S2E32: How to Heal from Betrayal
Dr. Debi Silber is the founder of the PBT (Post Betrayal Transformation) Institute and is a holistic psychologist, a health, mindset and personal development expert, the author of Trust Again, and is a 2-time #1 International bestselling author of: The Unshakable Woman AND From Hardened to Healed: The Effortless Path to Release Resistance, Get Unstuck and Create a Life You Love. Her podcast: From Betrayal to Breakthrough is also globally ranked within the top 1.5% of podcasts. Her recent PhD study on how we experience betrayal made 3 groundbreaking discoveries that changes how long it takes to heal. In addition to being on FOX, CBS, The Dr. Oz Show, TEDx (twice) and more, she’s an award-winning speaker and coach dedicated to helping people move past their betrayals as well as any other blocks preventing them from the health, work, relationships, confidence, and happiness they want most.
Social media and contact information:
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Twitter: https://twitter.com/DebiSilber
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debisilber/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/debisilber/
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/debisilber
Podcast transcript
[00:00:00] Damaged Parents: Welcome back to the Relatively Damaged podcast by Damaged Parents where betrayed, determined, loving people come to learn. Maybe just, maybe we're all a little bit damaged. Someone once told me it's safe to assume. 50% of the people I meet are struggling and feel wounded in some way.
I would venture to say it's closer to 100%. Every one of us is either currently struggling or has struggled with something that made us feel less than. Like we aren't good enough. We aren't capable. We are relatively damaged. And that's what we're here to talk about. In my ongoing investigation of the damage self, I want to better understand how others view their own challenges.
Maybe it's not so much about the damage, maybe it's about our perception and how we deal with it. There is a deep commitment to becoming who we are meant to be. How do you do that? How do you find balance after a damaging experience? My hero is the damaged person. The one who faces seemingly insurmountable odds to come out on the other side, whole.
Those who stare directly into the face of adversity with unyielding persistence to discover their purpose. These are the people who inspire me to be more fully me. Not in spite of my trials, but because of them. Let's hear from another hero.
Today's topic includes sensitive material, which may not be appropriate for children. This podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended as advice. The opinions expressed here are strictly those of the person who gave them.
Today, we're going to talk with Dr. Debi Silber. She has many roles in her life, wife, mother, business, woman, and more. We'll talk about how she was betrayed by her family and husband and how she found health and healing let's talk
Welcome back to Relatively Damaged by Damaged Parents. Today. We have Dr. Debi Silber with us. She is the founder of the PBT, Post Betrayal Transformation Institute and is a holistic Psychologist a health and mindset and personal development expert, the author of Trust Again, and this is a two time number one international best-selling author of The Unshakable Woman, and From Hardened to Healed: The Effortless Path to Release Resistance get Unstuck and Create a Life You Love. She also has a podcast from Betrayal to Breakthrough and is globally ranked in the top 1.5% of podcasts, her recent PhD study on how we experienced betrayal made three groundbreaking discoveries that change how long it takes to heal from betrayal.
In addition to being on Fox CBS, the Dr. Oz show, TEDx twice. And now here on Relatively Damaged and more she's an award-winning speaker and coach dedicated to helping people move past their betrayals as well as any other blocks, preventing them from the health, work, relationships, confidence, and happiness they want most. Welcome to the show. Debbie, thank you for coming today.
[00:03:08] Dr. Debi Silber: Thank you for having me looking forward to our conversation.
[00:03:11] Damaged Parents: Me too. Now I've just, before we started the recording recording, I said I'm a little bit of a nerd and I'm interested in studies and I really do want to know. I mean, first of all, something happened, which led you to the study. So I'd love to know what happened, but I really do want to hear a little bit about the nuts and bolts of how you came to these conclusions.
[00:03:32] Dr. Debi Silber: Sure. You know, no one's studies betrayal because it's a topic you want to study, you know, it just doesn't happen. So of course there's a story. It's actually my 30th year. And business and as life would change so would business. So I started in health and then mindset and then personal development. And then I had a really painful betrayal from my family, thought I did everything I needed to do to heal from that.
