S2E53 - Stop Calling Me Resilient

My name is Alison Gomez and I am a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. More specifically a group therapist. I'm also a passionate person with anti-oppression work, creativity, and healing. I own a Telehealth practice in California focusing on high achieving women of color struggling with high expectations and dark thoughts.

Social media and contact information:

IG: @alisongomezlmft
TikTok: @alisongomezlmft
www.alisongomezmft.com

Podcast Transcript

[00:00:00] Damaged Parents: Welcome back to the Relatively Damaged Podcast by Damaged Parents were emotionally abused, neglected students of psychology types of people come to learn, maybe just, maybe we're all a little bit damaged. Someone once told me it's safe to assume 50% of the people I meet are struggling and feel wounded in some way.

I would venture to say it's closer to 100%. Every one of us is either currently struggling or has struggled with something that made us feel less than. Like we aren't good enough. We aren't capable. We are relatively damaged. And that's what we're here to talk about. In my ongoing investigation of the damaged self, I want to better understand how others view their own challenges. Maybe it's not so much about the damage, maybe it's about our perception and how we deal with it.

There is a deep commitment to becoming who we are meant to be. How do you do that? How do you find balance after a damaging experience? My hero is the damaged person. The one who faces seemingly insurmountable odds to come out on the other side, whole. Those who stare directly into the face of adversity with unyielding persistence to discover their purpose.

These are the people who inspire me to be more fully me. Not in spite of my trials. But because of them. Let's hear from another hero.

Today's topic includes sensitive material, which may not be appropriate for children. This podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended as advice. The opinions expressed here were strictly those of the person who gave them.

Today, we're going to talk with Alison Gomez. She has many roles in her life. Mother daughter, sister, spouse, and more. We'll talk about how she's recovering from graduate school abuse and how she's finding health and healing let's talk

 Welcome back to Relatively Damaged by Damaged Parents. Today, we have Alison Gomez with us. She has a licensed marriage and family therapist. More specifically, a group therapist. She's a passionate person with anti-oppression work creativity. And healing. I mean, she does everything I'm telling you guys.

She also owns a telehealth practice in California, focusing on high achieving women of color, struggling with high expectations and dark thoughts. You can find her at https://AlisonGomezMFT.com Alison welcome to the show.

[00:02:32] Alison Gomez: Thank you for having me here. I'm excited.

[00:02:35] Damaged Parents: I know, like I'd love to say you're excited about talking about crappy things that happened to us in the past and how we found health, and hope and healing and all that good stuff.

[00:02:45] Alison Gomez: I mean, I am kind of a dark and twisty person. That's why I like working with people who have dark thoughts. I was like, yeah, let's make space for this.

[00:02:54] Damaged Parents: I love that. You said let's make space for this because I think a lot of times. We forget like those tough feelings. It's hard to say, oh, I'm going to give room to anger. I'm going to give room to frustration or sadness. All those disregulating emotions, I think. Right.

[00:03:16] Alison Gomez: And I wouldn't even say dysregulating emotions. We usually dysregulate because of how much like shame and guilt that are associated with it. Like these are our bad emotions and we shouldn't be having them and therefore, then it kind of spirals instead of just having the emotion in it of itself.

[00:03:32] Damaged Parents: Okay. So I think what I hear you saying then is that anger, sadness, whatever frustration, maybe they're not so disregulating as the shame and guilt we attach to the.

[00:03:43] Alison Gomez: Yeah.

Like, because then we'll have a feeling and then it'll might lead to certain thoughts of like, I shouldn't be feeling this way and I need to shut it down. And why am I not shutting it down? And it just kind of spirals and spirals. So the way I think about it, it's like when you get a cut. depending on how you treat the cut, it might feel better, faster.

Like if you're like trying to throw dirt into it or like salt on it, it's gonna hurt more. Like you're going to make something that already hurts, feel a hundred times worse. And I'm not saying that people do this on purpose. It just kind of happened.

[00:04:12] Damaged Parents: Yeah.

[00:04:13] Alison Gomez: But we tend to add more fuel to the flame and make it more excruciating because we're just not taught the skills on how to cope with these feelings.

Because a lot of times people are just like, we need to and I'm thinking like parents, Hey, I see you're crying. I'll give you something to cry about. There's nothing to cry about. I'll give you something like you're not justified to have that. Then you're not allowed to feel angry. You're not allowed to feel disappointed.

