Episode 16: 5 Chucky Dolls Tried to Escape My Abdomen (that's what it felt like)
Jacqueline Elizabeth
Bio: Today we talk with Jacqueline Elizabeth who had a lot of struggles so far, and yet the biggest struggle was the time she battled depression and suicidal thoughts. She had been living with undiagnosed endometriosis for about 4 years at that point, living in chronic daily pain. Two really big lessons were going on and only one of them she realized at the time, the other she recognized later on. 1. Learning that no one can be a better advocate for me than me. 2. Learning how to navigate my emotions. Oddly enough #1 was the one that she recognized right away. Her failed suicide attempt was the fire within her that made me stand up for herself and seek a second opinion for her chronic pain. #2 She knew was a big reason why she was in the dark hole she was in, but didn't learn to navigate them until much later in life.
Find Jacqueline here:
IG: xo_jacqueline_elizabeth_xo | holistic_academics
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/jacqueline-elizabeth
Website: www.holisticacademics.com
Podcast transcript below:
Damaged Parents: [00:00:00] Welcome to the relatively damaged podcast by damaged parents were devastated, crumbled aching people come to learn. Maybe just, maybe we're all a little bit damaged. Someone once told me it's safe to assume. 50% of the people I meet are struggling and feel wounded in some way. I would venture to say it's closer to 100%.
Every one of us is either currently struggling or has struggled with something that made us feel less than like we aren't good enough. We aren't capable. We are relatively damaged. And that's what we're here to talk about in my ongoing investigation of the damage self. I want to better understand how others view their own challenges.
Maybe it's not so much about the damage. Maybe it's about our perception and how we deal with it. There is a deep commitment to becoming who we are meant to be. How do you do that? How do you find balance after a damaging experience? My hero is the damaged person. The one who faces seemingly insurmountable odds to come out on the other side hole.
Those who stare directly into the face of adversity with unyielding persistence to discover their purpose. These are the people who inspire me to be more fully me, not in spite of my trials, but because of them. Let's hear from another hero. Today's topic includes sensitive material, which may not be appropriate for children. This podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended as advice. The opinions expressed here are strictly those of the person who gave them.
Today, we're going to talk with Jacqueline Elizabeth. She has many roles in her life. Sister, kitty mom, auntie daughter advocate, and more. We'll talk about how sometimes when you're using the same word as other people, the definitions still might be different. Let's talk.
Welcome Jacqueline to Relatively Damaged. We're so glad you're here today.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:02:05] Hi, thank so much for having me. I'm so excited to be part of this.
Damaged Parents: [00:02:09] of course. Yeah, this is, um, this has been a fantastic journey for me and I can't wait to hear your story of struggle.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:02:17] Yeah. So like we were saying just before we started recording, I, Sort of applied to, be a part of this podcast because of a certain struggle. That's been part of my life for a very long time. I actually struggle with endometriosis and it's been about 20 year journey, thankfully, uh, 11 years of which has been pain-free.
And so really working through that journey has been probably the biggest struggle in my life , and. The best part. I think that came out of that was really looking back on how I ended up in probably the darkest part of that journey and figuring out a, how I got there and how that helped me into getting through that, getting to the other side of that struggle.
So I, there were two things the first was really learning how to regulate my emotions and. When I was going through that journey in the very beginning, I didn't know how to do that. I didn't know how to process my emotions. I didn't know how to, differentiate between really what I was experiencing and whether that was my own or whether that was something that was.
Going on in the world, around me, that I was feeling and internalizing. And that really brought me into a deep, deep depression and even suicide attempts. And that was probably my darkest day and surviving that. And that was all due to chronic pain and depression and untreated and undiagnosed endometriosis.
So that was probably four years into my journey, of everyday chronic pain and not being able to function as a normal human being. And that moment when I woke up and I was alive and I was looking around, I realized that I. Needed to be the one to advocate for myself that I wasn't informing people enough because nobody knew my parents didn't even know about this deep dark hole that I was in until way later, when we were casually talking about it.
And they were like, what are you talking about? I didn't do enough to inform the people around me, what I was going through. They knew I was sick. They knew I was going through something. They knew I was struggling, but they didn't know the depths. Of what was going on and that had a lot to do with my emotions and not knowing how to process them.
You know, I'm from new England typically we don't talk about things. Either inside the family or outside of the family, you know, there, there are certain topics that we don't talk about and that's not on purpose per se. It's just how my parents were brought up, how their parents were brought up. And that was instrumental in me being able to pick myself up by the bootstraps as my grandmother would say and start fighting for what I really wanted.
Like stop wallowing, stop going in this circle or cycle of, hope, defeat, depression, hope, defeat, depression, just stand up and ask for what you want. So I was like, I want a second opinion. I'm in a second opinion. This is not working for me. This has been four or five years and we're not getting anywhere I'm not any better.
So that brought me to the person that it was still a second failure. The second opinion was, was worse, and ended up in a botched surgery. But then I knew that I had the power within me. To ask an advocate for what I wanted, because I asked an advocated for that second opinion, I asked an advocated for my third opinion and I didn't give up.
I didn't let anyone else dictate that route. And I got to that person who is still my surgeon today. So he was the one who diagnosed me. It took us six and a half or seven years to get to him. And. He's still with me today on this journey. Now I have had 11 years of being pain-free and so that's the biggest struggle I would say.
And the thing that really was the underlying theme was learning how to process. My emotions and impact in an empowering way, as opposed to letting them overtake me. And that goes, that goes hand in hand with pain, like allowing pain to come over and control my life, which it did for so long. And knowing that I had the power within me to change that narrative, to change the narrative of advocating for myself, as opposed to waiting for somebody to come rescue me, changing the narrative of.