And then a few years later it happened again, this time, my husband, anybody who's been through it, you're shocked. You're blindsided. Life will never be the same. So I got him out of the house and I looked at the two experiences and to see what was in common, of course me, but what else? And I realized you know boundaries. We're always getting crossed. I never took my own needs seriously. And I know if nothing changes, nothing changes. And so here I was four kids, six dogs, a thriving business, and I'm like, no, I'm going back for a PhD. I don't even know why I had that thought in my head. But it was in transpersonal psychology, the psychology of transformation and human potential because I was changing so much.
I didn't quite understand what was happening. He was too on his own. Wasn't ready to look at that. And then it was time to do a study so I sent him betrayal. What holds us back, what helps us heal and what happens to us physically, mentally, and emotionally, when the people closest to us lie, cheat and deceive, that study led to three groundbreaking discoveries, which changed my health, my family, my work, my life.
[00:04:51] Damaged Parents: Now. betrayal, it seems like one is blindsided and there is no clue as to what happened. So you had really no clue about what was going on twice,
[00:05:05] Dr. Debi Silber: mhmm
[00:05:06] Damaged Parents: which led you to a thought, Ooh, I want to understand what in the world was I doing?
[00:05:11] Dr. Debi Silber: Yeah, a book on it wasn't getting me out of this. I needed a whole PhD on it, you know, and that's what happens here, it's this person, these people that gave us a sense of safety and security. And then these are the very people. This is the very person to shatter that sense of safety and security it's traumatizing, think about it.
When the person you trusted the most proves on trustworthy, who do you trust when the one you run to an other people or causing harm is the one causing the harm, where do you go? If it's it's such a different type of trauma. And that actually was the first discovery. I was like, I've been through other traumas.
I've been through death of a loved one. I've been through disease. Even, and betrayal felt different for me, but I didn't want to assume that was the case for all my study participants. And I said, if you've been through betrayal and you know, obviously there were my study. If you've been through other traumas besides this does this feel different for you?
Anonymously. They said it was so different and here's why, because it feels so intensely. We take it so personally, so the entire self is shattered, rejection, abandonment, belonging, confidence, worthiness trust, they're all shattered and they all have to be rebuilt. So I pointed your term post betrayal transformation.
That's the complete and total rebuild of your life and yourself after an experience with betrayal, that was the first discovery.
[00:06:33] Damaged Parents: yeah, and I would think with betrayal, there is a total loss of sense of trust in the self in all of those areas that you were talking about. So it can't just be. healing from it it's like one would have to go through a total transformation of learning how to, I don't know, was it, is it reading and understanding other people?
I mean, because it's really, I mean, if you get involved with a psychopath you don't know and talk about betrayal at that point. Right.
[00:07:00] Dr. Debi Silber: For sure. You know, I teach a four step trust rebuilding process and actually, I talk about a lot of that stuff in, trust again. But it's so foundational, you know, trust is so foundational, so it has to be rebuilt from the ground up. I mean, think about what happens, the person you trusted the most proved untrustworthy and then the next logical thought is, Well, I can't trust myself because where was I how did I not see, how did I not know? So if I don't trust the person I trusted the most and I don't trust myself, how in the world can they trust in anybody or anything? It affects everything.
Everything.
[00:07:32] Damaged Parents: Healing becomes almost impossible,
[00:07:35] Dr. Debi Silber: Not impossible,
There's actually a roadmap and proven predictable way to heal. And that was the third discovery. Yeah. At which is so it's so comforting because of how foundational it is. It's you don't know where to go. You don't know what to do. You think you're crazy, you know, think about it with other traumas.
Like, And it's not to say which traumas are better or worse. They all stink, but it's, let's say you lose someone you love, right?
You don't necessarily question your sanity, right? You don't necessarily take it personally. You don't, there are so many aspects of betrayal where it is such a hit to the self, you know, and then once you get the heart involved, that's a whole other thing.
