S2E40: You Gotta Go Far to Go Far - Overcoming PTSD as a Veteran

Tony Lugo is an award winning filmmaker of short form narrative, documentaries, and music videos. His current award winning film, Midnight, is making it's rounds on the festival circuit. He began his artistic career as an award nominated production designer, and honed his skills in cinematography and editing, before fully pursuing his directing career.

In search of adventure and a challenge, Tony joined the United States Marine Corps and traveled abroad to Cuba, Greece, and Ireland.

After his service, Tony pursued his passion in the creative arts and started writing screenplays and making films. He was twice selected as a Latino scholar by the National Association of Latino Independent Producers (NALIP), an organization that supports emerging Latino filmmakers.

Tony was also selected as a Leadership Fellow for the non-profit Veterans in Media & Entertainment (VME) in recognition of his leadership and volunteerism.

Social media and contact information:

ig - @_lugotron
Twitter - @lugotron
TikTok - @lugotr0n
www.lugotron.com

Podcast Transcript

[00:00:00] Damaged Parents: Welcome back to the Relatively Damaged Podcast by Damaged Parents were scared. Courageous military type people come to learn. Maybe just, maybe we're all a little bit damaged. Someone once told me it's safe to assume 50% of the people I meet are struggling and feel wounded in some way. I would venture to say it's closer to 100%.

Every one of us is either currently struggling or has struggled with something that made us feel less than. Like we aren't good enough. We aren't capable. We are relatively damaged. And that's what we're here to talk about. In my ongoing investigation of the damaged self, I want to better understand how others view their own challenges.

Maybe it's not so much about the damage, maybe it's about our perception and how we deal with it. There is a deep commitment to becoming who you're meant to be. How do you do that? How do you find balance after a damaging experience? My hero is a damaged person. The one who faces seemingly insurmountable odds to come out on the other side home.

Those who stare directly into the face of adversity with unyielding persistence to discover their purpose. These are the people who inspire me to be more fully me, not in spite of my trials, but because of them. Let's hear from another hero.

Today's topic includes sensitive material, which may not be appropriate for children. This podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended as advice. The opinions expressed here are strictly those of the person who gave them.

Today, we're going to talk with Tony Lugo. He has many roles in his life veterans son, brother, uncle, and more. We'll talk about how he came back from serving in the military with severe ptsd and how he found health and healing let's talk

 Welcome back to Relatively Damaged by Damaged Parents. Today, we have Tony Lugo with us. He is an award-winning filmmaker of short film narrative. Documentaries and music videos, his current award winning film midnight is making its rounds on the festival circuit.

He began his artistic career as an award nominated production designer and honed his skills in cinematography and editing before fully pursuing his directing career. You can find Tony on Instagram @_lugotron, or he's on Twitter and Tik TOK @lugotron, or you can find him simply online https://lugotron.com.

Tony, welcome to the show.

[00:02:39] Tony Lugo: Thanks for having me. It's a interesting hearing that stuff said, you're in a back.

[00:02:45] Damaged Parents: Okay. I mean, you're here to talk about a struggle and you know, I think there's this idea when we see people that are perceived as successful. I mean, do you think of yourself as successful at this point in time?

[00:02:58] Tony Lugo: I think if you were to ask. Myself from 10 years ago, he would say yes, but I, feel like the industry I'm in constantly, it makes you feel like you have to keep pushing forward, but I, I would say short answer. Yes. Yes.

[00:03:12] Damaged Parents: you've also had some struggles though. And so do you think those struggles have helped you feel like you can be successful and that you are successful? Or were they maybe hindering block?

[00:03:25] Tony Lugo: Uh, When I was going through them It was, definitely a hindering, but I think the tools that I learned to get through them helped me to this day, even in, day-to-day life, whether it's in my career or whether it's, Backing into a parking spot at the grocery store.

I suffered from a lot of anxiety. So, I mentioned that because one of the, one of the things I had to do was exposure therapy. And one of the things was backing into a parking spot when people are waiting on you and their cars and getting impatient.

