Episode 13: Redefining Life after a Divorce

Bio: Jennifer Kwan is the mother of four, and the grandmother of three. Divorced in 2000 with all of her children under the age of 8, and was single for over 13 years. She learned a lot about forgiveness, love, embracing life, and moving forward. She is a massage therapist and was an executive in a nutritional business for 8 years and participated in and facilitated personal development and coaching within this environment for many years. She was in charge of SA conferences for several years within her church and has taught seminary for three years.

Jennifer married her husband in May of 2011. They continue to learn from each other and enjoy serving others. Together they have been ropes course instructors, and have also have worked for five years with the inmates in the Los Angeles County jail system on a two-day personal leadership program helping them understand and giving them tools to change underlying belief systems so they can move forward and create something different in their lives. 2018-2019 together they served an 18 month mission for their church in Hong Kong and also had projects in Mongolia.

Currently Jennifer is enjoying grandchildren, writing, yoga, and serving in the temple. She also serves in the women’s organization of her church as a 1st Counselor in the Relief Society for her stake.

Find her here: Creating an Inspired Life (ainspiredlife.com)

Podcast transcript below:

Damaged Parents: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Relatively Damaged Podcast by Damaged Parents. Where alone, confused, unsure people come to learn. Maybe just, maybe we're all a little bit damaged. Someone once told me it's safe to assume 50% of the people I meet are struggling and feel wounded in some way. I would venture to say it's closer to 100%. Every one of us is either currently struggling or has struggled with something that made us feel less than like we aren't good enough.

We aren't capable. We are relatively damaged. And that's what we're here to talk about in my ongoing investigation of the damage self. I want to better understand how others view their own challenges. Maybe it's not so much about the damage. Maybe it's about our perception and how we deal with it. There is a deep commitment to becoming who we are meant to be. How do you do that? How do you find balance after a damaging experience? My hero is the damaged person, the one who faces seemingly insurmountable odds to come out on the other side hole.

Those who stared directly into the face of adversity with unyielding persistence to discover their purpose. These are the people who inspire me to be more fully me. Not in spite of my trials, but because of them, let's hear from another hero.

Today's topic includes sensitive material, which may not be appropriate for children. This podcast is provided for informational purposes only, and is not intended as advice. The opinions expressed here were strictly those of the person who gave them.

Today, we're going to talk with Jennifer Kwan. She has many roles in her life daughter, mother, sister, wife, grandmother, friend, step parent, cousin, and mother-in-law. We'll talk about how she found the courage to leave an unhappy marriage with four young children and redefined who she is. Let's talk!

Hi, Jen, welcome to relatively damaged. I'm really happy you're here today.

Jennifer Kwan: [00:02:13] I am too. Thank you.

Damaged Parents: [00:02:15] You're welcome. Thank you for agreeing to come on and talk about something that you struggled with that was really hard for you,  and how you found hope. So if you could just give us a little bit about the struggle you want to talk about today.

Jennifer Kwan: [00:02:32] Well, when I was, this was gosh, back in. Probably 97 and I had four little kids under the age of two. And,  well, my youngest was two. My oldest was eight. And around that time a few years in there, I remember I was in a car accident and it was one of those car accidents. It was really intense that my life flashed before my eyes and some of us, or all of us should have been killed, but we weren't.

And there definitely was,  I felt miracles involved when a police. When the police came upon the scene, we were in the middle of nowhere on the way to Idaho, to a family reunion. And at the time I was married to my first husband and he, this police officer who'd been on the force for many decades was really shook up.

And he said, I've never seen an accident like this, where at least a few people have perished. So we knew that there was, there were miracles involved and I remembered that time. Really looking at my life and asking the question, okay, if this was it, and if I died,

 Damaged Parents: [00:03:44] okay.

Jennifer Kwan: [00:03:44] Would I have regrets? How do I feel about my life? How do I feel about what I'm doing and where I'm at? And the truth is it was a resounding no, and I knew that I was not living in integrity with myself and. That I was allowing things in my marriage and relationship that weren't good.

Damaged Parents: [00:04:08] So. Real quick. I want to investigate that feeling of the accident, what did that physically feel like beyond the pain of the accident, but the emotions that went through your mind that led you to end what that felt like that led you to that conclusion?

Jennifer Kwan: [00:04:25] It was utter terror that if I died and I was going to meet my maker, that I knew that I was not being true to me. That I was not living my fullest potential and that my whole life was about trying to make somebody else. Okay. So that I could be okay. And I knew that I was not coming from my, the core of who I am and who I believe God made me to be.

Damaged Parents: [00:04:50] Right. Okay. Okay. So now you're at the accident. This, uh, highway patrolmen comes up and he's surprised were you questioning yourself in that moment or did it take a little bit.