You're not allowed to feel all these heavy things.

[00:04:37] Damaged Parents: Wow, I've been thinking most recently loving those feelings and when I love it, then it's not the same. And I think you're kind of saying the same and I don't mean love it as in love that you're angry, but loving and making it okay for it to exist. I mean, are you, is that what you're trying to say?

[00:04:59] Alison Gomez: Yeah. I mean, and I would say appreciating all these emotions because they're all telling you things, we wouldn't have changed in the world without anger, anger lets us know that something's going on. That we don't like. And sometimes there are things that we can't change like death, but even that. Usually anger.

It can be filled more accepting than like the sadness of grief. I mean, it's all data, it's all data without getting angry. You wouldn't even have boundaries because you don't know, you even need a boundary until someone steps on it. And you feel that like resentment and bitterness, they're like, Ooh, I didn't like that.

Oh, a boundary needs to be here, kind of. And then they put a boundary and then you don't have to, then you minimize that or shame or guilt when used appropriately. but like, we want you to feel guilty when you actually have caused harm, but not to like continuously flog yourself for all eternity.

Just more like, okay, let me just not do that again.

[00:05:50] Damaged Parents: Right. Which would be that deeper. Well, I don't know. I hate to use a very spiritual word, but like that deeper repentance, going deeper than just what happened.

[00:06:02] Alison Gomez: Yeah. I mean, it doesn't have to say anything about you as a person. We all make mistakes. And, but if we're able to appreciate the guilt of, oh, I really didn't like how I felt like when I did that, because I saw that it hurt you. Okay. I'm going to be more proactive in not doing that again, versus like how most of us use it I'm a horrible person. I'm a horrible person. I'm a horrible person, you know, and you can just like eat these other narratives. That aren't actually true. It's like, if you just used it in that moment to not do it again, that's kind of like the point.

[00:06:31] Damaged Parents: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Okay. Now we can totally get into this, but I don't want to keep talking and forget to get into your struggle because you actually came here with a pretty big struggle and. I was super surprised that it came out of school for you because of the environment of getting your Ms in counseling.

Right.

[00:06:54] Alison Gomez: Yes.

[00:06:55] Damaged Parents: So tell us about that.

[00:06:56] Alison Gomez: So I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist. And in order to get that. License, you have to get a master's degree and like some kind of counseling psychology. It doesn't necessarily have to be that, but I applied to my counseling psychology program and. I have learned a lot about myself and just kind of about the field.

So backstory, I used to do stuff in mental health in general. I was a recovery specialist, So I did case management related stuff. I used to work on the crisis hotlines and help people regulate. And it was really meaningful work, but I saw how toxic. it was, but I just kinda thought like, well, maybe this place is toxic.

[00:07:31] Damaged Parents: Wait so toxic. Let me clarify, toxic working in like the call centers toxic. Like when I'm hearing that I'm wondering, you mean toxicity is what, as in the phone calls coming in are toxic as in like the types of people you were working with.

[00:07:46] Alison Gomez: The work environment,

[00:07:48] Damaged Parents: Oh, okay.

[00:07:49] Alison Gomez: work environment. So you think like working in a mental health field, we would prioritize mental health, but that's not normally the case. so, you know, it's about productivity. It's about. There's a lot of politics, not stepping on toes and I'm neuordivergent And I didn't know that at the time, it like makes way more sense now.

Like, oh, okay. I didn't get these cues because duh. But Yeah.

if you step on toes, they can make your life really, really hard. I'm very literal people tell me, like, don't, if you can't do something, let me know. I'm like, okay, well I can't do this. How dare you? But that was the rule. Like I don't understand.

And but I thought that was specific to this very specific environment and not necessarily mental health And so like to this graduate school program, because I've always been passionate about mental health. I'm like I'm going to meet these people and they're going to be amazed that this is going to be an amazing experience.

I'm passionate about this and they must be passionate too. It turns out that is not the case either. And so I was a pretty good student. Like I got the good grades. and I felt really confident in my clinical abilities, just because of my time working at the hotline.

Like I'm really big on validation. I'm really big on, I don't want to problem solve with you until you're ready to problem solve, because then you get a lot of resistance because that's what I need. I like validation. And I don't like people trying to fix things when there's not, I don't need that yet.