[00:03:56] Damaged Parents: Oh wow. Okay. So tell us about this exposure therapy. One of them was backing into a parking spot while people are waiting. Did you do other things too, or like, and what happened inside of you? Actually, let me go back to this question first. What happened inside of you when that anxiety came on?

[00:04:15] Tony Lugo: Oh, I w it was crippling. It was, I was so timid. I wouldn't talk to people. I wouldn't, if I went to a networking event, I'd be the one person who left without. Introducing myself to people that they didn't introduce themselves to me. you know, You worry about little mundane things that you shouldn't worry about.

As the person behind me in line upset at me, because I have. 11 things and the express checkout aisle just little things like that. Exposure therapy was, I'm sorry. Exposure therapy was that it was frightening at first, but it really, really, really got it really helped, it was incredibly helpful.

It, got me out of a bubble. it put me into the world.

[00:04:56] Damaged Parents: put you into a world.

Can you explain that statement right there?

[00:05:01] Tony Lugo: Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, one of the things, it was, something as mundane as backing into a parking spot when there are like two or three cars waiting to go by you, before that you would just want.

A quick spot or you don't want to feel like you're inconveniencing other people, you kind of, let go of, your stealth To appease the world around you so that you don't make anybody angry or, you don't want to ruffle any feathers or anything like that. and it's crippling because you don't do anything you feel you want to do.

[00:05:34] Damaged Parents: Mm. So was it more like a like a people pleasing? Like you felt like if these people had the anger or frustration that then it was your fault, maybe.

[00:05:44] Tony Lugo: I'm sure that had a little bit to do with it. It was that, and you were, I was afraid of consequences and, I was just afraid of talking to people and, being. And a prolonged conversation with anyone, like I said, it was a crippling, a timid feeling.

I would get that though. It was like a heavy blanket, you know, it was painfully shy quiet. And it was just not it, wasn't never comfortable, but you didn't put yourself in any situations that put you in any danger, I don't know. the perceived notion is that anything could be a situation of danger or a situation of great discomfort.

[00:06:22] Damaged Parents: So you've kind of gone to fight or flight, even just talking to someone.

[00:06:26] Tony Lugo: yeah. Yeah.

[00:06:27] Damaged Parents: Would you start sweating? and

[00:06:30] Tony Lugo: I wouldn't even allow myself to get, I would just get really anxious. My heart would race and I would S I, I stutter. I still started to this day and I, I look for my words a lot, in conversations. So I used to feel. You know, Like a moron. even though I would read a lot, I still felt like I wasn't doing enough because how could I read a lot and still struggle to find a word that means something in a conversation?

[00:06:58] Damaged Parents: Okay. I got to tell you something then right now, as I, we, we chuckle, I have caregivers who helped me edit the podcast and we laugh. Because there are times that it's like Andy and Anne from me. And or the, the, the, and it cracks me. It's I just started laughing at it because it's like, oh, there I go again.

[00:07:18] Tony Lugo: Yeah.

[00:07:19] Damaged Parents: Especially when I can't find my words. It's so easy to just get stuck on that same word over and over again. It, Yeah.

Anyway, so I thought I would share that with you. So you were not the only one

[00:07:33] Tony Lugo: good. You know, And, , through the work you discover that you discover that there are millions of people that share struggles with you. No one person, in general, we're a lot more alike than we are different. As a species, I think, we all suffer from. Things, we all have problems and we all have likes and dislikes and we all share a lot more in common than we think.

[00:07:54] Damaged Parents: Yeah, I love there's a quote. I can't remember if I made it up or if I saw something similar, it's smart to notice the differences it's wise to notice the similarities. How do you get there? I would think.

being a director and things like that. That you would have some insight into that inner world because you're able to show you have to show it.

It's not like for me, it's not like reading a book. When I watch a show, I don't get that same background of dialogue that I get when I read a book. So how did that help you?