Jennifer Kwan: [00:05:03] It took a little bit because I was in shock and I had, at the time of this accident, the kids were between the ages of about six and one.

Damaged Parents: [00:05:13] okay.

Jennifer Kwan: [00:05:14] And so I was in shock and my little two-year-old had a broken leg and she was one that was in a car seat. And it literally that the vehicle had rolled a few times over the freeway and.

Anyway, it was bad. So we were all in shock. A few of them, few of us were life-flighted if you were taken by ambulance anyway. So no, it took a while for the aftermath of that to process all of that. And that's when I started really thinking and evaluating my life. It was after the accident, but that accident really was the true beginning of me discovering where I was really at and what I was doing.

And frankly, it was the beginning of the end of. That marriage, because I no longer could buy into and behave in certain ways and allow certain things I knew was not right. And that it was not in my best interest. Right. So that's kind of where I was at at that time.

Damaged Parents: [00:06:12] yeah, that sounds painful. Like when you were figuring this out and you knew that probably it was going to end. How did you cope with that?

Jennifer Kwan: [00:06:24] Well, it took a few years because at that time in my life, I was so driven by fear and again, driven by the need to. Have others be okay, so that I could be okay because I wasn't okay. Unless others around me were okay. That is how I got my value and my validation. So it took a few years because in that process I kinda went back and forth between, well, you know, maybe, you know, and fear will do that fear.

Just kind of, I allowed it to, I just, I wasn't, I wasn't ready. And. So it was a few years later. And when I got to the point and there had been counseling involved in a lot of other things and the details of what happened in the marriage, aren't important. I think the important takeaway here is that I eventually got to the point where when I started fantasizing about driving off a cliff, rather than leave the marriage, I thought, okay, This is crazy.

This is crazy. And so I am a very religious person and that was not that, that was a challenge that was actually helped, but it was hard because I take those commitments extremely seriously. And it's not something that I believe you just do. So

Damaged Parents: [00:07:40] you're talking about the potential of leaving the marriage as the commitment that you take seriously because of your religious beliefs.

Jennifer Kwan: [00:07:47] Absolutely. And it was a process. And I remember just praying and praying and praying and getting that feeling that this was not what God was wanting for me. And at that point in my life, I didn't know what was possible. I just knew that what I was in was not. Good and that it was not gonna leave me to my best self or my children.

Damaged Parents: [00:08:14] it sounds. Yeah. And it sounds really very difficult because you've got this inside of you. I made this commitment. My belief is that when I'm married, I stay married and now I'm contemplating driving off a cliff. Or leaving. And how did you get to the point where you felt okay about leaving? Was it that you didn't, you knew you, you didn't, you wouldn't take your own life or what, w

Jennifer Kwan: [00:08:44] Yeah, well, I, I knew that I wouldn't take my own life in it. I don't think it was that I was actually suicidal, but I was to the point where it was so painful that I just wanted the pain to stop. I just wanted the pain to stop. So I. Was able to process and get to the place where I knew that the situation was not going to change. And I had two choices. I could either stay in my life would be continued to be what it was or I could leave it. And with the possibility, because remember this time I am still driven by fear. So I am leaving based on the possibility that I can create something different for my life and my children.

Let's not forget that I've got four kids under the age of eight now at this point. And I had never worked outside the home. And so all the responsibilities, all the financial stuff, all of that stuff was just looming. But I am a firm believer that. Until the pain of staying in a certain situation is a greater than the pain of changing it. That is when we make the shift, that is when we're willing to do it. And that's where I was at the pain of staying in that. And continuing in that was much greater than the possibility of this other thing and this possible life. And I didn't know that I could do it. I didn't know that I could be successful.

I didn't know that I could. Put my life back together, the shattered pieces that I felt was happening, but at least I had the possibility and the hope. And so I did.

Damaged Parents: [00:10:14] I think it takes a tremendous amount of courage to, you know, you said, and so I did it's it's like you came to this conclusion that. Well here, I'm just going to do this because I'm hurting so much over here. And that sounds like it would be super scary too, because you're in this relationship. You're a kind of basically afraid to leave and you're having to find the courage to leave at the same time. So where did you turn to find that courage beyond the fact that the pain was so bad here, that you went over here and you knew you needed to walk down this other path?

Jennifer Kwan: [00:10:56] Well, there were several factors and the biggest factor is even though I was absolutely. Petrified. I knew that I was doing the right thing. And so, because at a core level, I knew that I was doing what was right. I was able to do it. That's number one, number two, I surrounded myself with people who supported me and could help me kind of navigate it, including counseling and other support type, , situations. I went to a support group that was affiliated with our church at the time as well. I mean, there, there were several things that I had in place in my life to help support me, get through the trauma of that. And it wasn't a 15 minute process. I mean, it took a long time. I mean, I would say that it took at least a year to sort of get my feet under me. And then another year to get my bearings, to start putting the pieces back together of my life.