Like, I'll ask for your help on fixing things when I need it,

[00:09:10] Damaged Parents: well unusually. I think a lot of people I would think are they let us know when they're ready. Yes and no. Maybe. I don't

[00:09:17] Alison Gomez: and no. Like most people don't know what they want, but they know.

what they don't want because you'll get the yeah buts

they may not be able to verbally say, Hey, I need you to sit here and listen to me and validate this experience. But you know, if you're talking to someone and they're like, Hey, well, why don't you try that?

Well, I could, but, but you know,

And so we, I mean, we even had a term for that, that I learned in my grad program, like yeah. Butters. And I've always felt like, kind of protected of that. Like I remember from the very beginning of the program, there was kind of this judgment from the professors, but it was very easy to kind of just ignore it.

The professors like there, they have their doctorates and no clinical psychology managing family therapy, and so who am I to like question them? So I didn't, but I like looking back, I can see the red flags from even like day one with this lack of respect towards clients and lack of respect towards students.

So during our second, my program was a three-year program. So the first year it's just primarily just like learning the basics of communication. How do you show empathy? How do you like very, very basic like therapy intervention skills. Second year, you have to work in the university clinic for about 40 hours, 40 clinical hours.

Then clients one-on-one , and they would like, they had clinic managers who would give you clients. And so your job was to like, once you were assigned a client, you would call them and schedule an appointment. And then go see them. And I had a really big problem. Because I would call clients and they wouldn't come.

And I didn't internalize that. It's like anything bad on my part, because I used to work with mental health. Like my client actively dodged us, like, as case managers, we were responsible for bringing the clients into their, like their doctor's appointments. And if they didn't show up, it was our fault.

Regardless. you know, I show up to their home and they wouldn't be there and yet it was my fault. So I knew like, Hmm, that's not Right.

And I'm not taking responsibility for that. And a lot of people, when they're new to therapy, they may not always be committed to it. because they are, that can be pretty intimidating.

Like what, I'm going to talk to the strangers about my deepest, darkest feelings. Like, I don't know if I want to do that. Like I want to do that, but I'm not sure if I'm completely ready to commit, so I didn't take it like offensively, but at the end I still needed my 40 hours.

[00:11:32] Damaged Parents: Right.

[00:11:33] Alison Gomez: And they've been really empathetic to that for like up until a certain point. One of the things I was really firm about, and I learned this while working with community mental health was boundaries. I don't keep personal information about my clients in my personal phone

[00:11:47] Damaged Parents: right. That will make sense.

[00:11:48] Alison Gomez: Yeah.

Well, so at the clinic, when the clinics close, I can't access the chart room, for privacy reasons.

So if I wanted to call a client on a day that the clinic wasn't open, there was no way for me, unless I memorized the number or put it in my phone because it wasn't like a clinic phone that you can like save this information too. So I remember one time, like my professor's oh, well, why don't you call the client on a Friday?

Oh, well the clinic is closed, so I don't have access to their number. And like, we'll put it in your phone. I don't want to,

[00:12:18] Damaged Parents: Yeah.

[00:12:18] Alison Gomez: know, like I, my spouse goes through my phone, not in the, like I'm controlling, like who let's look at what you're doing, and sometimes his phone is closer than my phone so that I'm going to look up stuff on his phone, or vice versa.

I have, nieces and nephews, they have access to my phone to play games. So like it's not a secure thing. I explained that and it, in this group supervision, because when you're learning, you have to have groups like either individual supervision with the clinical supervisor so they can guide you.

Oh, you do it in a group setting. So in this group setting where all these people are watching, the professor said like pretty much said that I was in an abusive relationship and I needed group like couples counseling, because I didn't want to put a client's phone number in. And then after the group supervision ended ,the group supervisor told me if you can't get this client to come in, I'm not giving you any more clients so you know

I'm not going to give you any more clients. Mind you, I think I had like two hours at this point and I needed 40. you know, So I'm thinking out, and whatnot, so you know, I write the phone number down and I hide it in my little cubby. Cause I refuse to put it in my phone. Like this is, it's just, it doesn't feel like I just refuse,

[00:13:24] Damaged Parents: Yeah. And confidentiality scene is really important to you. It sounds like

[00:13:28] Alison Gomez: Well, I mean, it's the

cornerstone perfection, I mean,

[00:13:32] Damaged Parents: yeah.

[00:13:32] Alison Gomez: and so I'm so United get called. I thought everything was going to Snoop over, but it never did. So I started having problems, keeping clients either their schedule didn't align with mine. Like the only time they could see me was when I was in class and they're not going to let me not go to class.

