healing is still paying. Okay. When somebody has a cut, you know, that you have to treat the cut and it scabs and all this stuff, and there's some pain there's tingling involved. There's feelings involved in that.
And new feelings, new pain is uncomfortable. We don't know what it is. So a lot of people put the thorny blanket back on. So I was doing that. I was taking it off and then I was putting it back on. I was taking it off when I was putting it back on. And then it got to the place where the thorny blink was just too dang heavy.
I, it was wearing me down. I was feeling lethargic about life and I decided I'd just need to rip it off like a band-aid
Damaged Parents: [00:47:37] Oh, ouch. So what'd you do, how did you do that?
Terri Kozlowski: [00:47:41] well, I decided to do was, you know, I took it off and that point in time, I was very established in. Specific area with my husband and my son and a community of people, in the scouting realm.
And it, I got very comfortable enough that I was okay. Exposing myself. And that's what real growth comes down to is being able to say, you know, what, if they don't like me, it's okay. If they don't like the fact that I have this gigantic scar, they're going to go away. I'm going to go expose my gigantic scar because it is, it is very much a part of me and it was surprising.
I did not lose many people at that point in my life. They all stuck around, Which was important to me because I, you know, all my abandonment issues that are going on them sticking around was, reinforcement that me being authentically me was a good, thanks.
Damaged Parents: [00:48:41] and I think you, without realizing it, surrounded yourself with safe people, you somewhere along the way, I think you learned. What, and maybe it was with your husband and, having your son, I don't know, but somewhere along the way something happened and you've learned what safe meant. so when you get to the, to this point in time where you're ready to rip off the blanket, you are, you're validated because the previous choices that, that you made and what creator God, whomever you believe in.
Put in your, in your life, what an amazing story. So what are three things, if you could, that you could tell any of our listeners who may experience something similar or may not experience something similar to you, but three tools, three things that you want them to know so that they can still have hope.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:49:39] Number one, you are powerful and you're powerful because you can make a choice. There's a choice that we all make every day, whether or not we get out of bed, whether or not that we put a smile on our face, whether or not we're thankful for the fact that we have a cup of coffee every day, we have a choice and we can choose to be happy or choose to be miserable.
Why does anybody choose to be miserable when they can choose to be happy? And happiness is something that comes from within joy is a spiritual quality from our soul. It rises out of us. So that is something same with peace. It's spiritual quality in our soul that rises out of us. So we can have peace every day.
We can have joy every day, but it comes from inside of us. So we're very powerful creatures. With our ability to choose. Second thing I was say is learn to reframe your stories. What I mean by that is my story of trauma is very dramatic, very harmful, very sad, very painful, but my story of survivorship is hopeful and inspiring and helps other people.
And by reframing how we tell our stories, reframing our self-talk. Is very vital and being able to switch our mindsets from being in pain and being in fear to responding from a place of love. And the third thing would be to choose to respond from a place of love and all situations that you encounter.
And the reason that's so important is if you come into a room with people that are arguing. And you go in to that negative energy and you also say, okay, I'm going to make this negative energy increase. And none of us think that, but if we go in with a bad attitude or we go in that, we're going to fight for whatever it is that we believe in that negative energy.
That's a negative energy instead of going in and saying, you know what, let me understand why they're so upset. The moment we ask, why do you feel that way? It changes the energy in the room. It changes how we're interacting with that person because we're showing them love and respect. And the one thing we all want more than anything else is to be heard.
And if we hear somebody with authentic ears, Then we are validating them as an individual. We're not agreeing with them. And that's what people think happens is that when we hear something that we're agreeing with it, no you're hearing and validating the person and their feelings, whether you agree with them or not, doesn't matter.
But that validation is now brought you both to the same table. Where you can share authentically with one another. And from that place of love, everything can be solved.
Damaged Parents: [00:52:28] I think I really love, love that. And I think it's hearing them for where they're at for me is, and, and being okay with that. Um,
just being okay with where they're at. And like you said, their emotions are their emotions. just because I disagree with their conclusion as to how to solve the problem doesn't mean that I have to make them sick, bad and wrong They themselves get to have that feeling and I get to have mine.
And as soon as maybe we realize we're a team, it's us against the problem, not us against each other, then we can start solving the problem.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:53:14] That's it.
Damaged Parents: [00:53:14] I am so lucky that I got to hear your story today and I am so grateful to have had you on, I just. I can't believe what you do. You have a, a story of hope, and it's not hoping little letters.
It's great. Big letters.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:53:32] It's just transcending the story, which is where, why my book is titled Raven transcending. If your Raven is the, my clan, my native American tribe is Athabaskan, tangle it, Raven clan. And so it's, uh, and not only is it symbolic for me personally, but the Raven is the bringer of light to the Athabaskan Indians.
The Raven is the bird that Noah used to release. First and the Raven doesn't come back, but because the Raven is so resourceful, the Raven is used in the old Testament as a symbolism of abundance. It's used in Greek and North mythology as the pur, as the bridge between spirit, realm, and earth. So there's lots of things about the Raven symbolism that I identified with.
And, that is where the Raven comes from. And the title of the book
Damaged Parents: [00:54:26] Well, I absolutely love it. I can tell you chose that name with care.
I did, the title of the book actually came to me before I started writing. I ended up with the title, I, and I ended up writing a poem. And the poem is broken up into the six stanzas, which are the six chapters of the book and then the book flowed from there.
would, would you like to read the poem on air for the audience you can say no, it's okay.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:54:52] No, no, no. I have no issue. I just need to pull it up.
Damaged Parents: [00:54:55] I happen to love poetry.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:54:57] Okay. So I'm going to put it in a place where I can read it and kind of look at the camera. It's called rebirth of the Raven Raven, the bringer of light intelligent wise, persuasive, calm, knowing its purpose. Confident and ready, Raven betrayed and abandoned, overwhelmed take on responsibility of others.
Raven lost and full of fear protection removed, feeling alone in the darkness. Raven covered by a thorny blanket. Nose removal will cause pain. The pain from healing wounds help is needed, but fearful following her heart and not her intellect. Raven quiets the voice of the ego to listen to the spirit she has forgotten, calm, peaceful, whole creative light has returned grandmother moon at the start of the day, smiling down upon the earth to help rave and remember that all as well.
That it will be a great day if she is aware of the miracles that are always present.
Damaged Parents: [00:56:02] fantastic. Thank you so much, Terri, for being here today, we are so lucky to hear your story.
Terri Kozlowski: [00:56:08] Thank you very much for having me, Angela. I enjoyed our time.
Damaged Parents: [00:56:11] Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Relatively Damaged by Damaged Parents. We've really enjoyed talking to Terri about how she overcame the fear and limiting beliefs caused by the childhood trauma she suffered. We especially liked when she taught us the meaning behind the title to her book Raven Transcending Fear.
To connect with other damaged people, connect with us on. TikTok, look for damaged parents. We'll be here next week. Still relatively damaged. See you then.