The pain is here to control me, or this is happening to me as opposed to what can I learn about myself in that situation? Getting curious about the pain, getting curious about where it's coming from, getting curious about what it does to me when I let it, and that curiosity, switching that narrative.
Really was what got me to ask for that second opinion and ask for that third opinion, because I was able to do the research. I mean, this is 20 years ago, so we didn't really have the internet though, same way we do now. But I went to the law, I took my library card. I went to the library, went to the computer, and getting to that place of curiosity and really seeing how far that would get me.
I didn't know that it would get me anywhere, but it was something different than what I was experiencing for those seven, eight years prior. And I knew I needed something different because I wasn't going to make it if I didn't do something different.
Damaged Parents: [00:07:39] Right. So let's talk about, I want to backtrack real quick to endometriosis. Can you explain for the listeners that don't know what that is? Can you explain it real quick?
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:07:51] Yeah. So endometriosis is. Depends who you talk to. It will either be, um, a condition, a disease. I personally define it as a disease. it is where tissue that is similar to the lining of the uterus is found in the body
Damaged Parents: [00:08:10] anywhere in the body or just in the
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:08:12] anywhere in the body. So it's also a non-discriminatory disease. So this is not a disease that is limited to just the female population.
Although research does show that one in 10 women are affected. So I know women who have thoracic endometriosis, so they have, endometriosis in their lungs and their, by their heart, in their throat and their brain, , in their legs. Been able to speak with some men who have had endometriosis diagnosed as well.
So it's a lot different than what I was told initially that it was, I was originally told it's the lining of your uterus and it, you know, back flowed through menstruation up through your fallopian tubes and then out into the cavity of your body. And there's been science over the many years to disprove that theory.
But it's still one of the biggest things that's told to people and by doctors who are trying to help, like the science is just not something that we're researching actively. And so it makes sense that theories that are 20 years or 30 years old are still being followed through because nobody's doing the new research.
Damaged Parents: [00:09:21] so basically when somebody learns something, I think what I hear you saying is the doctors they learn, they go to school, then, then it's almost like they think they're done. So they're not going back to look at what the new research is. Maybe. Is that more of what you're saying? Or, or are you thinking like that they're not even teaching the new research or maybe I'm totally wrong and it's something else.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:09:40] I think you're right in both senses. So there's actually that I have found worldwide. There is no medical, requirement in med school, in any country that I have. That actually teaches on endometriosis. There's no requirement for gynecologists, OB GYN to understand, or, get taught on specifically this disease.
Damaged Parents: [00:10:05] So I would think there are so many different diseases out there that to teach a doctor, every single disease they'd been, we'd never, they'd never, ever, ever get out of school. Yeah.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:10:15] that is true. And I, I would say this comes from like a place of love and grace, and I think this is something that the endometriosis specialists who are in this community preach about all the time, right? Like everybody's doing the best that they can with the information that they're given
Damaged Parents: [00:10:33] Yeah.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:10:34] in this particular field.
The patients often have more knowledge than anyone they're being treated by. And so advocating for yourself, learning how to advocate for yourself is absolutely critical. If you have, or suspect that you have endometriosis.
Damaged Parents: [00:10:54] okay. So, cause I know that that is part of your journey advocating, and I want to dig into that, but I want to do it in, I kind of want to go back to. You're young, you've got this pain. I think you were saying 16, you're starting to have problems or you had problems shortly before that you're 12. Okay.
So at 12 you're starting to have problems. What did that feel like? What were the physical, what were the physical things you notice as far as endometriosis and then secondly, What was going on emotionally. And what was it like to deal with that?
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:11:30] So physically, I mean, I, my first menstruation was nothing like my mom had experienced. So I was, I don't know, either at the end of the school day or like heading into like an after-school program. And so I didn't know really what was going on, but heavy, heavy bleeding to the point where I had to wrap my jacket around my torso and then my brother's jacket around my torso.
And. It was kind of like, okay, like you've now become a woman. Let's go to the grocery store and get some pads and whatever. And I was just told that this is how your period is so cramping. Like when I ask someone who doesn't have a interest, what does a cramp feel like to you on a normal like, period?
Damaged Parents: [00:12:21] Oh, yeah, because it would be a little bit for me recognizing that there's a difference. It's just a little bit of tightening. That's it for me.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:12:31] So that's what my mom thought I was experiencing.
Damaged Parents: [00:12:34] Oh, cause you're saying you have cramps.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:12:37] Yes, my experience physically the best way. I have been able to describe it for people to really grasp what it was like. Is like, there are, there's a hoard of Chucky dolls armed with knives inside my abdomen. And there is a competition to see who can get out first. what my
Damaged Parents: [00:12:57] And you thought this was normal. So you thought mom experienced the same thing because you guys didn't talk about specifically, what cramp meant? Isn't that interesting?
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:13:07] No one had ever asked me, what does that feel like? So when my school nurse was like, what are you feeling? I'm like, well, I am having these pains. Oh, so you have cramps? Yeah. Sure. Okay. Cramps. And they'd be like, here's an Advil. Like you can lay down for 15 minutes, then go back to class and I'm like, I can't even. Imagine the amount of strength I'm going to need to move my body an inch to lay down, let alone, move my body up out of this chair and go back to class. When I would be in a flare up, I would literally fall off of my bed, roll myself off of my bed, onto the floor and crawl from my bedroom to the bathroom.
That would be the amount of pain that I would be in. And so physically that's, I mean, the Chuckie doll thing is pretty vivid.
Damaged Parents: [00:13:59] thank goodness you saw the movie and you can describe it that way. And I know what the movie, I know what that means too, right?
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:14:05] Yes. I probably should not have seen it at the age that I didn't see it, but I, yes, as soon as I saw that movie, that was like the best or like Edward Scissorhands too. That would also, you know, like. There's no bunch of Edwards is your hands in there trying to get up. And it's very interesting because no doctor pediatrician, OB GYN specialist, no one had ever asked me that question.