So obviously I couldn't see them or, they didn't have access to reliable transportation to come and see me or they weren't ready because, , like we discussed, but they would blame me for these clients who just didn't come in at all.

[00:14:02] Damaged Parents: Oh, yes, because you have told I'm being sarcastic here.

[00:14:05] Alison Gomez: Right.

[00:14:06] Damaged Parents: We know, Alison knows I cannot control her and I know she cannot control me. I have the ability to say no.

[00:14:13] Alison Gomez: Exactly. and then became a really big deal. So I was getting behind in my papers because it required me seeing clients and I just wasn't getting clients. And at the same time, , they're like, , do you not know how to make a phone call? Do we need to sit with you to like make these phone calls so we can see what you're doing wrong?

And it turns into this huge thing where, professors are misleading me on reasons why we're meeting as a group. And, you just don't have enough clinical hours to write these papers, but more like, Ooh, maybe you just don't know how to be a therapist, and so they started questioning that and they're trying to be supportive by giving me additional supervision, but it really didn't feel supportive. It felt like I was doing everything wrong when I literally wasn't doing anything. And then when I finally did start seeing clients. I had like the weight of all the things I was supposed to do.

So I wasn't even able to be present with the client. Like with this particular client, I was like, thank goodness They were like, they just needed to talk to, I was just like, ' cause like, I wasn't really present. And then it's like, but then they would use things like that against me, like, oh, Alison, I seen your stress, maybe you shouldn't be a therapist because you know, but they're also putting a lot of stress.

You know, And I'm starting to get more upset because it feels like , I trusted them and I'm, doing the things they're asking me to do because I'm a good student.

I'm a good student. I thrive on like professors approval, so I'm trying to please them, but nothing is happening.

So then I, but I'm also a fighter. Like I'm an advocate, which is awesome. And also not depending on the setting. So it's like, well, I knew this was really messed up. So I went and advocated for myself. Like I can't get better as a therapist if I'm not seeing clients. So I'm going to ask for more clients.

So I get this ombudsman involved and he just makes us a million times worse. He doesn't know anything about therapy, And so he's also kind of like siding with the professors, like well. Maybe there's some truth to this, and so I would leave hyperventilating and I just looked, I felt like I was just going crazy and people are like, well, of course this is going to happen because you're pissing these professors off.

And then,

it resulted in me walking down the hall one day and one of my professors just kind of grabbed me. He's like, Oh,

Alison, can you just chat with me for a minute? Sure. And she gets another calls, the other professor to come in and. They're like, by the way, we're just not going to have you graduate on time.

You're going to have to stay in the clinic for an extra year. Yeah.

[00:16:34] Damaged Parents: And what's interesting is you are reminding me when you're talking about like the supervisors and the ombudsman. The, not the, is it the Stanley Milgram's study with the, with the shocking, right? That just because they're the ones with the degree means that. They know what they're talking about.

So it's just like, you get to keep going. It just for that simple reason, because they've got the degree, it's the hierarchy.

[00:17:02] Alison Gomez: As I say it is their job to gate, keep the profession to protect the community and me and clients and whatever. Which is true. There needs to be some gatekeeping, but we also forget that most of the gatekeepers for these fields are white people and I am not white.

[00:17:21] Damaged Parents: Oh,

[00:17:21] Alison Gomez: And, so I mean, and I didn't think racism was involved in any way because we had a lot of Hispanic people in our program.

So I was like, well, they don't do That to them. So what, why me?

[00:17:31] Damaged Parents: Yeah.

[00:17:32] Alison Gomez: But there were other people who were struggling in class and they got time. After time we're given support. There were people who actively denied white privilege because they felt like they forfeited it by hanging out with people of color.

And yet they weren't deemed a threat to society, but me and telling a professor, no, I don't want to put a client's phone number in my phone,

[00:17:52] Damaged Parents: But you, I think all in all, knowing what I know, I'm grateful you didn't put their phone number in your phone because that's a privacy vibe. That's a isn't that HIPAA violation

[00:18:02] Alison Gomez: well, no, it is part of HIPAA, but also like, I think, cause I remember looking this up specifically, like, am I cause you know, like, can I go in crazy? I don't like the specific organizations you have to do. Like things vary. But if you're in a private practice setting, there's a little bit more, it can be looser.