Damaged Parents: [00:11:57] So you found safe people. It sounds like.

Jennifer Kwan: [00:12:00] Yes. Safe people and focused on the things that I did know,

Damaged Parents: [00:12:04] Okay.

Jennifer Kwan: [00:12:06] that I was sure of, that I knew that I was a child of God. I knew that Heavenly Father loved me. I knew that. The savior would be there for me, no matter what my life circumstances were. I knew that I was still a mother. So I, I grounded myself in the things that I knew and focused on that instead of focusing , on the mess.

Damaged Parents: [00:12:27] Okay, so you kind of shifted then your perspective. So I think that's really interesting that you focused instead of on what was wrong, what you did know and what made you and the potential for the positives? Not the negatives.

Jennifer Kwan: [00:12:42] Yes. There was a book that I read at this time. That was another thing that really helped was reading really good stuff. So I was very careful about what I was putting in my mind. And one book that I read when I was in the middle of this crazy traumatic, anxious time of figuring, what am I going to do with my life?

And it was Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl. I love that book. And the first third of the book is pretty rough because it is about, he was a Jew and he was a psychiatrist and he was in a concentration camp. And so the first third of the book is talking about the horrors of what actually went on and what he saw.

And the reason why he wasn't murdered is because he was educated and he had a strong body and he could work. And so what was so powerful for me in that book is he talked about seeing people who, the ones who died. And kind of gave up and the ones who didn't in this horrible, horrible situation. And he said that he could see it.

He could see it in their eyes when they gave up hope he could see it when they just were basically done. And within a few days, they left this world. And the big takeaway from that book for me was. You can take a person's money, their clothes, their hair, their health, you can take their food, you can take everything from them, but you cannot take what a person thinks about and what is happening on the inside of them.

That is, that is yours. That is mine. That is ours. Nobody can take it, nobody can control it. And so how he got through that process is he started visualizing himself. After the fact and getting through this horrific, he was in and he was imagining, standing up and speaking in front of thousands of people talking about this experience about how he got through it.

That book was so impactful for me. And that is what really helped me kind of shift my perspective into focusing on the possibilities and focusing on what could be. Available to me, as opposed to the fear and what I was losing or other people's judgment, or what's gonna happen to my kids, or how am I going to support them and on and on and on and on, and all of the other frankly, legitimate concerns of how am I going to take care of these kids?

Damaged Parents: [00:15:02] Right. I mean, yeah, for kids.

Jennifer Kwan: [00:15:05] We're kids. Yes. And at this time, so when the marriage ended, my youngest was three and my oldest was eight.

Damaged Parents: [00:15:13] So were you afraid of what the divorce would mean for them also?

Jennifer Kwan: [00:15:21] Absolutely. I was very concerned. I knew that there would be issues, but I had to weigh that out with. What kind of issues would they have if I stayed in that kind of situation and what would they think of me? Because we teach our children how to have relationship. We teach our children by what we do and what we allow.

Damaged Parents: [00:15:41] Yeah, because we teach people how to treat us right.

Jennifer Kwan: [00:15:44] Absolutely. And, and our children, we teach them how they should be treated. So I had to weigh out, , Am I going to stand up for myself and be true to myself and show them that that is a possibility, regardless of anything else that's going on or not. And so, again, like I said, it, because I knew what I was doing was right.

That's how I was able to get through it.

Damaged Parents: [00:16:10] So it sounds like even in the midst of all the chaos, you were able to find peace and because you found peace. Yes. It was still scary and yes, we were having to, to. Kind of really maybe re identify who you not, that's not right. Not really identify who you were, but find maybe you had to become curious about who you were without the marriage.

Jennifer Kwan: [00:16:34] Oh, definitely. I think it was a total and complete reinvention. Yeah. Of who I was because who I was, who I believed I was, was a reflection of what somebody else said I was. And that took me a long time to unwind from that and much longer than that marriage, because I repeated that a little bit in other scenarios.

Damaged Parents: [00:16:56] Okay. So explain to me real quick, what that means that you were basically what he told you you were right. Is that what you're saying?

Jennifer Kwan: [00:17:07] So because I was operating from a place of not feeling like I was enough on my own, which we know in scripture, God tells us that we are. Children of God. And he tells us who we are, but sometimes our family of origin issues. And we all have them. I mean, we all have family stuff. There are no, there is no one that doesn't, that escapes without some of this stuff.

So, because I inherently felt like I was not enough. Then what I created was a situation where someone was. Telling me inadvertently. I was not enough. And no matter what happened, I felt like I wasn't enough. So I felt like I needed to be what he wanted me to be or what others told me that I should be to be okay.