I was the one who started pushing back and saying, when you say cramp, what do you mean?
Damaged Parents: [00:14:36] at 12, you're starting to push back.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:14:38] I would say it took me until I was 14. Because I trusted my pediatrician and she was like, ah, this is normal to have pain. It's normal to have crampy start will to have bleeding. Yeah. This is a little bit more than I would expect to see, but you know, it's fine. Um, emotionally it felt like in the very beginning it felt like, are you sure. Like I knew that I started questioning myself at that age because I was like, I don't see other moms or even my own mom, like doubling over in pain with this. So is, am I, am I really experiencing this? And then when I got to 14 and I was still getting the pushback and I, and then 16 now I've been in it for years.
And the specialist that I was seeing. Was consistently telling me it was in my head that I could not have this experience. I could not be experiencing the pain that I was describing. So then I started to get paranoid
and that's very typical within our community.
Damaged Parents: [00:15:42] yeah, no. So real quick to, to round back to your 12, 14, what are the emotions behind not feeling understood?
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:15:50] A lot of distrust to my adult community distrust with myself too, like, anger, a lot of anger, a lot of, lot of anger. I would go through these pendulum swings of emotions, to either a good day would be. Really really good because you know, you're cherishing those moments or those small periods of time in which you're not in agonizing pain to other despair and hatred and anger at everything.
And a lot of that had to do with the hormones that I was taking for the birth, because I was put on birth control at 12
Damaged Parents: [00:16:27] Oh, okay.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:16:28] help. So now it's been, you know, Four or five, six years of birth control. That's almost continuous at that point. I think we had been doing continuous birth control by then. So part of that was the hormone fluctuation.
And part of that was not understanding the emotions that were coming up and not knowing how to talk to someone about them. Like, I didn't know how to say. I think you're wrong. Really? I didn't know how to say I'm angry that this isn't working. I'm frustrated I'm sad. I mean, you are also told then if you do have endometriosis, your best bet is to get pregnant, to have a hysterectomy or stay on birth control for the rest of your life. And I was 15 when they told me that and they were like, Oh, you're in a relationship. You should have a baby.
Damaged Parents: [00:17:18] What went through your head?
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:17:20] I was like, I don't know that I want kids like ever, and now you're telling me that my only chances right now with my 15 year old boyfriend, like, I don't know about that. Like that was an emotional roller coaster because I chose not to.
And they were like, all right, so menopause or like hysterectomy, like, what do you want to do? I was like, neither, like, I don't want this.
Damaged Parents: [00:17:44] what do you mean menopause though? They could put you into menopause.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:17:48] Yes. So chemically induced menopause, and that's still done. And funnily enough, this, this all goes back to partly, misinformation about endometriosis. So the idea is having a baby will stop your periods for nine months. The theory there being. The endometriosis is the tissue of the lining of the uterus.
And therefore, if you're not having a period, then it's not going to. Yeah, that is not always the case. There has, it's probably about 50, 50 from what I've seen, from women finding relief in that process, but many of them end up having worse symptoms after they give birth. And then add on the infertility issues that come with getting pregnant when you have endometriosis is just incredibly high.
The theory with menopause, same kind of thing, right? Like we're chemically inducing, menopause in your body to shut off the estrogen. And so endometriosis, , likes estrogen. It feeds off of estrogen. So if we shut off the estrogen, then maybe it won't grow or maybe it won't be active,
Damaged Parents: [00:18:47] right.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:18:48] not the case.
Endometriosis creates its own estrogen. It doesn't need the estrogen and it's in the body. Yes. That may exacerbate things, but really the pain that we feel from endometriosis isn't necessarily the lesions or the existence itself. It's the inflammation that the body causes trying to attack it. And so trying to attack it creates that chronic inflammation, chronic inflammation then snowballs into a whole bunch of other things, which 90% of our symptoms ends up being as a result of that chronic inflammation, not necessarily the endometriosis itself, however
Damaged Parents: [00:19:26] so does the inflammation go through the rest of your body then? Even though you've got, so you've got this swelling in the lining of the uterus for, for women. cause you said earlier it goes through more parts of the body than that. And. And so then it causes the inflammation there. And then from there it triggers maybe systemic inflammation throughout the body.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:19:49] Yeah. So it depends where your endometriosis is found, but usually that central site is like the home base for that inflammation. So your body will attack it. Like it's an invader. So say, Ooh, that tissue doesn't look like it's supposed to be there. Let's go after it with antibodies and try and clean it up.
Damaged Parents: [00:20:08] so you you've got this endometrium, so then it could end up the pain could be anywhere in your body. So for you, did it stay in your belly if you will, or did it go other places
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:20:20] It was fairly localized for me. My left ovary was always the worst, like that area and the bowels. The bowels and the ovaries were certainly the worst. And that was where they found the most endometriosis tissue. The thing with the inflammation, it does cause that kind of systemic inflammation, depending upon how large that area covers.
But the other thing is, is that the endometriosis tissue boroughs. So it creates this like attachment to a nearby tissue and then it borrows underneath it. And so it can destroy organs. So I know I've known women who have lost big parts of their bowel and have to wear costumey bags for the rest of the life, because the endometriosis invaded that tissue and it's no longer viable.
And so in some instances, hysterectomy is do makes sense because the organ is completely invaded and there's no way that you can save it. And so, but just removing the uterus as a hysterectomy, as a preventative or as a solution to this, doesn't do anything because it's not the lining of the tissue of the uterus.
It's something separate. And again, the theory was you removed the uterus, you remove the chemical process of having a period every month that should, you know, shut it down. But it doesn't.