[00:18:18] Damaged Parents: Hmm.

[00:18:19] Alison Gomez: personally, I just don't like clients' information on my phone. So I have a separate from like me as in private practice. Now I have a whole separate phone

[00:18:26] Damaged Parents: Yeah.

[00:18:27] Alison Gomez: and it is a way, and nobody else's uses it. It's just, It's my phone. Just for therapy related stuff.

[00:18:35] Damaged Parents: and it's secured. It

sounds like. So now they pull you aside. They tell you this. I mean, I would have been freaking out right then. With all that work. what did you do? I can't wait to hear the rest of the story because this is just got me on the edge of my seat.

[00:18:51] Alison Gomez: well, And I'm like, I like, I quit. Like I quit, like I don't want to do, but I don't, I wasn't actually going to quit. I was already two years into this three-year program. I already finished half of what was needed. But there was a lot of pain. I mean, it was a very painful, I cried so much. I was so isolated from my cohort because it was, I mean, it's a cohort system. I was so isolated. Yeah. It was just lonely and painful and it questioned it because my identity is one I've always felt like I was meant to be a therapist or like that, that's what I was like, this is what I'm really good at. I get really insecure all these other areas of my life, but this is the one thing I have no questions about.

Like I know how to do, and they're telling me I don't, and I'm a good student and they're telling me I'm not. So it's like this whole crisis, I mean, and I think that if I have like some pretty supportive friends and like a really good therapist to like keep me, like, I think, cause I wasn't okay.

Even with them. I wasn't. Okay. But at least I was more okay.

[00:19:53] Damaged Parents: Yeah. And just real quick in that dynamic, did you also lose the supportive classmates to,

[00:19:58] Alison Gomez: The way I describe my classmates, they never threw me under the bus, but they definitely let the bus run over me.

[00:20:03] Damaged Parents: so not really feeling safe and supported then either?

Not that they could.

[00:20:08] Alison Gomez: they weren't going to actively do anything to hurt me, but I remember one person saying what difference does a year make?

[00:20:14] Damaged Parents: Hmm.

[00:20:15] Alison Gomez: So they didn't, a lot of them didn't get it. Some of them did pull me aside and like, could validate. The struggle, but a lot of them didn't really get it. And so I kind of stopped trying to please them,

[00:20:28] Damaged Parents: The students or the faculty

or both. Okay,

[00:20:31] Alison Gomez: Yeah.

Just kind of like, what can I do to survive this abusive situation and mind you, I also want to point out.

Okay. So.

I told you in our clinic, you have to get 40 hours to. Upgrade, whatever to move on to the next part of your training. I was short four hours by the end of my second year,

And yet they still wouldn't let me continue because I'm a danger to society.

[00:20:53] Damaged Parents: Because you were short for four hours.

[00:20:55] Alison Gomez: No, they just told me I couldn't.

They just said that I wasn't allowed to like continue on, but I was short four hours so the assumption is that my, the additional year was going to be me in the clinic, but nobody actually tells me what we need to do to make sure I'm safe or caught up.

[00:21:11] Damaged Parents: Mm.

[00:21:12] Alison Gomez: so like in my third year we ended up, it was incredibly embarrassing.

They having to retake like the basic communication class with people who are a year, one I'm year three, and I'm with year one, people learning how to like, reflect. But with no real clear guidance on what is it that you're actually wanting me to learn. I think they did it to embarrass me.

And then once I got the four hours, they kicked me out of the clinic anyway.

[00:21:35] Damaged Parents: So you were able in year three to finish up the four hours.

[00:21:38] Alison Gomez: oh yeah, like within a couple of months.

[00:21:41] Damaged Parents: Okay. So you ultimately were able to go on to your three without a break.

[00:21:45] Alison Gomez: No cause my three-year program was for,

[00:21:48] Damaged Parents: Oh,

[00:21:49] Alison Gomez: but I got kicked out of the clinic, but the way I got kicked out of the clinic was they just didn't. When you go for group supervision with us, they would just put your name under which group supervisor you were even, see, and my name wasn't on the board.

That's how I found out. I was no longer in the clinic. No one actually told me they just,

they just didn't include my name. And so when I followed up saying, Hey, I got a new client who we're just starting to build rapport and I don't think this should be happening. They're like, okay.

well just transfer them to somebody else.

Again, they're telling me that I'm a horrible therapist and I need more practice in time, but then I'm also out not doing therapy for like nine months before going into my traineeship.