So if they were okay with me, then I was okay, that was a validation for who I am.

Damaged Parents: [00:17:57] Oh,

Jennifer Kwan: [00:17:58] I was operating from a belief that I was not okay. And I was not enough. And because I was operating from that belief, that is why I created that relationship and others, the way that I did. Does that make sense?

Damaged Parents: [00:18:11] I think so. So I think what I hear you saying is because you needed the validation that then you got into a relationship with someone who, who would give it to you at a price, right? Because now. Yeah. Now you don't know who you are, but because you became the person because you needed the validation so bad, you became the person he thought you should be.

And even in all of your other relationships, you did the same thing because it mattered what they thought of you and how they perceived you and not how you perceived you. And you couldn't be confident. In who you were and own that this is who I am. And I'm okay with that.

Jennifer Kwan: [00:18:54] Yes. And that was a process. That was a process. And I think that that isn't, that isn't something that happens overnight. It's something that happens over time. And I think as we look at our life and our current life, and we look at the quality of the relationships around us, I think that that can give us tremendous insight about what we're creating.

And to that point, I knew that I wanted to marry again. At some point, but I also knew that I had so much work to do on myself. And because I started understanding some of these concepts, I knew that if I married soon that I would create something very similar. And I did not want that. I think in that way, fear was such a blessing because I was so afraid.

Of getting into a similar situation that I would rather be alone, then Ben, to recreate a situation that caused that kind of pain.

Damaged Parents: [00:19:53] and you hadn't healed yet. And you knew that now, did you know know that or did you figure that out later?

Jennifer Kwan: [00:20:00] I knew, I knew that. I knew that I knew that if I actually got into another serious thing that. It was just not going to be good. And again, like I said, I was so scared and my walls were so high that I was not going to let, I was not going to let anybody in, but I think it, I think that protected me. I think at that time in my life, it was good because it gave me the time that I needed to really heal and get some stuff figured out to create the relationship.

I hoped even though I didn't really believe it was possible. I hoped that it was possible. And then the more I continued working on me, then eventually I was able to be open to that when it came into my life. And then that's another process of growth and, yeah.

Damaged Parents: [00:20:45] I'm sure of that. How long after the breakup or the divorce? You know, you know that you've got this work to do. You've said you knew, knew inside. When did you start noticing that you were starting to make these little changes or did you one day just noticed that something changed?

Jennifer Kwan: [00:21:06] I think that is a great question. Let me back up just for one second.

Damaged Parents: [00:21:11] Yeah.

Jennifer Kwan: [00:21:12] Along with all these emotional things. We still have the fact that I have to figure out if I'm going to take care of these kids, right? How am I going to take care of four kids and put food on the table and handle this stuff? So I, again, this, I felt like this was a God thing, too.

I was led into a clinical massage therapy. And I started, I am going somewhere with this and I'm going to answer your question. So I became a massage therapist and I was re by referral only, uh, I had a chiropractor friend who was referring some people to me and I also had others referred to me. So it was strictly, a referral basis.

Cause I did it in my home, but I was trying to figure out something I could do so that I could still be. Basically a stay at home mom, put food on the table and take care of these children. I knew that my highest priority was being a mom. I wanted to be a good mother and I want it to be as available as possible.

So I started doing that and I was very, very blessed to be able to work from home. And then I was led into becoming a part of this nutritional company. And at the time it was an MLM company. And for me, it was a very powerful. Amazing choice because I was able to create something amazing and a significant income by working at home.

And so by me creating some success, that way, those things helped me develop and become more okay with who I was, because I was then providing evidence that look, Jen, you can do it. You can create this. You can do this on your own. Not that any of us really do it on our own, but without somebody else telling you, this is who you are, and this is who you need to be or whatever, whether it is overt or covert, because most of the time in relationships, it's a very covert thing.

People don't come out and directly often say whatever, but it's, it's kind of this underlying, this underlying thing. And so in that process of providing for my children, creating those businesses and becoming successful in that way, I was showing myself I can do this. And so I think that was a really critical part of my process in my healing

Damaged Parents: [00:23:36] Right.

Jennifer Kwan: [00:23:37] To be a whole person.

Damaged Parents: [00:23:39] Right. So I think what I hear you saying is. It took you kind of stepping out and trying new things. And as you did that, and you had some success, then you started recognizing that maybe, or I'm going to say maybe that there's some value because I'm thinking there was probably still some questioning happening at the beginning there in that beginning point of time of did you

Jennifer Kwan: [00:24:04] Definitely definitely.

Damaged Parents: [00:24:06] Yeah,

Jennifer Kwan: [00:24:06] And a lot of times the fear and all of that, but I mean, I think most of us know that as we push through that fear and we do it anyway, I mean, my, my motivation was pretty big. I had four mouthes to feed, well, five, right? I mean, I there wasn't a plan B. I had to make this happen for my family.