[00:08:12] Damaged Parents: right. Healing the heart and how do I get back cause at that point it seems like it would make sense for people to really and Did you find this in your studies? Like once someone was betrayed, they just shut down that emotional heart.
[00:08:24] Dr. Debi Silber: Very common. Yeah. Well, here's the thing. We can spot an unhealed betrayal in a mile away and it shows up in your health and your work in your relationships. In relationships, I'll see it in one of two ways. The first way is a repeat betrayal when I see a repeat betrayal, like the face has changed, but it's the same thing they keep going from boss, to boss, to boss, from friend to friend to friend partner to partner partner.
You're like, what the heck is it me? Yes, it is. not in that. It's your fault in that? It's your opportunity. There's this profound lesson needing to be learned that you are lovable, worthy, deserving, you need better boundaries in place, whatever it is until, and unless you get that, you will keep getting opportunities in the form of people to teach you.
Like, Look at my example, here it was my family you know, then it was my husband and I'm like, what the heck? And so for me, enrolling in that PhD program, I had never done anything for myself. And certainly of that magnitude changed my entire life. Change the rules you see? So, when we keep going from one betrayal to the next it is a sign that, that first betrayal, was never cleared up.
So that's one way we see it. The second way in relationships is we'll see it in where people put that big wall up. Like What you mentioned was like, Nope. Been there, done that. No, one's getting near me again. And we think that's coming from a place of strength. It's not it's coming from fear. You know, We see it in, in health people go to the most well-meaning doctors, coaches, healers therapists to manage a stress-related symptom, illness, condition disease.
At the root of it very often is an unhealed betrayal. We see it at work. You know, people want to ask for that raise or promotion. They deserve it, but their confidence was shattered. So they don't have the confidence to ask, or they want to be a team player, collaborative partner, but the person they trusted the most proved untrustworthy.
How do they trust that boss? That coworker, that partner shows up everywhere.
[00:10:08] Damaged Parents: Wow. You are really talking about trust on so many different levels and betrayal on so many different levels. I mean, you're talking it happens at work. It happens with relationships. friendships you know, marriages. All of that, but one of the things that I caught that you said very quickly was, is it my fault or something to that effect?
Yes, it is. And it's like, the way you said it just was like, matter of fact absolutely. Let's take a look at this and it wasn't out of like, well, yes, it's your fault. It was, yeah, let's take a look at this and investigate it. And do you understand where I'm going with that?
[00:10:42] Dr. Debi Silber: Yeah, definitely not your fault. No. And I want to be clear. It's not your fault. It's your opportunity. It's never your fault that someone makes those choices. And I want to be clear about that. Absolutely not your fault. It is your opportunity though. You always want to take a look and say, what was my role in this?
But never ever, ever. Should you take responsibility for someone else's actions? It's not your fault, but it is your opportunity because think about it. When you get that lesson that you are worthy, lovable, deserving, you need better boundaries, whatever it is, you rewrite the script you show up differently.
And because of that, you attract a very different type of person into your life, whether it is that same person who has absolutely grown or someone that you just never would have resonated with before, had you not done the work to heal?
[00:11:31] Damaged Parents: Right. Okay. So I think, right. So I think what I was catching on, was when going from that person to the person of the person or putting up the wall, that then it is something I'm doing and I get to take responsibility for what I'm doing. And it's not up to those other, yes those other people are there and they're being themselves.
But that doesn't mean that I have to take that on as my responsibility also.
[00:11:55] Dr. Debi Silber: Not your fault. Absolutely not your fault, but yes, It is the absolute perfect time to take a look and say, how am I showing up in my showing up? If I felt lovable worthy, deserving. If I had better boundaries in place you know, whatever it is for you and for everybody it's different.
Would I tolerate a certain level of behavior? Would I accept something? Would I show up differently? That's what I'm talking about.
[00:12:17] Damaged Parents: Yeah, and I think that's really hard, especially for anyone who's experienced trauma or betrayal, right. To figure out for themselves is that part of your program is helping them learn.