[00:22:27] Damaged Parents: Great. And then, but so you're telling me you actually had a client. That you were actively working with that you were just building rapport with and they said that's too bad. Transfer them. That is so hard on the client. Isn't it?

[00:22:40] Alison Gomez: It's horrible. I mean, it?

is absolutely horrible. I knew they were just being petty at that point, because if you're gonna, if you just gave me a new client, Who's engaging in high risk behaviors, then why are you going, gonna make me, like, why give them to me if you didn't have the intention on me working with them beyond, I don't know, four or five sessions

[00:23:00] Damaged Parents: Yeah. And they would just be gaining trust. I would think at that point, if you're, what, if you're seeing them weekly, maybe more.

[00:23:08] Alison Gomez: Yeah.

so then I had this whole year off where I didn't really do anything. I couldn't connect with my cohort because they're doing all these meetings and things. I would still email saying, Hey, I want to do like your therapy. Cause I was always interested in group therapy. I did like a group coping skills.

Kind of like a psychoeducational thing when I was at the hotline and I just wanted it, like I was geeking out on the healing properties of group therapy and, but they were, would email me back saying, well, you can't even do individual. What makes you think you can do group?

[00:23:36] Damaged Parents: Wait okay. I think I've lost a little bit. So you were in for two years, you couldn't finish so then you were offered a year

[00:23:43] Alison Gomez: I was off out of the clinic for year

[00:23:45] Damaged Parents: out of the clinic for a year. Okay. Okay.

That's where I think I lost you,

[00:23:50] Alison Gomez: I was taking classes, but I wasn't able to actually practice with anyone, which, they were saying you need to because you suck, but now we're not going to let you, because we don't want you, to. And then our last year. So for most people died the year three, mine was year four.

You would do this community training ship where you're going to see about, get 150 hours working at some site. And they sent me to this one site with a supervisor who was known for actively trying to get out of supervision with you. And you have to have supervision in order for your hours to count.

So like if they have to sign off on those hours, but my person wouldn't even act like wouldn't even show up or answer my questions. Like I actually, most of my supervision during that time, even when I was in the clinic was with my own therapist. I'm like, Hey, I don't know how to do a treatment plan. And my clinical supervisor, like, of course you don't like making fun of me and the group or, the other one not showing up.

So I would have to ask my therapist like, Hey, how do you do this? Because I don't know. I don't know how to terminate with a client. I don't like, I don't know how to do these things. Because they weren't guiding me or they would, and even in my training ship, they did really unethical things. Like they would punish clients that they were, if they disclosed that they were using substances they would Yeah.

they would kick clients out of the program.

It was really kind of sad. And then they would make fun of them at the group supervisions. But I couldn't say anything because if I did, like, I just needed to get out of this program. Like I can't stay at fifth year because what, so it was really hard. And eventually that supervisor left and this other supervisor came in and she was absolutely amazing.

Like, oh my God, she showed up. She's like, well, you guys had expectations are pretty low. Cause there were like, she showed up on time it's like a way that makes you happy. Like, wow, that's really sad. But that was the culture. Like all these places were just so toxic and it was very much about power over your clients.

Like, I need you to do the thing that I want you to do. Like even in community mental health, it felt like it was a lot of having power over the clients and meet, I don't want to boss my clients around. I want to guide them. I want us to collaborate, but. I don't want to be their boss

[00:25:56] Damaged Parents: Well, isn't it up to the client if they heal.

[00:25:59] Alison Gomez: theory.

[00:25:59] Damaged Parents: like it would make, that would make sense to me but it just is amazing, I think, and easy to forget that when we'd go to a clinician, whether it's a therapist of doctor, any, any type of clinic that we're dealing with more humans

[00:26:16] Alison Gomez: Yes.

[00:26:17] Damaged Parents: and in sometimes these humans get God complex.

[00:26:22] Alison Gomez: Oh, goodness. I mean, oh yeah, it's really kind of awful. I remember people making fun of like, we would watch group therapies, as a class. So we would have the one-way mirrors and we would watch, and the professors or students would make really negative comments, which there's a thing called countertransference.

So like when things like your clients, clients bring up things in you, that's just a thing. Like, and I mean, it's not Just even in the therapy world. People bring up stuff from your own stuff.

[00:26:52] Damaged Parents: Just in relationship. I think period, somebody else will trigger something inside of me.