[00:08:30] Tony Lugo: So I guess in that sense, I was hit with a bit of luck with, finding my passion, to be filmmaking and movies and cinema in general. for me the purest place I can go. To enjoy art is the cinema where someone would go to a museum or go to a friend's photo show or something for me, the purest place I can go is the movie theater.

I think discovering a love for filmmaking at an early age, helps me both helped and hindered because I was able to hide behind the camera. But still discover, inner truths about people when this is going into the documentary world the that's that curiosity of humanity I was safe behind the camera because they weren't talking to me.

They were talking to the camera, they were talking to the world, instead of me. And I think once the camera went away is when all the problems would start and. Yeah. I think uh, to answer your question, it helped prolong my anxiety and depression, because I felt like I was doing a good job when we were rolling.

[00:09:35] Damaged Parents: Oh, okay. So you were behind the camera because you were behind the camera and you're doing this fantastic. You could do all these things and you kind of had your focus maybe on that. As soon as the camera went away, then all of the feelings would come in

and then managing them was difficult.

[00:09:54] Tony Lugo: Yeah.

[00:09:56] Damaged Parents: so is this. Coming on this podcast and talking to me, is this one of those things that you had to work through? Like as far as not, maybe not necessarily at this point in time, but at some point, was, it like exposure therapy to interview with people and talk with people?

[00:10:15] Tony Lugo: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I wouldn't get there if my therapist didn't say, hold your foot. We did this one exposure exercise that was. painful to go through. It was ask people for the time and I would ask people for the time. And then once we got to a certain level of asking people for the time, then he goes, okay, you see that person waiting in their car?

 go ask them, for the time, knock on their window and have them roll it down and asked them for the time. And once we got through stuff like that, then, then he was like, okay, hold your phone in your hand. And then go ask people for the time.

[00:10:48] Damaged Parents: Oh, shoot. Did they ever say you have your phone there?

[00:10:53] Tony Lugo: Yeah, the majority of the people still like a couple of people looked at my phone and then looked at me and still gave me the time. There was one person in particular that was, that just wasn't having it. but that was a good lesson itself as well. It's a, you're not going to get the response you want from everybody,

[00:11:08] Damaged Parents: yeah, but sounds like it could be a tremendous amount of fun though, too.

[00:11:12] Tony Lugo: Sure

[00:11:13] Damaged Parents: like.

[00:11:15] Tony Lugo: crippling anxiety, you know, you're not, your heart's not palpitating and beforehand.

[00:11:18] Damaged Parents: yeah.

or it could be the heart. My heart is palpitating and I'm excited. I don't know am I afraid or am I excited? Which way am I going to go with it? Like I don't, I still I'm thinking more people are in your shoes though, because even yesterday we went down for a walk by the bike trail and no one said hello.

So I just

I was just saying hello to everyone. And it was so amazing how surprised they looked that they were just getting a hello from, I mean, I've got the braces on my arms, I'm walking slow. My caregivers got my chairs, so I could sit down and have a break. And, they just would start talking and opening up and it almost, I feel like Maybe it changed the energy, I don't know. with being so observant because I see that as like one of your superpowers, you have this amazing ability to observe, Right.

Just from what I've heard and talked to you about, would you say that when you go into places, you can, do you have kind of a sense of that?

The energy, if it's heavy or low or I'm happy or sad.

[00:12:20] Tony Lugo: Yeah, I'm better at sensing a lot of that stuff. Now, in fact, your funny story. Well, not a funny story. One of the. You going in and saying hello to people. That was one of the exposure therapies was saying, hello to a person on the street corner while you're waiting to cross the street, while you're waiting for the light to turn red and, saying hi to people?

It's a, I think I am more in tune with what I feel now and I'm, able to see it's, funny because I don't feel like I cured because I still feel like that rush of anxiety coming on all the time and I still get those negative thoughts of uh, you're not good enough. And what's your problem?

Why are you even trying to do anything? I still get all those thoughts, but, with the anxiety, I can, I can manage, I can start with the deep breathing and then start remembering. Exposure therapy. One of the things I do now is unless the space doesn't allow for it, I always back into a parking spot now, and that helps me with the anxiety.