Damaged Parents: [00:21:42] Oh, ouch. Okay. So let's go back to. The depression and what that was like at 16, I think it was 16. You said? Yeah.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:21:53] Yeah, I was already in a deep, deep, the 16 was like my lowest point.
Damaged Parents: [00:21:58] Okay. So what happened before that? And what, what was your behavior like and what did it feel like to you?
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:22:05] I think it's very different from how, how I was feeling. And it was very different from how anybody else saw me. I was very good at hiding it because I had was told. This is normal. This is part of your, like, you know, life as a woman. So you just put a happy face on and you go about your business. And so I got very good at putting a mask on and I excelled in school.
So that was like my, my happy place I could go to school. I could, get the good grades and, and that would be kind of like, I can just sit in my chair, maybe. Doing well at something will help me get out of this help, distract me, help get out of this kind of depression. If I can just stay in this happy place, I won't go to that dark place, but that wasn't at all.
Damaged Parents: [00:22:53] right. And it sounds like earlier, you didn't have the words to discuss emotion.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:22:57] No, and I didn't know how to even know that I was depressed.
Damaged Parents: [00:23:01] Okay.
How did you figure that out? ,
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:23:04] Really when I was. Contemplating suicide. I didn't really realize how depressed that I was or like that, that wasn't what other people were feeling all the time. I was just like, I can't do it anymore. I can't, I can't live in pain like this anymore.
I didn't see it as like a mental health issue, or like something that I should be talking to other people about. Because I thought other people knew how much pain I was in,
Damaged Parents: [00:23:34] that's right.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:23:36] but I did, but nobody knew. And so that was probably the hardest thing for my parents too. My, my brother did realize because he, We shared a bathroom, poor guy.
He was like eight years old. And so when this whole thing started, he thought I was dying and he told the whole school that I was dying and I was like, no, I just had my period. And so then we had to have that conversation. But he was the only one who really recognized the change in my behavior. He was the one who would sit with me and, you know, hold my hand or bring me tea after school.
Or like sit with me. No one else really like checked in to see how I was doing. It was just like, ah, Jackie's got is if she needs anything, she'll like reach out. And here I am like, I'm, I feel like I'm dying. This can't be the rest of my life. I don't know what this feeling is, but it's all, but it was like hopelessness, but I didn't, I never experienced that before.
So I didn't have any reference point on how to talk about it. It was just expressed in these explosions of anger. So I would get to a point where, I couldn't not talk about it anymore. But the way that it was expressed was, you didn't, you put a pink sock in with my white laundry, and then I would blow up about that because that was something that we could have a conversation about.
That was something that was relatable, where I could express my emotion that I had been bottling up, but it would be attached to that thing that really had nothing to do with why I was angry.
Damaged Parents: [00:25:17] Wow.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:25:18] just the trigger point. So that was, that was a lot of hard years for my parents for all of us, for, for them being on the receiving end of these explosions and not understanding why I was exploding, except that I was, and me not knowing how to talk about what I was experiencing.
And that it wasn't normal. And that I should be telling someone that this isn't normal.
Damaged Parents: [00:25:48] that you didn't know? I mean, because everybody thought they were talking about the same thing, because cramp was cramp was cramp. Oh, you know, This is just getting me to think so much about communication in general and how I think I know what other people are talking about, and I may have no idea and they may have no idea that I have no idea.
So how do they
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:26:12] exactly the mutual mistake. That's where this mindset shift into this space of curiosity. When you shift into this space of curiosity and you say, Ooh. Like, what are you, when you say cramp? what do you mean when you say pain? Can you describe that for me? Like when you say depressed, what does that look like for you?
What does that feel like for you and just. Coming from that. And I don't know how else to say it, to say, come from a place of curiosity because asking those questions, coming from that place puts you into that mindset of, let me ask questions, let me ask what that's like. And if she explains what it's like, and that's different from what I'm experiencing, then we have a connection point.
Now we can say. That's not what I'm experiencing, so maybe that's not the right word to describe my experience. This is how I feel. Or can we talk about another way to describe pain? You know, what are different ways that you described pain? So that was. Something, I didn't realize that I already started doing until I was probably in my twenties.
That was really when I made that full switch into curiosity,
Damaged Parents: [00:27:30] So at 16, you're starting to realize
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:27:34] I'm starting to push back. I'm starting to say this is it. This is enough. I'm either going to take my own life or something is going to happen. That's different.
Damaged Parents: [00:27:42] So did you ever get to that point where you were like, I'm going to take my life and I have a plan
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:27:47] Yup. Yup.
Damaged Parents: [00:27:48] what did that feel like for you?
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:27:50] It felt like freedom. It was like, I'm going to be, it felt like I have spent my entire existence living in this pain and I can't do it anymore. And now I'm just gonna take a bunch of pills and go to sleep and I will be free from it. And. That's going to be the most amazing thing for me. And it wasn't,
Damaged Parents: [00:28:16] So you did, you did do this. You did you follow through you did. And what happened next?
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:28:22] I woke up and I thought I was dead, but I was just in my house, in my bed where I had gone to sleep and I just woke up and I was like, Okay, so that wasn't what was supposed to happen. There's something else. There's something else that needs that's preventing me from doing this. Like, that was the moment where I was like, there's something more to this, because if it was that easy, if this was my past past path, sorry, this was my path.
Then it would have just happened.
Damaged Parents: [00:28:55] great.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:28:55] But it wasn't, I w something prevented that from following through.
Damaged Parents: [00:29:00] So were you. Kind of grateful that you woke up or just
confused.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:29:05] no, no. I was, well, at that point in time, I was confused at that point in time, I was very, very confused. But it also gave me hope that there was a solution that was different from that path.