[00:26:58] Alison Gomez: Exactly. It's just a thing, but in therapy, we call it countertransference. Your client's doing something and you have this reaction and sometimes that can have transference can be really good information on, oh, we wonder if they're making other people feel this way. Okay. Maybe I can use this feeling and we can use that in this setting to work through it.

Or maybe it's just bringing up my own stuff and it has nothing to do with the client. And I should not bring it into the room because that is not their problem. It's a thing. Not a big deal. So sometimes, I remember people being like, talking about the kind it's well, that bitch and and it's like, okay, you don't get to call the client that, but let's explore that.

What, was going on for you to get that angry, to want to call your client a name? Like not judging you, it's just what's going on because the more awareness you have, the more you can control it and be a better clinician. But they didn't stop you and question you on things like that. They just kind of let it go.

so it was just okay to trash talk your clients when you're frustrated. And it's like, ah, no, this is good clinical material. Like for us to like work there as clinicians, that will make us better, but we don't. Our reactions kind of are we're allowed to just be true. How does that not impact the client?

And it was so frustrating and see that, but again, I can't say anything because I'm already in deep water for just saying, Hey, I don't want to put a client's phone number in my phone. Like I wasn't allowed to do stuff.

My words didn't matter.

[00:28:17] Damaged Parents: That's gotta be like, I can only imagine sitting in that how devastating that would feel and just that, that desperation of how am I going to do this? And can I even do this in this environment?

[00:28:29] Alison Gomez: Yeah. I mean, it was pretty devastating. And then I left that program and went to more devastating place. Like eventually I ended up graduating. and I still don't feel like I'm happy that I graduated, but I don't, like, I don't have my degree put up in a pretty frame because I don't really feel that much pride.

It's just kind of like. It's like a sign of my resilience, but I'm so fucking tired of people telling me I'm resilient. Like it was exhausting. It was exhausting. I felt like I was boxing all the time, but there were no breaks in between to just like breathe. I would walk, I would go onto campus crying, like.

Hyperventilating. And then I had to keep reminding myself, Well,

at least I'm physically safe. I can't say I'm emotionally safe. I mean, I still have scars from it. So like when there's moments of vulnerability, I feel sometimes think, oh, is it because I'm really this danger to society? And it's like, huh, man.

I thought I worked on you. I guess they're still going to have to like, do more healing around that, But it was just super toxic. It was toxic and it led to more toxicity. And I can see why, like the mental health field is really messed up.

[00:29:32] Damaged Parents: What would you do? Or how could you see fixing it? Not fixing it, but maybe what are some checks and balances that could be put into place that might help.

[00:29:41] Alison Gomez: I don't think there's anything that can be done to fix it. I feel like, because everyone's like in this position of power who is like white and straight able-bodied. We come from it from this very pathologizing view. And I think I want to heal people from this very humanizing view. I don't think , from my years of experience with mental health, to me, it always makes sense.

Like, well, duh, of course you're depressed. You have like this kind of upbringing and this was the lack of support that you had. Like this, these were horrible things that people told you. Of course, you're going to internalize that. I mean, it doesn't make you like in my brain it doesn't make you sick.

It just means. How do you not internalize toxicity when that is just your world? So if we can like help.

pick those things out, then you're going to feel better. Like it, to me, it doesn't feel like a disease.

[00:30:29] Damaged Parents: Yeah. So it sounds like more of a compassionate perspective. Can we bring compassion into those environments and, Ooh, that's, that is hard, especially if it's already, I don't know.

[00:30:42] Alison Gomez: I think, and not seeing that there aren't like actual illnesses that are like schizophrenia. You're going to treat that one a lot different than , maybe like situational depression. but even then I'm not an expert on schizophrenia. So someone who has way more experience with trauma and stuff, it's specifically in that area.

Maybe they have more to say, but It's important, but also, I don't know. I just don't like pathologize and things. I don't feel like a pathology to me. Like it might be causing trouble in your life, but it doesn't mean that there's something wrong with you that you need fixing. It means there's a space that needs to heal because you had to do all these things to keep yourself alive.

It's kind of like learn the fly-ins and it's like the Lord of the flies in your body.

[00:31:22] Damaged Parents: Yeah. Well, and it sounds like a lot of what you're saying is you are not wrong. You just had some trouble.

[00:31:28] Alison Gomez: Yeah.