[00:12:29] Dr. Debi Silber: A hundred percent. you know, you need, not only do you need support, you need the right type of support. The wrong type of support does more harm than good. We have actually, it's so common. Let's say someone goes and sees a therapist. If that therapist isn't highly skilled in betrayal, it does more harm than good.
Or let's say you're in a support group, but it's more like the kind of, ain't it awful club, and when you start healing, you almost don't belong. And you're looking for community and you're looking for support. So you almost sabotage yourself, so you don't grow. So, the research proved what it is we all need.
And so you do need support, but you need people who get it. But who lift and inspire, And that's of course what we have within the PVT Institute. And, you know, there's a roadmap now that was one of the other discoveries, which happy to share that too. But with that healing is absolutely predictable.
[00:13:16] Damaged Parents: I'd love that it becomes predictable because I think what happens a lot of times is people get into this mindset of, oh, I'm always going to need therapy and, or they get into an unhealthy relationship with a therapist that goes on for years and years and years. And they don't understand that, that's not what that's for,
[00:13:32] Dr. Debi Silber: well, you know, here, good thing. We I'm a psychologist, I'm a coach first. So I want to hear the story so that I know what we need to do to move you through it. But what happens is there's ruminating where you're making sense and meaning out of your experience. And then there's marinading, where you're doing no more good with it than the last a hundred thousand times
you went over it and that's detrimental because all that's doing now, that's affecting you physically as well. And it's locking these, it's creating these neural connections where you're so hardwired to share that story and tell that story that it becomes who you are. And it's harder to leave.
That's really classic in one stage of the five stages from betrayal to breakthrough. And it's really common in a lot of the symptoms that we see. I'm happy to get to the second discovery and this will all make sense. Yeah. So the second discovery was there's actually this collection of symptoms, physical, mental, and emotional, so common to betrayal.
It's known as post-betrayal syndrome. And we've had 50,000 plus people take the post betrayal syndrome quiz on our site to see to what extent they're struggling. What's so interesting about that quiz is, you know, first of all, we've all heard time heals all wounds. I have the proof when it comes to betrayal, that's not true because there's a question that says, is there anything else you'd like to share?
And people write things like my betrayal happened 35 years ago. I'm unwilling to trust. My betrayal happened 10 years ago. It feels like it happened yesterday. So we know, but you can't count on time to heal it. It may soften it a bit but there is a very specific protocol you need to heal. Every couple of months I pulled the stats from the quiz to see where people land.
I mean, I'm happy to share them if that
[00:15:08] Damaged Parents: would please.
[00:15:09] Dr. Debi Silber: Okay.
So now imagine out of 50,000 people, men, women just bet. Every countries represented 78% constantly revisit their experience. 81% feel loss of personal power. 80% are hypervigilant, that's exhausting. 94% deal with painful triggers The most common physical symptoms 71% have low energy.
68% have sleep issues. 63% have extreme fatigue. You sleep a whole night. You wake up, you're exhausted. Say, you know, your adrenals have tanked 47% have weight changes. So in the beginning, maybe you can't hold food down later on. You're using food for comfort. Forty-five percent have digestive issues And that's anything from Crohn's IBS, diverticulitis, constipation, diarrhea, you name it.
The most common mental symptoms. 78% are overwhelmed. 70% are walking around in a state of disbelief. 68% are unable to focus. 64% are in shock. 62% are unable to concentrate. So imagine you can't concentrate. You have a gut issue. You're exhausted. You have to raise your kids. You have to show up at work every day.
That's not even emotional. Ready. The emotional issues. 88% experience, extreme sadness. 83% are really angry. 82% feel hurt. 80% have anxiety. 79% are stressed. Just a few more. This is why I wrote the book trust again. Ready? 84%. I have an inability to trust. 67% prevent themselves from forming deep relationships because they're afraid of being hurt again.
82% find it hard to move forward. 90% want to move forward, but they don't know how
[00:16:47] Damaged Parents: And when you say trust, you're talking about anything, any trust, whether it's a friendship, a family member, any relationship
[00:16:56] Dr. Debi Silber: Inability to trust. What's even crazier those stats. I just read. That's not even from a recent betrayal. That could be from an experience that happened decades ago.