Damaged Parents: [00:29:19] So did, did you tell mom and dad, did you tell the family what you did or did you just kind of. Okay, so you didn't get help or anything. You didn't
let them
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:29:29] I wrote, I wrote a letter to my boyfriend, basically saying goodbye that my mom eventually found later on. And at that time I had already turned that corner into. Alright, if this isn't my path, then I need to pony up. And I need to be making changes. So that was really the spark that lit the fire.
That was like, all right, now you have to take in, you have to take an active role in this before you were allowing parents and doctors who knew better kind of take the lead and that's not working. So you need to take the lead. And if I hadn't had that experience, if I hadn't actually tried to go through with that.
I don't think that I would have ever gotten to that point of taking ownership of my own journey
Damaged Parents: [00:30:16] so it was kind of like what some people like alcoholics and drug addicts would call their bottoms. So you were at the bottom of the crevice depths of despair.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:30:26] Couldn't get any worse.
Damaged Parents: [00:30:27] Okay. And that was it. And you're saying that was a pivotal point for you and you, you think maybe you needed that. Okay.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:30:36] needed, I needed to fully surrender into someone else taking the ultimate leap. Right. Like I took this action, but I'm surrendering into my pain. I'm surrendering into God, the universe taking me back and they didn't. And so it was like, all right. Literally, you've been waiting for someone to save you.
Some you've been waiting for somebody to swoop in with the answers and they haven't happened. You surrendered in the most beautiful, like the most ultimate way that you could surrender into something. And they still said no. So you need to learn to take control. You need to take control of your destiny.
And I thought that's what I was doing before. It was like, I'm done. Like I'm making the decision to go out. But really it was about fully surrendering into that and realizing that is not what I was supposed to be doing. I was supposed to be taking an active role and speaking my truth and speaking up for my experience to get a result that I was looking for. So when I did that, when my mom found the letter, when I asked for the second opinion, it was like, I was making the decision to play the active role in my life for the first time ever.
Damaged Parents: [00:31:55] And what did that feel like?
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:31:57] it felt really empowering, um, scary as all hell, because I had lived 16 years of my life, letting other people make all the decisions for, you know, what medications for how long at what time.
Whatever those decisions were
Damaged Parents: [00:32:14] Okay. So when you went to the doctor with mom and dad or mom, specifically for this I'm thinking, right? she didn't. Handover the decision start to try to transition to letting you be the decision maker in what would happen, or she
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:32:29] let me be in the doctor's office by myself from the very beginning.
Damaged Parents: [00:32:34] okay.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:32:35] So I had surrendered over my choice, my, my decision-making to the person I thought who had more information,
the doctor.
I had given my power to the doctors. And at that point, my pediatrician she's a pediatrician. She's I mean, yeah, sure.
She's dealt with her own mutational cycles. She's dealt with, you know, children going through that, but,
Damaged Parents: [00:32:55] I'm going to say, and she was a doctor and the perception of a child is you've got all this knowledge. You've got
authority.
Yes. About my body.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:33:07] they know everything about my body. Yes.
And it wasn't until I went through that experience where it was like, how could they ever know my body better than me? How could anyone know my body better than me? They can't, they're not in it with me experiencing it. So how can they know my body better than me? And that was like, I, I think I knew that, but I didn't, I didn't say it that way until probably after my second opinion.
Damaged Parents: [00:33:39] Which is at what age? The twenties.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:33:42] 16. So 16 was a bad year for me. 17, 16, 17, 18. Um, so 16, I asked for my second opinion, we saw the specialist. We started seeing the best in the area for female gynecological problems.
And again, being from new England, especially Massachusetts, we have a very. Densely populated medical community. That's the top research centers. We have a lot of the best medical care and we all thought my parents, myself, my pediatrician, we all thought we did the right thing and picking this person to be my next step. And all I got from her was this is in your head. You see, you cannot meet, experiencing what you're experiencing.
Damaged Parents: [00:34:25] How did that feel when this doctor that has all this power and authority, and like you said, you know, you believe that they know how to fix you. What did that feel like to you?
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:34:35] It originally felt like initially felt like really like, okay, but what does that mean? Does that mean now? I need to go see a psychotherapist because now I like, there's something wrong with my brain and not my
body.
Damaged Parents: [00:34:49] Right. And do you, did you wonder if you were crazy?
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:34:51] Yes all the time. I really, I got, I got so paranoid that I, I ended up going for therapy for that. Because I was so mistrustful of my body and my thoughts and my experience, like she scarred me in more ways than one by making me feel like I was a crazy person. Like she made me feel like I should be committed.
Because of how adamant I was about how I was feeling. Cause at that point I had, the fire was lit under me to take that initiative, take that role of stand up for myself. And every time I stood up for myself, she would say, there's absolutely no way. And so I was like, you know what? I, I, we've now been working together for three years and I'm this isn't working.
So I want to do an exploratory surgery. And she was like,
okay,
Damaged Parents: [00:35:44] hold, hold on. So you are already feeling mistrustful. You've been. You're questioning yourself and you're still going back to this doctor. And now you're saying basically, I don't think you're right and you need to do a surgery, but it's the same person who's already been telling you. You're kind of crazy. Ouch, okay. Go ahead.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:36:07] And then she says, okay, but I'm only doing it to prove you wrong. I say, that's fine. That's fine. Do it. Because I felt at that point, if she doesn't find anything, then okay. We know it's in my head.
But if she does find something, then I'm freaking validated.
Damaged Parents: [00:36:24] And you needed that.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:36:25] I needed that like a lifeline. And then we did the surgery.
She didn't find anything. And I was in more pain than I had been before the surgery, by like 50% more pain after the surgery. I knew the minute I woke up that something was wrong and that persisted for months. And months and months, and she dropped off the face of the planet.
Damaged Parents: [00:36:55] like, there was no support after the fact.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:36:58] She was not available for a phone call at the practice. They like told me she was on bed rest for pregnancy. And then she left the practice. Never saw her again.