[00:31:29] Damaged Parents: And for a lot of things that need to get worked through. And I would think even with schizophrenia and, borderline and bipolar and, depending on the level of psychosis and things like that, I would think that coming from a position of love would be very much more beneficial than coming from a place of pathologizing.

Everything.

[00:31:48] Alison Gomez: Well, wait, that's how I like to practice. And that's more aligned with me and they feel like the field of psychology isn't that if you want to see a therapist with your insurance, you have to get a diagnosis.

[00:31:59] Damaged Parents: Right.

[00:31:59] Alison Gomez: Most of my people are private pay, so I don't have to give you a diagnosis.

I might only give some other like B codes or whatever. Like the more like situational things. I don't have to give a diagnosis because sometimes it's not really necessary, but for insurance, you have to get a diagnosis almost like within the first session, the first one or two sessions, otherwise they're not going to Dean at medically necessity.

And like, it's not medically necessary for you to see them, so we're not going to pay.

[00:32:24] Damaged Parents: So it's almost like you have to pathologize a person so that you can help them, but is maybe, is there a way to separate that I'm wondering.

[00:32:35] Alison Gomez: And I'm just, I just wish that we can just have our own like different, like, okay, I see you like the BBS ICU, APA. I see all of you and we're going to form our own thing over here. So like, it's going to be like focus more on late decolonizing and addressing those isms that are inherent in us because we are, and we live in white supremacy and the patriarchy and ableism.

All of those things, like we're going to actively work on that instead of getting defensive about it. So when we show up in the room, I mean, that's up, we're not going to be like, how dare you have tears, tears, or like, or add more trauma because a lot of trauma happens in therapy too.

When your therapist doesn't understand your identity and they feel like they can say really harmful things. I looked back and was like, oh, I see those isms that I really wish I didn't do that. Like, how do you like take accountability in the room? So when a mistake happens, you can provide this healing experience instead of shaming your client or gaslighting them.

 Ideally I would just make a whole new profession, like healing profession. That's not necessarily based on this Western version of healing.

[00:33:36] Damaged Parents: Yeah. Oh, that's fascinating. Okay. What would be the top three tools or tips if someone is in the same situation you were in, what would you say do this first, do these three things or try these three things, because we're not going to tell them what they need to do.

[00:33:54] Alison Gomez: yes. So like, I'm thinking about the three things I wish I could have done. I wish I could have got somebody else involved in those meetings. Not the ombudsman, but , I don't know if there's lawyers or other people who can like, advocates who can say, Hey, that's not okay. But I wish there was somebody else who could have been there to support.

So if you get somebody involved in those meetings and make sure they're taking notes too, so it's. The professors don't have all the power. I mean, you are paying for your education. This is a service to you. So you do.

have the right to advocate for yourself. So that would be my one thing to just all the support that you can get, really.

Like if you can't leave this situation, all the support that you can get, because it is exhausting and it hurts and whatnot. Friends family, like in people who aren't going to get tired of you talking about it. I definitely felt like I was overwhelming my friends, making sure you have a therapist who understands or a coach or whoever of choice, healer of choice that understands.

So you can again get that support. It's hard. And I guess like my third one be like, be compassionate with yourself when you feel like you're falling apart, it's hard to feel good about yourself when you're actively being abused.

[00:35:04] Damaged Parents: Hmm, isn't that the truth? What it, what a great ending. I really think that's important to end on, that it is hard to be compassionate with yourself, when you're currently being abused emotionally or otherwise,

[00:35:17] Alison Gomez: Yeah. I mean, we internalize it. If other people are treating you poorly, why do you think that , you should be treated differently so like be as compassionate as you can, because they're going to feel awful. 'cause nobody likes getting hurt.

[00:35:29] Damaged Parents: Yeah. Yeah. Well, everyone, this was Alison Gomez, M F T you can find her at Alison one L so A L I S O N G O N E. M F T.com is where you can find her. Thank you so much, Alison, for coming on the show.

[00:35:48] Alison Gomez: Thank you for having me.

[00:35:50] Damaged Parents: Thank you for listening to this week's episode of relatively damaged by damaged parents. We really enjoy talking to Alison about how she was able to recognize the abuse in graduate school. And find tools to cope. We especially liked when she found a way to be successful in is bringing light to the problem.

To unite with other damaged people, connect with us on Instagram. Look for damaged parents. We'll be here next week still relatively damaged see you then