I mean, what was my choice? Sit in a corner and, you know, cry. I mean, what's that going to do? I mean, not that there isn't value in crying. I did that too. Trust me. I definitely had, I called them thumb sucking moments, you know, where you're like, Oh my gosh. But. No. I mean, what's the alternative. So, so my motivation was pretty high.

It was pretty, pretty intense. And so I just put my head down and went to work, but I think that was one of the most powerful things that I could have done because again, like I said, that started helping me create evidence that I can do it. got to do this. I can do this. I can be successful. And I remember I have to share, I had a goal and I wanted to take my children on a cruise  and me and them and my brother went and friends went.

I think my mom, I can't remember who all went, but anyway, I remember sitting on this cruise ship with them. And it was just the most amazing feeling that this was a goal that I, that I had had. And, and we, I remember we were on the Island, one of our stops, it was St. Martin and I wanted to buy this. Pink Sapphire necklace.

And I was just bent on this pink Sapphire necklace, and I thought, you know what? I'm going to buy this piece of jewelry for me. I've taken my kids on a cruise, I've accomplished this thing and I'm going to get a pink Sapphire necklace. And so I was shopping in these and these jewelry stores and I found this pink Sapphire ring.

That was so amazing. It was pink Sapphire and it had diamonds and some, some Opelin. And anyway, it's I love the ring and, but I was still looking for this. Necklace, but I kept going back to this ring and long story short, I ended up buying this ring and it was so symbolic for me, several things. Number one, we think we know what we want and sometimes it ends up being something else.

Okay. So it ended up being the ring. I really wanted the ring, not the necklace really taught me being open to what. That sometimes life gives us things that not only are incredibly valuable, but it also really will give us what we want as we're working and doing everything that we can do. We just have to be patient.

Okay. That's number two, that it also was very significant because as I looked at that ring, it was a symbol of me being able to create something of value. And again, showing evidence that I can do this. And I still wear that ring every day. I wear that ring. I have my wedding ring and I have that ring and it's a commitment that I am going to be me.

I'm going to be who I am and I'm going to bring all of myself and the best of me too whatever situation I'm in and continue growing and moving forward. So that was just such a powerful experience, that whole cruise and the joy and the best part too. when I came back, it was worth double what I paid.

So that was even better, but

Damaged Parents: [00:27:27] Oh, wow. So you really felt valid. Great at that moment, like I made a good purchase.

Jennifer Kwan: [00:27:32] was great.

That was pretty powerful. That was a powerful moment for me.

Damaged Parents: [00:27:35] yeah. And it sounds like also one of the things that that ring reminds you to do is to stay curious about what's coming and not get stuck in. Um,

Jennifer Kwan: [00:27:48] What I think things should be

Damaged Parents: [00:27:50] yes. Yeah, yeah.

Jennifer Kwan: [00:27:53] Being open to what is in my best interest, because here's the thing, when we're in the middle of the mess, we cannot see the possibilities we think we know, but it's based on a very limited idea based on our past and based on our limitations when we are so stuck to that idea, whatever that idea is.

We can't see, what's possible. We cannot see what's possible for us. And I think that is where trusting the process and whatever anybody else's beliefs are for me, it's about trusting God and what he's bringing into my life. So whatever people call it, their higher power, whatever it's trusting that process, that life really truly will bring you what you need, not what you think you want, but what you need when it's time. And happens. It's beautiful. It's a beautiful thing.

Damaged Parents: [00:28:45] it really is. And I want to ask about your higher power, your God. , and the reason I want to, I want to ask about that is because what I'm. When I, I started thinking about, as we're talking is, wow, this higher power must be really loving because you made these mistakes. And although you struggled because of your belief, then you were able to leave and it doesn't sound to me.

Like you felt that that creator higher power, God held that against you. That, so I'm thinking you're. Your God has got to be this loving, forgiving being. And how did you find that? How did that happen for you?

Jennifer Kwan: [00:29:31] You mean my spiritual journey in general?

Damaged Parents: [00:29:33] Sure. Why not? Let's do it if you're okay with that.

Jennifer Kwan: [00:29:37] honestly, when I was born, I just have always felt very connected to my father in heaven. I just always, always have, and I knew that he loved me Because of my family of origin, of false belief that I had about that was that I needed to be perfect in order to be loved and to be okay.

And if I was perfect enough, then I would be okay, but I almost is like you, but you have to reach this standard to be a worthy person. Now I'm not talking about doing good things and what I believe about commandments and all of that, that's something different. I'm talking about worthiness as a human being.

Okay. So this whole process, I think has been very interesting for me because what it taught me is that it's not about. Making a mistake or not making a mistake or whatever. It's about this whole process of growth based on our upbringing. And he knows us and he loves us and he wants us to be successful and he wants us to grow.