Damaged Parents: [00:37:12] Oh, wow.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:37:13] I. Was like, at that point, I couldn't go to school. I couldn't function. This was in June of 20 2003, I think. And I was like, I need a third opinion.
And I made it now. Like I, I'm not going to be, this was like days after the surgery. I was like, I, there is something wrong. This is not right. So I got on a wait list for a specialist in Boston. It was 18 month. Wait list. But I got myself on the wait list and the universe must have known because I got pulled off the wait list at six months after being on they're still in excruciating pain.
Every single day saw him on a Wednesday afternoon. He didn't have an opening in his O.R for like a year. Right. And I was in his O.R on Monday. So I saw him on Wednesday and I was in his O.R on Monday. Like he made an appointment. Especially for me on that Monday for me to be seen, because he knew by looking at me having one conversation with me that something was wrong.
Damaged Parents: [00:38:12] So when you had that conversation with him, was he better at identifying what at questioning to understand and being curious? Or were you just better at like, or were you just in so much pain that there was absolutely no question.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:38:28] knew. I think just by looking at me in the amount of pain that I was in, that something was wrong, but he was also like within five minutes of hearing my history, he was like, I would put money that you have endometriosis.
Damaged Parents: [00:38:41] I'm just wondering. And this is just the, the science nerd part of me wondering when, when he went in, was it. Did it present differently than what most doctors would anticipate or what no.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:38:55] Yeah. So come to find out in general, OB GYN and gynecologists are not trained in how to identify endometriosis period. So doing an exploratory, laparoscopy is something that should be done by an endometriosis specialist. She presented herself as someone who was qualified to do that type of surgery, did more harm than she did.
Good. The pictures that he took when he was in here, again, only six months from my last surgery. He's like clear as day. This is endometriosis. Here here, here, here. And here's where she laser do, where she shouldn't have done anything. It was an exploratory surgery. She wasn't supposed to be touching anything.
And she had scarred me, um, on my bladder and on my abdomen. So that pain, the additional pain was from her screw up. And the procedure that she had done, hadn't been done. Hadn't been done since the eighties, that wasn't an up to date surgical tasks that you had been doing. So he basically helped me put together a medical claim, medical malpractice claim, but we couldn't find her.
So, but yeah, he, he had seen so many women present with the same story. Feel like you're crazy. Everybody tells you that it's on your head, your pain. He did ask what does your pain feel like?
Damaged Parents: [00:40:19] were you describing the Chucky thing at that time?
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:40:22] because that was the first time anybody had asked me that. So he's like, I really want you to think about, like, if you had to explain it to a four year old, how would you explain it?
That was the only time I had ever been asked that question. And so that was I think that was probably the nail in the coffin for him to like, say, yes, I think this is endometriosis. But let's do the surgery because obviously you're in pain for some reason.
Damaged Parents: [00:40:44] Yeah. So you've had. Oh, yeah. And you've had all these challenges up to then. I mean, so I guess my question to you is how did you keep going when. I know waking up and not expecting to wake up, then. So even then after that, with this horrible botch surgery and all of, I mean, pain is exhausting and, I think it messes with the emotions.
So how did you keep going, and keep putting one foot in front of the other during this entire process?
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:41:16] , I didn't know that I was doing meditation at the time, but it was meditation. So I had started with classical music, classical music, like. As a child, my mom had, um, used classical music as like a nighttime routine kind of thing. And sleep was really the only time that I ever got relief from pain. So I would, when I would feel like I'm not going to make get through the day, I'm not like I'm not going to be able to get up from this chair or I'm not going to be able to, go to soccer practice or whatever it was.
I would put on my headphones with my little disc man or my cassette tapes, and I would just listen to the music, throw back. And I would, and I wore out those tape cassettes, like I burned.
And so then CDs came out and so my grandmother bought me this. Um, she got me to, she got me a classical CD , strings, and then she also got me.
One that was strings, but it was a guided meditation, kind of in it. And she was like, I think this has been really help. if you hate it, like, don't worry about it. And I was like, this is my new favorite thing. Like this allowed me to feel separation from my body as if I was asleep without being asleep.
And so that was my crutch was like, if I'm. I mean also prescription pain medications post very helpful. But having that go to thing of anytime that I felt like I needed to tap into, get up, get outside of my body for a minute, to be able to breathe, was meditation. And that's something that I've continued to this day that is very strong practice, that I have.
Damaged Parents: [00:42:56] so some people when they meditate well, I, okay. I guess here's the question. And then you can just answer it however you want. so I'm thinking, okay. You're, you're in a lot of pain. You're going into this meditation. It's not stopping the negative thoughts. So what. I mean, or do you just start watching the negative thoughts?
What, what are you doing to, to kind of pull yourself away? Or maybe are you leaning into the pain? I, I, during this process, just if you could explain what's happening.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:43:29] So there was a couple of different stages to this. When I first started, I didn't know what I should be doing. It wasn't like the guided meditation. It wasn't like how Headspace, for example, was always describes meditation as watching your thoughts as if they're clouds and watching them pass by. This was not that this was, come into your body feel and assess your body.
What does it feel like? And almost recognizing that your pain is not your identity. so that was kind of, I just listened to whomever was speaking into my ears and just did what they told me to do. But initially it was just listening to them music and allowing that to carry me away, carry me into, this dreamland is the best way that I can explain.
Explain it is music for me, did that. If I closed my eyes and I concentrated on just the music I could step into or lean into this world that the music created for me. So that was kind of the first stage. And so I learned how to do that very, very well. Um, and I, it was something that I continued to do as a nightly practice.