Like it starts, whether I'm going to the store, I can feel like the heart start, tying in a little bit, like the heart rate going up and backing into a parking spot actually helps me calm myself. Cause it it's letting me know that. No way. No, one's here. No one's against you. No, one's no one's upset.

They might be slightly annoyed that you're backing in instead of pulling in, but they'll get over it the instant they pass you. And what the negative thoughts? I was told once that thoughts are like birds. They fly over, you can't help them fly over you, but you can help if they land in nest where you don't want them to.

[00:13:49] Damaged Parents: Right. So catching or taking hold of a thought is turning it into something. Whereas it can just kind of keep flying. And then one thing I did want to let you know that I learned a long time ago about backing in is it's actually safer.

[00:14:04] Tony Lugo: Oh really? There you go. I'm doing the world of favor.

[00:14:10] Damaged Parents: Yeah, it's actually safer to pull out of a parking spot going forward than it is backwards. So at the end of the day, it's actually easier to back in and to pull out than it is to pull in and back out. So

[00:14:24] Tony Lugo: Oh,

[00:14:24] Damaged Parents: you had no idea,

[00:14:26] Tony Lugo: I had no idea.

[00:14:27] Damaged Parents: isn't that beautiful? Like What a great.

[00:14:29] Tony Lugo: I thought I was just slightly inconveniencing people.

[00:14:32] Damaged Parents: Oh, no, I mean, sure. It's so funny. I've got, probably if I hadn't had caregivers, I would have been a little more anxious with driving, and, you know, speeding and stuff. But Maybe it was a beautiful thing that I lost that control of being able to use my hands, the way that I want to do.

And so we drive, so I've learned that I can't tell them that relate cause they'll speed and that, don't let the people.

behind us pushing us. If we're going to go, if we're going at the speed limit, don't worry about it. Don't don't, don't try to speed up cause it's just gonna cause us trouble. And it's really interesting watching what people do behind us now that I'm like, wait, hold on.

We can own this space. And when we own this space, then they can make their choice, but we don't have to let them push us. And it's, it's really interesting. I mean, we got flipped off yesterday or Yeah.

it was yesterday. We got flipped off, like little things like that, but I think at the end of the day where's the emotion or the anger settle, it's not inside of the.

[00:15:34] Tony Lugo: Yeah. Right. That's very profound owning this space. You could take that philosophy outside of the car and into your everyday life. But I think I'm going to borrow that if you don't mind.

[00:15:45] Damaged Parents: Yeah. of course, Yeah.

Own that space. You're powerful, man. I think had I not had that crippling anxiety and depression which I think is, normal on some level that. I wouldn't have learned how to get to that point. So for me, when I look back, I see it as, oh, that was a fantastic tool given to me. And I didn't even realize it was a gift for me to get over here. To where now I have more, more insight and a lot more fun, like who would have thought saying hello on the bike trail would be fun, and now I'm, fascinated by the looks. I get like what you're saying hi to me. And then the smile that shows up on their face, like that's kind of like sharing the love.

[00:16:35] Tony Lugo: it is. I like saying hi to people now, before it was head down and hands in my pockets and I mean, it's things people take for granted, but to me, it's a beautiful act to say hello to people. I mean, cause I couldn't do it, you know, like I couldn't do it. I couldn't talk to people.

[00:16:50] Damaged Parents: Yeah, it's hard in that space. So how did you be beyond like the exposure therapy? I mean, that had to take some courage.

[00:16:59] Tony Lugo: I mean, was, it was frightening at first, and it was little things like if you ordered a latte and you got the wrong size, or it wasn't hot enough the therapist was like, go ask them to make it again, and it's things like that would, cripple me.

[00:17:11] Damaged Parents: So if somebody made a latte and it wasn't hot, would you get frustrated on the inside and then just be like, well, I'll just deal with it. Or would you do something else?