And so the mercy and the grace and the love is more than anything. I think we can even comprehend or put into words. And so for me, I look back at my life now and I don't think, Oh man, I made this mistake and I should have. And what about, and I'm looking at it as this grand plan of, and I, I know that this sounds weird, but I still know that I married, who I was supposed to marry.

I brought the children into the world. We brought the children into the world that we were supposed to, and because of the situation, I've had a chance to grow. He's had a chance to grow. Each of my children are having a chance to grow and we all continue to, and what we choose to do with it. Now that's another story that's individual, but I believe that it's part of the process.

It's part of the plan and. I think it's really important for us to learn, to be more gentle with ourselves. And when we can shift our perspective from being so hard on ourselves about certain things of our past will, if I had just done this, or if I'd just done that, or if I had been in a different place or if I had whatever it's, it's part of it's part of the process, it's part of who we are.

And so I can look back and go, Oh my goodness, I am a completely different person than I was then. I mean, I can't even imagine making some of the choices that I made back then, just because that's not where I'm at anymore. You know what I mean,

Damaged Parents: [00:32:03] but you needed that to get to where you are now.

Jennifer Kwan: [00:32:05] Exactly, exactly. And to appreciate and to, be able to continue moving forward. I think there's a lot of value in that. And for me, that was a huge shift. That was a huge shift to move away from just beating myself up so much that I was in certain circumstances and letting go of that and going to an empowering place of what am I needing to learn?

What is God trying to teach me? How can I move forward from this?

What can I do with this?

Damaged Parents: [00:32:36] Yeah. Yeah. So at first it sounds like you had this belief from your family of origin that you had to be perfect. And in fact, you did beat yourself. It sounds like you did beat yourself up over that a little bit, because if you weren't poor a lot.

Okay.

Jennifer Kwan: [00:32:50] A lot. Yes. all about me and if something was wrong, it was my fault. Cause it was about me. Okay. Go on.

Damaged Parents: [00:32:58] Oh, wow. Okay. So, I mean, did it, was it in reading Man's Search for Meaning, was it in that you had support from your church and in support groups there, was it in counseling? How did your belief of God change in shift? Or what did you start noticing that helped that process happen?

Jennifer Kwan: [00:33:19] The answer is yes. I think the answer is that is a process. I think it's a process and it's, I think it's a little bit of all of it. And I have to say that I literally, my prayers literally were heavenly father helped me see myself the way you see me helped me see things in a way that is, is more in line with how you. Yeah. How do you want me to seat? So I specifically was praying for that and I believe that prayer is very powerful. And when we specifically are asking for help in that way, he's gonna bring us the right people, the right books, the right, the right. Talk wherever or the right podcast or the right. I mean, whatever it is, I think that God uses all of these things to help us move forward.

And I think repetition, and at certain times we're ready to hear something a certain way that maybe we've heard it 12 times, but this one day our heart is open and ready to receive it differently. And so we do. And so, yeah. So the short answer is yes, but it's, it's a process. It's a process. And, and honestly, I mean, I've been married for almost 10 years now, to my husband, Joe, I was single for 13 years and, and sometimes I'll still visit that place of beating myself up or wishing that I had done things different, not in my previous marriage, but with other things.

And I have to remind myself, no, I think that these, These beliefs, these underlying beliefs still can creep in and we have to manage them and just remind ourselves. That is just not true. Who does God say? I am?

Who does God say you are? Who does God say? I am.

Damaged Parents: [00:35:05] So it sounds like you are still using those tools that you learned so long ago, when you, when you left your first husband

to shift from yeah. To shift from the negative to the po..., not even the positive, I think. I want to say to what you can see as real, like, would you, am I kind of on the right track there?

Jennifer Kwan: [00:35:28] Yes. And definitely.

Damaged Parents: [00:35:30] Which means, again, you go back to it's. It's something that I do inside my mind.

Jennifer Kwan: [00:35:37] Yes. And in your heart. And I think that our mind and our heart, and I also call it the gut, that soul deep, deep place where, you know, you just know. And I think when those three things are connected, your mind, your heart and your gut. I call that being congruent. And when you are congruent, when all three of those things match, what you say, what you feel, what you, what you think when those things are in alignment, then you are congruent with yourself and there's a lot more peace, a lot more peace.

Damaged Parents: [00:36:11] So what does that feel like to you being congruent? Can you explain the, maybe the physical sensation of what you read in you, what you recognize when you're being congruent?

Jennifer Kwan: [00:36:22] I feel at peace. I feel joy and it doesn't mean that there's not other sadness in my life or other things that I might wish were different or maybe, you know, people around me. You know, I mean, there is no perfect, but I think it's about knowing that what I am doing and how I am behaving and how I am showing up in the world is congruent with, with who I want to be, and that I'm continuing to move forward and grow.