[00:17:06] Damaged Parents: Wow. Are these all people coming to your website looking for betrayal or is it, are they funneled in from somewhere else?
[00:17:13] Dr. Debi Silber: They're hearing about, you know, maybe they've seen my TEDx talks or maybe they've heard about the books or I'm always on podcasts and shows and things, you know, or from mine, my podcasts, you know, so it's, could be from anywhere or they're just Googling, you know, betrayal and I come up, you know, whatever I'm shattered, trust something, but they take the quiz and it's just, it's staggering, it's staggering.
and the thing is people stay with these symptoms and then, forever, like really, , if you don't do something about it, which is about I'm happy to share the third discovery. But then they start medicating the symptoms and treating the symptoms. Let's say weight changes.
So, they start gaining weight. They'll just go on a diet to lose the weight, or they have adrenal issues. They start taking something for that. Or are they you know, sleep issues they take something like that. Well, that's all well and good, but you're only going to take that healing so far, unless you get to the real root cost, which is the betrayal
[00:18:04] Damaged Parents: yeah. Yeah. Okay. So you've got to take us to the next step now.
[00:18:08] Dr. Debi Silber: Okay. So for me, this was the most exciting of all of the discoveries. And what we learned was while we can stay stuck for years, decades of lifetime. And so many of us do, if we're going to fully heal and by fully heal, I mean, symptoms of post betrayal syndrome to that whole healed, rebuilt place of post betrayal transformation.
We're going to go through five now proven predictable stages. And what's even more exciting about that is we even know what happens physically, mentally and emotionally at every stage. And we know what it takes to move from one stage to the next that's what healing is predictable. If someone is willing to do what it takes to move, they will predictably move through the stages and heal.
I'm happy to share the stages if you want.
[00:18:53] Damaged Parents: Yeah, I'm just thinking how comforting that could be to people. And because it sounds like, as someone's moving through, I mean, a trauma can be, feel like a betrayal also. So not only are they dealing with trauma, but they've got this betrayal component to a trauma and things like that. And I can't imagine how.
Comforting that will be to go, oh that you know what? This is proven. I can try this. And the chances, you know, there are statistics that show this, will work.
[00:19:22] Dr. Debi Silber: I wish I had this when I was healing. Yeah. Yeah, so it's, it's all in trusting. And it's what we teach within the Institute. It's what all of our coaches are certified in. I'll give you an abbreviated version of it. Stage one is like a set-up stage. And if you can imagine four legs of a table, the four legs being physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual.
What I saw with every study participant me too, was this heavy lean on the physical and the mental thinking and doing, and kind of neglecting the emotional and the spiritual feeling and being. So if you imagine a table with only two. It's easy for that table to topple over, right. That's us. And that's not to say if you're busy thinking and doing, you will be betrayed, it was just a profile.
I saw stage two shock blindsided D-day discovery day, the scariest of all of the stages. This is really where the bottom of bottoms out in you. And this is the breakdown of the body, the mind, and the worldview Right. here. You just received this news. You've ignited the stress response. You are headed for every single stress related symptom, illness, condition disease.
Your mind is in a complete and total state of chaos and overwhelmed. You can't wrap your mind around what you just learned. This makes no sense. And your worldview has just been shattered, your worldviews, your mental model, the rules that prevent chaos, that govern you. Don't go here trust this person, you know, the rules and in a moment or series of moment, every really you've ever had is no longer the bottom bottoms out and a new bottom hasn't been formed yet.
That's how terrifying it is, but think about it. If the bottom were to bottom out on you, what would you do? You'd grab hold of anything you could to stay safe and stay alive. And that stage three survival instincts emerge. Stage three is the most practical out of all of the stages. If you can help me get out of my way, how do I survive this experience?
Where do I go? Who can I trust? How do I feed my kids? It's practical. Here's the trap though? Stage three is by far hands down the most commonplace to get stuck. And here's why.