[00:17:22] Tony Lugo: No, I would, just accept it. I would just accept it as like a c'est la vie thing, it was, nothing to stress over. And uh, worst things are happening in the world. Then you're getting above a warm latte instead of a hot latte or cappuccino instead of a latte, but then also realize that it's not that big a deal just to go say, Hey, do you mind making this again?

I wasn't inconveniencing anybody by asking for that. Yeah.

[00:17:49] Damaged Parents: I mean, you paid for the latte,

[00:17:51] Tony Lugo: Yeah,

[00:17:52] Damaged Parents: So was it also maybe finding value in yourself?

[00:17:55] Tony Lugo: yeah. I bet you a lot. I had to do with that. There was a lot of value that I didn't play. So myself, I had placed outwardly versus on myself. Yeah, sometimes it's sad to think about that guy, but it's someone who didn't have any self-worth I feel sad.

For that person, but also feel happy because I knew that person had the strength to eventually get to a place where I'm talking to you,

[00:18:20] Damaged Parents: So did all of this exist as a child, like growing up, was this a normal type of thing or did something happen where you were triggered and maybe there's PTSD or something that, that triggered all of this?

[00:18:36] Tony Lugo: Yeah. I was always the quiet kid growing up in school and people always picked on me for being the quiet kid. But then, then I went into the military. I was the tall, quiet kid in the Marine Corps. You think about people, especially young men at 18, they have to prove themselves somehow.

And what easier way to prove yourself than to the talk quiet kid who doesn't say anything. And then there was, I deployed to Guantanamo bay Cuba, right after nine 11. And then after I got out of the military, my brother passed away. So there was a, in a short span of time, there was a lot that happened.

[00:19:09] Damaged Parents: So coming out, of the out of service, was that a loss and then the loss of the brothers. So it was it like having two losses at the same time.

[00:19:18] Tony Lugo: Well, no, because I wanted to , get out of the service. My contract was ending and I didn't want to re-enlist and I did my time and I wanted to go back home. I think one of the things that happens with veterans I've mentioned this to other people was that I don't know how better they've gotten at it, but they don't do that.

Great. A job of, integrating you back into society into the civilian world. You take a lot of baggage into the civilian world with you. And you can see it now with our veteran crisis that we have, people just have trouble adapting.

[00:19:50] Damaged Parents: Yeah, because it's seems like it would be extremely intense. I mean, even after nine 11,

[00:19:56] Tony Lugo: Yeah.

[00:19:57] Damaged Parents: In Guantanamo bay. I don't remember what was happening. I'm not a historian by any means,

[00:20:02] Tony Lugo: Hmm.

[00:20:02] Damaged Parents: but for some that's triggering that something like, was there something going on there that was like super stressful or was it

just being in the services?

[00:20:11] Tony Lugo: we had the prison where all the detainees from Afghanistan were coming in.

[00:20:16] Damaged Parents: Okay.

So this is where I think I read a book on that, where they did some, some really bad things to the detainees. Right.

[00:20:23] Tony Lugo: Yeah, right, right,

I mean, I yeah, I never personally saw anything. So I couldn't tell you if that's true or not. but I mean, if there are reports, I'm sure stuff happened, but I never, I can't confirm nor deny, just cause I, didn't see anything.

[00:20:39] Damaged Parents: But was there like a level of stress just being in that environment then.

[00:20:43] Tony Lugo: Yeah. I mean, I think just, being deployed in itself especially to a place where, there's a bunch of at the time, your perceived notion is that they're the bad guys and, just being in that space is a stressful in itself. And you don't realize it until you, many years pass and, You just randomly think about like the stresses you are under.

[00:21:03] Damaged Parents: So even just having the idea that these are bad guys, whether or not they were not just having that idea can create, I guess that makes a lot of sense. It could create a lot of stress. ' cause after all these are bad guys and somehow they're going to get you.

[00:21:19] Tony Lugo: Yeah. Right.