So, you know, the short answer is it it's peaceful that human, nobody stays in that state all the time. And because we're growing and changing and we have different opportunities is always going to come up. Our insecurities are always going to come up at times. The question is, how long do we stay in those fearful, scary, doubtful, whatever feelings before we shift out of it.

I think that's it. How quickly do we recognize it? And then how quickly do we shift out of it to something that's more empowering? I think that's where the power is.

Damaged Parents: [00:37:25] So I think what you're alluding to is that over time as you practice these things, it gets easier to recognize and then shift. But I'm, I'm thinking you probably still find your catch yourself. Like you'll be doing something and you'll find yourself in that thought process or that negative thought process.

And you know, maybe you won't recognize it right away. Yeah. But five, 10, maybe a couple of days later. Right. And then, and then you can come back to that. Am I, am I off base there or is that kind of what happens?

Jennifer Kwan: [00:38:00] I think that's totally true because again, we're human, we're human and things happen and life happens and test us. And I feel like life kind of says, are you sure? Are you really sure? So you're sure of who you are. I mean, we're tested  And we're tested in our acceptance of others and, and letting go and, and choosing to continue moving forward or what we focus on.

I mean, look at this past year with the pandemic and all of the social issues and all of these things, I mean, it has affected everybody. It is just everybody. I mean, the most grounded people have been when I say grounded, I mean, emotionally grounded in who they are just very stable, emotionally, grounded people. I mean, it, this is, this has rattled everyone on some level because it just, it has been, it has been a lot and it's been a really big test. And who am I? What is my life about? And what do I need to do to move forward and to be, to be where I need to be emotionally today right now? What am I focusing on? Am I listening to the news too much?

Am I, am I putting things in my head that are not producing good feelings? We're not going to feel good all the time, but we, there there's a healthy balance there.

Damaged Parents: [00:39:22] So getting information is one thing maybe, whereas sometimes there's a whole bunch of too much negative and then we give to refocus.

Jennifer Kwan: [00:39:32] and that can trigger old stuff, you know, it can, it can trigger your old stuff and old thought patterns. And, but again, we, we have to choose, we choose and read shoes and read shoes and read shoes. Cause we're, I mean, we're human and it's going to happen.

Damaged Parents: [00:39:46] right. And so just because you dealt with it once, doesn't mean you're not going to have to deal with it again, or it's not going to come up again and that's okay. Now you have more tools in your , tool, chest. Okay. So. Um, I'm interested in, uh, in a couple of things. So do you, what do you think being w I think it was the fifth child, right.

Of, of a family. How much do you think that had to do with your, needing that validation and that, um, from, just from everyone and, yeah, we'll go with that for right now.

Jennifer Kwan: [00:40:18] In about my, my family situation is I was the fifth child. So in ranking, I actually was the baby, but then eight years later, my mom had another baby and the old and the older siblings were gone. So I actually was the baby for a time. And then I was the oldest. I was in that role for the time. So, and my parents had their own challenges going on.

And so basically I felt like I was the mom. So my brother and my parents, and I think that had more to do with it than anything else of, if, if I can be the good one, you know, if I can be so perfect, then you know, I can have my needs met. And I think that that's kinda where I, I think that's kind of where I went.

So I do think that that definitely affected it, but again, we all have family stuff. We all have family stuff. And I think that it is our responsibility to take a look at it and to decide what we're going to do with it and how can we move forward and how can we make our families be different and how can we empower ourselves and our children and their children operate from a better place, a higher place, and to help them with those lessons.

Damaged Parents: [00:41:34] Right. And I think your belief is that you're here to learn and grow, right? And so if you're here to learn and grow and your children are also here to learn and grow, can you be a perfect parent?

Jennifer Kwan: [00:41:46] Nope. Can I beat myself up about that too? I'm like, you know, I'll do something, I'll go. I'm sure that you're going to be in therapy about this someday, but.

Damaged Parents: [00:41:54] Did it, how long did it take you to get to that point where you were okay. Knowing that because you worked so hard at being such a great parent. I mean, that sounds like that was one of your main goals. So when did you get to that point where you're like, well, I'm in trouble either way. So here we go.

Jennifer Kwan: [00:42:09] Last week? No, not really. You know, that's been a process too. That's been a process too, you know, accepting and loving our children based on who they are and not what we want them to be. Right. And it's true with our spouse to loving them and accepting them and honoring them and supporting them for who they are versus what we want them to be.

And that's not even saying anything. Bad about, about any person, but, you know, we have ideas about what we want for our children and the kind of life that we want for them. And, and then they just go about living their own life and you're like, wait a minute.