[00:21:19] Damaged Parents: So you're saying that when someone's experienced of betrayal stage three, is the it's kind of the after effects is what I'm hearing you say where I might reach out for help, or I might go and read some books and then I just might get stuck there.
[00:21:34] Dr. Debi Silber: This is where you stop and yeah. And I'll explain. stage please. Yeah. And this is where most people land they're in stage two, they moved to stage three. That's where they wind up for life.
[00:21:45] Damaged Parents: Let me, I want to know if I, I just have an idea that maybe it's because the crisis is over and I'm kind of comfortable in stage three. so it's easy now. I want to hear this.
[00:21:56] Dr. Debi Silber: Yeah. So here's what happened once you figured out how to survive your experience, right? Because it feels so much better than the shock and trauma of where you just came from. You think it's good and because you don't know there's anywhere else to go, you don't know there's a stage four.
You don't know there's a stage five. So you start planting roots here. You're not supposed to, but you don't know that. And then four things happen. The first thing is you start getting all of these small self benefits, you know, secondary gain. You get to be right. You get someone to blame. You get your story, right?
You get sympathy from everybody you tell your story too. So you plant deeper roots here. You don't have to do the hard work of learning to trust again. Can I trust you? Should I trust you? I forget. I'm not trusting anybody. So you plant deeper roots. You're not supposed to stay here, but you don't know that now because you're here longer than you should.
Now, the mind starts doing things like, well, maybe you deserve. Maybe you're not all that great. Maybe this, maybe that. So you play a deeper roots again. You're not supposed to be here, but you don't know that now because these are the thoughts you're thinking, and this is the energy you have. That's what you're putting out there.
So like energy attracts like energy. So now you're calling circumstances and people and relationships towards you to confirm, yup. This is where you belong to gets worse, but I'll get you out of here because it feels so bad, but you don't know there's anywhere else to go. Right here. You resign yourself.
You're like this stinks, but I better find a way to be okay with it. So right here is where you start using foods, drugs, alcohol, work, TV, keeping busy to numb, avoid and distract yourself from this. painful space that you don't like. Now think about it. You do it for a day, a week, a month. Now it's a habit a year, 10 years, 20 years.
And I can see someone 20 years out and say that emotional eating you're doing, or that numbing in front of the TV or that drinking you're doing. Do you think that has anything to do with your betrayal? And they would look at me like I'm crazy. And they would say it happened 20 years ago. Well, they did was put themselves in stage three and stayed there.
Does that make sense?
[00:24:02] Damaged Parents: It does to me, I mean, I think what I hear you saying is. Bottom line, get out of crisis mode and immediately this state, what happens in stage three is so much better that I don't have to do any more work because it's so much better. So then what I hear you saying is these beliefs start settling in and I start believing that I was, only worth that type of behavior.
I was only worth this and I start calling to me or I become kind of a magnet, if you will, for all this stuff to can come back to me again and again and again, and just to validate, no, you weren't worth it. No, you, deserved that and see, it's just going to keep happening again and again, and I get to be right and maybe I'm more comfortable being right.
If I'm stuck in it.
[00:24:50] Dr. Debi Silber: Yeah, do you see? What I found was out of the five stages. So many people were landing in stage three and staying there for a lifetime. So from hardened to healed is just for stage three. Like it was so obvious that stage three-ers, I'm coming for you from harmed to because you've been through the worst of it already.
You owe it to yourself to move through all of the stages, to experience that post betrayal transformation. You want me to go through stage four and five?
[00:25:18] Damaged Parents: Well, because I'm thinking. That's great. Stage three sounds great to someone who's experiencing or currently experiencing that crisis, or even in the past has experienced it. And it was so devastating, but I'm, in a place where I'm thinking. And just from talking to you about these stages, that there's something really, really beautiful in stage four and five that maybe people aren't even aware of.
So yes, I do want you to share it, but I just want to put that in there. It's like, yeah, I get here. This looks good, but. There's more and guess what? We don't talk about it a lot.