Just something my mom had set up for me as kind of like a soothing mechanism. And so I continued to do that because it was still soothing. And then the second stage when I really started after my, second surgery, my third opinion, when I met my surgeon, who's still my surgeon now. After that surgery, it was enough to where I could breathe and I felt like a human I still was in pain, but I was nowhere near the same amount of pain that I was in before.
So
Damaged Parents: [00:45:20] I was going to say, you said pain and then human. Like, you felt like a human. So what was the feeling before? If you wouldn't describe it as human, what would you describe it as.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:45:31] Alien alien in the sense that like it was foreign from anything, anyone else was experiencing, it felt like. I was trapped in this simulation almost like I was in a video game and I was the one who was, you know, getting the pins as like the pin doctor, but I still had to walk around in everybody. Else's kind of reality when I was able to find that relief. And again, I was finding this really fun my own, but in that dream state that I was creating for myself. But when I was able to get that veil lifted from the surgery, it was like, I stepped into reality with everyone else. And I, I was no longer confined into that little container that Lou doodle, I wasn't the Buddha doll anymore.
I was someone who was. Able to experience what everybody else was experiencing. So I did have joy. I did have a baseline. I knew what my baseline was. I knew when it was lower, when I was hired, like I could feel the pendulum swing, but it wasn't a constant swing back and forth. It was, I had a baseline and I knew what that felt like.
For the first time, since before I started my period, like, so.
Damaged Parents: [00:46:56] So. Okay. So maybe you felt more like what you felt like before you started, when you were 12, when you started your period. So you went from feeling like a normal, if you will. Not that we know what normal is, right. But, normal for you to this alien entity, miserable pain, pain, pain, and then you have the surgery and you kind of come back to yourself, which is why it sounds like you're saying I felt human again.
So all those years you felt judged and separated and alone probably.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:47:33] Oh yeah. So isolated, so isolated. My brother was really the only lifeline that I felt like I had to the real world to like what everybody else was experiencing. He was the only one who kind of crossed that him and my, my best friend, Megan, but, she lived on the other side of town. So my brother was with me, Every day.
And he was kind of that one that straddled that line between those two existences. And I know that that's impacted his life a lot, so I, I feel bad for it, but also it's turned him into a very sensitive, very good material husband material.
So there's pluses and minuses about that. But yeah, I think coming back to. Feeling like my self, as opposed to someone who is consumed by that pain, that alien feeling. That's how I
Damaged Parents: [00:48:27] Yeah.
So tell me how's brother doing today. Are you guys still super close
or.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:48:33] we are, yeah. There was some times, you know, when he turned like 12 where we're chasing, you're almost scissors, but, that's like normal little brother things. I think, we are very close. And I think he's still that person for me is like the gut check. Like if I'm feeling off, I'll connect with him, like just a phone call and he's like, I still sometimes doubt my intuition a lot of the time, not so much my body and my experience, but my intuition, because I had all those years of being told, no, that's not right.
Or no, that's not your experience. I learned to tell that to myself. And so. Going through that space of advocating for myself and stepping up to the plate and being an active role taker definitely, gave me confidence to listen to my body, but I don't always because I became so, aware, I guess, of the resistance I was likely to face.
I became really good at quadruple checking. In with myself, like, are you sure, like validate for me that this is really your experience validate for me and that this is really something that's happening for you as opposed to what I think other people do is they're like, yup. Okay. Gotcha. Yep. Okay. Let's move forward.
Like this is, this is how I feel. This is like a yes. Or this is a no answer or. You know, you get this full body feeling like, yes, this is the right next step, or yes, this is the way that I want to move forward. And I still question that sometimes, and that's something I'm actively working on. Breath work has been really good at like taking meditation to the next level of checking in with your body and connecting with your body and strengthening that connection between.
Your inner child intuition, however, your inner voice, whatever you want to call that and your self. And so he's still my outside of me. Gut check.
Damaged Parents: [00:50:40] right? No, I'm just wondering though, because it seems to me like, Quadruple checking myself at the end of the day might be helpful because then I'm absolutely certain that what I'm experiencing in myself, because I've checked in on it a few times is really what, in fact I'm experiencing. However, I also think this is that complex world, right?
When. I think in, cause because what you're explaining to me sounds a lot like gaslighting when, when you're having these feelings and then somebody saying, no, that's not really happening. You know, the lights are flickering, but they're not, but they're not flickering. Right. Um, The that there's probably going to always be this reserve a little bit of a residual of can I really trust myself in what I'm thinking and feeling.
And how has that impacted other relationships in your life, beyond the relationship with yourself?
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:51:39] Yeah, that's been a huge piece. That's been that second piece. That second step of healing, I didn't realize how pervasive this wound really was. In the relationships that I've had with other people, with the exception of my brother and my best friend, Megan, those two relationships have remained constant because they didn't change during that time for me.
But all of my other relationships, all of my future relationships, I was married for seven years. I no longer married a big part of that was that, that residual effect that. Was left from that wound is I saw it validation. I don't know that attention is really the right word, but, but positive attention from other people to validate my worth my, Praise or success on the things that I was doing.
And I was more susceptible to accept relationships with people who were presenting me with those opportunities to show up and succeed and get praise from them. Even if I knew that they would not be the relationship I would personally go and seek out. But I would engage in those relationships romantically and otherwise, because they were presenting me with those opportunities and that's that full circle kind of thing where I was working through last night, when I, after I was filling out the survey for this, I was like, Holy crap.
Like I really have in all aspects of my life. Sought that positive attention or validation through teachers education. I've a master's degree in a law degree and, I've gone through multiple careers and I was always seeking for that, like validation. Like, yes, you are good at that. Yes. That is something that you've succeeded at because I've always questioned it within myself.