 Damaged Parents: [00:42:50] well, and I'm thinking from a child's perspective, the parent who insists that. What success looks like and the feelings of failure that is from, from the child's perspective that can come from that, because now they're not, you've got this parent with power and authority saying you're no good. , essentially

Jennifer Kwan: [00:43:10] So I decided that when I die, I want my children to say, and to feel deep in their heart that no matter what they did. No matter what their choices are, no matter what their lives look like, or didn't look like that. I loved them and honored them for who they are as people, no matter what that is, what I want them to say about me.

And so every conversation that I have with them, every interaction that I have with them, that is what I'm thinking about. How do I want them to feel about. This relationship and, and, and who I am as, as a person in re in relation to supporting them as people now. I mean, people who know me are very clear on what my beliefs are and I mean, there's no question.

So I'm not talking about, I'm not talking about, um, Not, not honoring my own beliefs about anything, but our children know what we believe. They're very clear they were written. I don't think that it's necessary for us to pound our beliefs or whatever. If, if our children, make other choices depending on what that is, whether it's education or no matter what the subject is, right. Or whatever. So. I think that is the real question. The question is, what kind of relationships do we want with them and who whomever we choose to have relationships with? So, yes, so them feeling the love and support, and that, that is number one, that that is more important than anything is my love for them.

Damaged Parents: [00:44:46] So coming from this perfectionistic background and having these kids and wanting, I'm assuming wanting your family to look a certain way at some point, right? Like how long did it take you to figure out that the kids didn't need to do things a certain way? I mean, were you always that way or how does that work?

Jennifer Kwan: [00:45:09] Oh, no, I struggled and struggled and struggled because remember it was all about me. So. And failure and pain and hurt and whatever it was about me. Right. So if I was a good parent, then it would look a certain way because now remember I'm a single parent. And so now I have double duty and I have to really like, you know, show up. And so that, that has been a huge process for me as well. And it's funny because I joke with my kids and I tell them how, what an opportunity they have given me to perfect this letting go.

They've given me a lot of opportunity for that. So, you know, it just, the times it's been very messy. And I definitely have had times that if I could go back and do things different, I would, but I'm grateful that I am where I am now. And honestly, I think that there's been well. I know, I mean, there's been a lot of prayer with that too, where, you know, the prayer has been Heavenly Father help me see them, how you see them.

Damaged Parents: [00:46:08] Yeah. And you know, they wouldn't have anything to work on if you had done it perfectly the first time. Anyway.

Jennifer Kwan: [00:46:13] Yeah, except for the fact that we all have our agency and we choose our life and what we do, you know, that little thing

Damaged Parents: [00:46:21] I know it was, it was just prime joke moment.

Jennifer Kwan: [00:46:24] My kids are wonderful and I love them. And I'm so, so, so grateful for them and who they are as people. And they are amazing people. I mean, each one of them, they are so talented and I can say that every one of them, they know how to handle themselves with the world and they are good, good people at the core.

And. I'm just really proud of each of them and, and lots of, you know, in many different, in many different ways. So I I'm grateful, very grateful.

Damaged Parents: [00:46:54] That's awesome. Okay. Three things you want the listeners to walk away with?

Jennifer Kwan: [00:47:01] Three things. Okay. Number one, I would say you are more than your current struggle or situation that you may be in. So no matter what's happening in your life, it's really easy to hyper focus on it and feel like this is it. So yes, number one, you're more than your current struggle or circumstances. And number two, what you focus on grows.

It gets bigger. So if you are focusing on the mass, if you're focusing on the, the problems, that is what you're going to see, you're going to see more of it. And it's very difficult to see the other possibilities and how to move forward and how to, change things and beyond that path. So what you focus on grows.

So be very careful about what you're thinking about and what you're focused on. And number three, I would say surround yourself with people who love you and support you and are moving in the same direction you are. Either they're where you want to be in certain aspects of their life, or they are on a similar path because they will, we'll be able to support you and help you in getting to where you want to go.

No, man is an Island. We don't do this by yourself. Nobody. And it is a process and it's. I believe that this process goes well beyond this life as well of growing and becoming what I believe. We are meant to be and remembering who we really are. So we're more than our current circumstances. Be very careful about what we focus on.

Be very intentional and surround ourselves with supportive people to help us move forward.

Damaged Parents: [00:48:38] I am really lucky that I got to have you here and that you were able to share your wisdom today.

Jennifer Kwan: [00:48:43] Thank you so much. This has been really fun.

Damaged Parents: [00:48:45] Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Relatively Damaged by Damaged Parents. We really enjoy talking to Jennifer about how she escaped an unhealthy marriage and learn to be true to her values. We especially liked when she explained how to find safe people. And what that might look like for you.

To connect with other damaged people, connect with us on Facebook. Look for damaged parents. We'll be here next week. Still relatively damaged. See you then.