[00:21:20] Damaged Parents: I hadn't really even thought I hadn't thought of it that way before I'm thinking guns, bullets, all those things, bombs,

[00:21:27] Tony Lugo: Yeah,

[00:21:27] Damaged Parents: grenades,

[00:21:28] Tony Lugo: they was, they would throw they would reach into uh, we had 'em and going to the bathroom and out houses and they would reach into the buckets and throw their, excrement at us. And, That was it. It was a unique experience to say the least.

[00:21:44] Damaged Parents: Yeah.

[00:21:45] Tony Lugo: Hmm.

[00:21:45] Damaged Parents: That's really interesting. so how did you keep going after you got back? I mean, did you even know you had an issue until the Exposure therapy, did something where you just totally frozen and like staying at home or what happened that you realized. Okay. I have a serious problem.

[00:22:03] Tony Lugo: Right. Yeah. I mean, I was doing things like if I noticed a car parked out front, I would stand by the window shades and just peek at it, for a couple hours, if I felt somebody was following me in my car, I would, detour on my route and just go all around the city and make sure the car wasn't following me. Yeah, it was a, it was a sense that like it's, something was implemented in me where I think it happens to a lot of veterans too, where dangerous everywhere, and I think that doesn't help when you're trying to integrate back to civilian society and, Trying to just live your life. Things that were incredibly helpful.

If you were to deploy, if you were to deploy to a war zone are kind of useless when you're not knowingly useless, but they're incredibly hindering and stress inducing. When you're safe at home.

[00:22:52] Damaged Parents: Okay. What would be the top three tools or tips of someone who's suffering? Like maybe they're back at that point where you're talking about they're totally suffering second, their house, or maybe somewhere else along the way, what would be the top three tools or tips you say try this.

[00:23:08] Tony Lugo: Yeah. I would say for me in journaling helped a lot, journaling helped a lot. you'll do things like you'll, your anxiety will cause you to get fired from a job or go through a breakup or, something like that. And, you kind of just bottle it in and leave it alone. But I would say journaling, one of my therapists gave me a profound statement where it was like, journaling is you.

If you don't, this is you telling your story. If you don't tell your story, someone else has got to tell your story from their perspective. it generally is just you taking the control back and allowing yourself to be creative and tell your story. Whether even if you're the only one that reads it, you're still getting it out.

And you're telling your story from your perspective. And it's kinda like a self censorship. If you don't. Tell your story. You're self censoring yourself, exposure therapy helped me a lot, but I think you gotta go through that with a trained professional for first. Cause I wouldn't know.

It's one thing to go ask somebody for the time, but it's another thing to have someone coaching you through it and know, I would say. If you want to do exposure therapy on your own, start off by just saying hi to the grocery cashier and ask how their day was. There was the journaling, the, your, their own minor, or your own self exposure.

Just accepting that you have thoughts and you can't control thoughts and accepting that, and you can't control the thoughts, but you can control whether or not you hold onto the thoughts.

[00:24:39] Damaged Parents: Almost like you don't have to, just because you had the thought, you don't have to believe it.

[00:24:43] Tony Lugo: Right. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. That in deep breathing, I deep breathe all the time out of the blue. I'll start just taking deep breaths for a minute. Yeah.

[00:24:52] Damaged Parents: Yeah. Yeah. Well, awesome. Well thank you for coming on the show today. You can find, Oh, yeah, you can find a Tony Lugo On Instagram @_lugotron or on Twitter and Tik TOK, @lugotron, I'm sorry. On Tik TOK. It is @lugotr0n. Tron has a zero as the oh, and he's also on the web at https://lugotron.com. Thank you so much for being on the show.

[00:25:18] Tony Lugo: It was such a great pleasure and, thank you very much. I'm going to take the owning of my space with me from this podcast. Thank you very much.

[00:25:27] Damaged Parents: You're welcome.

 We really enjoy talking to Tony about how he struggled with PTSD and recovered. We especially liked when he spoke about immersion therapy. To unite with other damaged people connect with us on Instagram look for damaged parents We'll be here next week still relatively damaged see you then