Damaged Parents: [00:53:44] So even with a ma I just want to make this point for the listeners, because I think that was really interesting, what you just said, even with a master's and a law degree, which most people look to those two people with those degrees and think they know everything. You still feel like you need validation and you clearly are okay with saying, I don't know everything and I don't expect anyone else to either.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:54:10] Yes, and that, and I wouldn't have ever thought that unless I went through this experience with my own doctors, because I did think. My parents know everything. They had all the answers to every question in the world. My doctors had all the answers to every medical question that could ever be. And I had to go through that breaking up of that, pedestal reality to realize no one's ever gonna know your body better than you.
No one's ever gonna know your desires better than you. And it's okay. Not to know everything, but it's not okay to. know, you don't know everything and pedal off that information. So
I
Damaged Parents: [00:54:53] pretend
that you do so you don't know, but don't go. So I know you don't know everything. It kind of is what you're saying. I know you don't know everything. Don't so don't pretend that you do because when you do, I'm not going to buy it. Yeah. Wow. What a fascinating journey.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:55:10] Yeah, it's been a, it's been a long one, the medical side for sure. The beginning part of my years and just in the last, the last decade, but really the last two years has been that emotional journey and that emotional growth and that like connecting the dots back to the originating damage. We'll say the originating,
know, harm.
Damaged Parents: [00:55:33] Right. And it sounds like those last few years, they haven't been that journey. Hasn't been easy. There's been a tremendous, probably most likely a tremendous amount of processing and learning
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:55:46] Yeah. So much learning
Damaged Parents: [00:55:48] Yeah. And that's hard. So what are three things, knowing that the journey is hard and that you will make it.
And you have made it to here, right? What are three things you would tell someone else what are three tools you might give them for their journey? If they're in the midst of their struggle, right? This minute,
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:56:08] Well, first I want to say you're not alone. Hands down. You are not alone. I don't care what your journey or your damage is. There is someone out there who is experiencing something similar to what you're going through and. That was the first thing that I needed to realize to even begin this journey. So know that you're not alone.
The three tools that I have used since the beginning of my journey that I continue to use today are number one meditation. And that looks differently for everyone that looks like going for a hike and connecting with nature that looks like. Turning putting in your earbuds and turning the music up really loud and having a dance party for yourself.
It looks like sitting on a park bench and people watching. It looks like sitting on your, you know, your Buddhist pillow, your zafu, and sitting and looking in the mirror, whatever that looks like for you, that is meditation. And. Breath work, alternatively, or like I still consider breath work meditation. But if you are someone who likes to move, I would say breath work meditation can be very powerful.
The second tool is journaling 1000% journaling. I like to hand write it helps me connect with asking my inner child, my intuition, what it is that I need to hear. And I can have conversations with myself and processing, you know, what is my, what do I think? My experiences, what does my mind think? My experiences, what does my body think?
My experiences, what does my soul think? My experiences, what is my higher self experiencing? and then just being able to look back on those journal entries and seeing the progress, because when you're going through this, it feels like you're. Moving slower than a snail, and really you've made leaps and bounds of progress.
And so having that documented whether it's voice notes or typing on your computer, or, having an actual physical journal, being able to look back on that and say that day was so hard. I didn't think it was going to make it through. And I did and look at, you know, how much progress I've made. So that is my biggest.
Tool for that type of work. And then I would say the third thing is, honestly, I don't know how to explain this as like, for me it was a spiritual practice with yoga. the more like Buddhist, connection. Kind of with something that's higher than myself. So when I was able to start moving my body in different ways, yoga asanas really is, what's practiced yoga means union as a definitional.
And so it's a lot bigger than just the asanas that we do. Like in the yoga studio, I'm talking about the yoga, like the higher than self kind of connection connection to. The universe to people, to yourself that kind of exploration and acceptance, and being able to lean into that to say, I'm not alone, right?
Like someone out there is experiencing something similar. I have a community. Let me go seek that.
Damaged Parents: [00:59:21] Yeah, that's amazing. And I'm thinking, find that community
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:59:26] Yes.
Damaged Parents: [00:59:27] as I'm going to add that you get four things.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [00:59:30] that community because now they have Facebook groups of, you know, endometriosis warriors and support groups. I have my own endometriosis support group that I run. ,it's. So again, 20 years ago, we didn't have the didn't have even have in-person support groups for this.
And there are wonderful support groups on Facebook. I'm in like 14 different ones of them. It's a great space to vent and to let off steam and to find that you are in fact, not alone. Many of these groups are over like 15,000 people each, in my group, we work on specifically the holistic techniques that you can use to self manage your own.
Experience. So whether that's emotions, physical, whatever that's that is that, that yoga, that finding that union, finding that community, finding your tribe maybe is a good way to, to express that.
Damaged Parents: [01:00:18] Yeah. So if someone wanted to find you on Facebook, what do they look up?
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [01:00:22] Um, so at Jacqueline Elizabeth, um, for sure, and then my group is living pain-free with endometriosis.
Damaged Parents: [01:00:29] Living pain-free with endometriosis. Awesome. Well, cause I'll link your information in the podcast, but I just wanted to make sure we knew the group. Cause I don't see it.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [01:00:38] I wasn't thinking we were going to go down that road, but I'll, I'll send you the update with the
Damaged Parents: [01:00:42] Yeah, no. That's okay. so thank you so much for coming here today. I have really enjoyed hearing your story.
Jacqueline Elizabeth: [01:00:49] Thank you so much for having this platform. I think it's really important that we have these types of conversations, to kind of normalize that everybody has their own struggle and it is possible to, to get through it.
Damaged Parents: [01:01:01] Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Relatively Damaged by Damaged Parents. We've really enjoyed getting to talk to Jacqueline about how she learned to stand up for herself and speak her truth. We especially liked it when she reminded us that someone else is probably experiencing something similar, find them. To unite with other damaged people, connect with us on Instagram. Look for damaged parents. We'll be here next week still relatively damaged. See you then.