[00:25:48] Dr. Debi Silber: No, and That's what was so exciting because it just showed up and it was obvious. So if you're willing to let go of those small self benefits, grieve more than the less bunch of things you need to do, you move to stage four, stage four is finding and adjusting to a new normal.
So here's where you acknowledge. I can't undo my experience, but I control what I do with it. And when you just make that mental decision, you start turning down the stress response. You're not healing just yet, but you just stopped the massive damage you'd been causing and stages two and stage three, when you make that decision.
Also, I always use the example of if you've ever moved to a new house, office, condo, apartment, whatever, you know, all your stuff. Isn't there. It's not quite cozy yet, but it's going to be okay right. But think about it. If you were to move, you don't take everything with you. You don't take those things that don't represent who you want to be in that new space.
And what I found was if your friends weren't there for you, you don't take them with you right here from stage three to stage four, you've outgrown them. People say to me all the time, what the heck is it me? Yes, it is. You're undergoing a transformation and if they don't rise, they don't come. you're playing in a different sandbox right here and you've just outgrown them.
Very common. When you've made stage four and you've made this new place mentally cozy, you've made it. Okay. You made it home. You move into the fifth, most beautiful stage, and this is healing rebirth, and a new worldview. The body starts to heal. Self-love, self-care, eating well, exercise. You didn't have the bandwidth for that earlier you were surviving.
now you do. You're making new rules. You're making new boundaries based on what you see so clearly, and you have a new worldview based on all you've experienced and the four legs of the table. In the beginning, it was just all about the physical and the mental. By this point, we're solidly grounded because we're focused on the emotional and the spiritual too.
Those are the five stages.
[00:27:43] Damaged Parents: That's amazing. And I think what I heard you say in stage four or how I interpret that is it might feel awkward at first, just like moving to a new town. You don't know how to get around. And maybe that awkward is okay. Like Keeping that in mind that this awkward, weird
[00:27:59] Dr. Debi Silber: unfamiliar.
[00:28:00] Damaged Parents: unfamiliar.
Yeah. I think of growing up when you grow super fast and you can't coordinate properly, it's the same type of thing.
You just, it's just not going to work. Right.
[00:28:09] Dr. Debi Silber: Unfamiliar, just like anything else you've ever done in the beginning, it was unfamiliar until it became familiar. Same thing here.
[00:28:16] Damaged Parents: Now have you noticed that people hesitate or might even drop out when they're going into stage four? Because it is so scary.
[00:28:24] Dr. Debi Silber: they're committed to the devil, you know right. It's that the devil, you know, is better than the devil. You don't know whatever that saying is, and it's predictable, it's miserable. It's not, anything that makes them feel fulfilled, empowered, happy, but it's predictable and it's familiar. And somehow, because it's familiar and predictable, that is.
better than what's waiting for them when they simply move through the stages
But people say stuck I mean, and it's also because there's a huge fear around. I'll lose all my people. I'll lose this. I lose that. And there is a tremendous amount of fear.
And it's also a lot of people just don't want to do the work. You know, I have this saying this mantra, I've been saying this for my 30 years in business. It applies to every single topic and I see it as it relates to betrayal too. And it's this easy now hard later. Hard now, easy later, take your pick. It's going to be one of those two.
Most people opt for easy now, hard later, right? Stage three on some level is easy. You don't have to think. You just have to survive, right? Healing, truly healing and moving through betrayal hard. Now it is hard, but it's also the most transformative work you'll ever do. And you create a version of you that never would have had the opportunity to show up. Had you not gone through that?
[00:29:43] Damaged Parents: I'm just wondering, I mean, gosh, you know, I told you this was conversational style, but right now I'm thinking about today's world and how many things are so easy. and there's this idea I can just make a phone call or I can just go to the doctor. I, can just get on my phone and order food.
I don't even have to go to the grocery store. easy, easy, easy. Right. And so how do. I don't know, want to use sell as those word, but how do we show people that, you know, stage four and five are even more beautiful and more more, I'm not sure what word to put there, but, have you figured out, or is there anything that we, as a society could do to, show that yeah, the heart is important and you're going to make it
[00:30:31] Dr. Debi Silber: It's a hard sell because most people just don't want to do the work. That's really it. I mean, think about it. That's why. And the two TEDx talks that I did, the first one was about this. It's so much easier to use food, drugs, alcohol work, TV, keeping busy, reckless behavior just to numb, but what happens is the voice gets louder and louder.
So the stakes get bigger and. But we think that's a better solution until it isn't, I use this analogy a lot and it' of like, if you've ever had a messy room, messy garage, let's just say, you think it's not vying for your attention, but it is. And you do all, you can to avoid that space because it doesn't feel good.
But think about it. There's that one day where you're like, that's it, I'm going in and you roll up your sleeves and you grab your garbage bags and, you're committed. Right. But think about it. It actually, in the beginning it looks worse. It looks worse because now you're like, I'm going to donate that.
I'm gonna toss that I'll fix this. I'll give this away. I'll put this back. If things are all over the place, but think about it, then you toss, you donate, you bring wherever to fix, right. And you put back, what's left. Now you stand back with pride. You're like, Ooh, Looking at me, right? You always want to bring your friends over, come look at my garage and your, so you feel this sense of empowerment and pride only because you dove in there and did the work.
You can't feel that unless you do that messy, uncomfortable work, that's what this is like, you have to do it. If you're going to move through it.
[00:31:52] Damaged Parents: Yeah. Oh, I love that analogy. I was just thinking, you know, and for those that are, are a little scared, I'm also thinking we can do a corner today. And tomorrow maybe we can do the other corner and if it feels okay, then we can do some more because it sounds like there's not like a, I mean, maybe not feel good, but if we start noticing that maybe it doesn't feel good, but we'd like, what we see then we can, I'm trying to think of an analogy on maybe, you could help me with my words right there.
[00:32:21] Dr. Debi Silber: right. Well, you know what, this stuff is hard and that's why, I mean, the PBT is did you is just getting the support you need. So you don't have to do this alone. You know, Everything that I did was alone and, the research showed what we needed and how we need support and how we heal so much better.
And we don't have to struggle physically and mentally and emotionally, nearly to the same extent, as when we have the right type of support. And we have coaches who specialize in addiction and healing and narcissism and you know, reconciliation and they're teaching all day long and then this community that is just, we're all in a club we never wanted to be in, but we're all healing together and we all learn too and this is what you know, everybody knows within the Institute.
And rebuilding is always a choice. Whether you rebuild yourself and move on, that's what I did with my family. It wasn't an option to rebuild with them, or if the situation lends itself, if you're willing, if you want to, you rebuild something entirely new with the person who hurt you. And that's what I do with my husband.
So not long ago is to totally transform people. We married each other again. New rings, new vows, new dress, and our four kids is a rental party. you know, Betrayal. Absolutely creates death and destruction of the old, but then again, that's where you build this new version of you or new collective you it's an opportunity.
[00:33:42] Damaged Parents: Yeah. So the pain and suffering that someone is in right now is an opportunity to find that growth and that love and peace. It sounds like through a tribe intrude practice through of transformation. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. Thank you so much, Dr. Debi Silber, with Post Betrayal Transformation Institute, otherwise known as the PBT Institute, you can find her at her website, http://thePVTInstitute.com
she's also on Facebook at Inspire Empower Transform. You can find her on LinkedIn, Instagram and YouTube and Twitter, Debi Silber, D E B I S I L B E R.
Thank you so much for coming on the show today Debi.
[00:34:28] Dr. Debi Silber: Thank you so much.
[00:34:30] Damaged Parents: Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Relatively Damaged by the image to parents. We've really enjoyed talking to Debi about how she did the research to determine how to heal from betrayal. We especially liked when she spoke about how she is sharing these tools with the world through her Institute.
To night with other damaged people, connect with us on Instagram. Look for damaged parents. We'll be here next week still relatively damaged See you then
