Episode 1: I’m a Sister, Daughter & Caregiver

Karina Kushner

Damaged Parents: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Relatively Damaged podcasts where damaged people come to learn, maybe just, maybe we're all just a little bit damaged. Someone once told me to assume 50% of the people I meet are struggling or have been damaged in some way. I would venture to say that it's more like 100% everyone is currently struggling or has struggled with something that made them feel like they aren't good enough.

They aren't capable. They are damaged. That's what we're here to talk about. In my ongoing investigation of the damage self, I want to better understand how others viewed their own damage. Maybe it's not so much about the damage, but about how one deals with it. There's a deep commitment to becoming who we are meant to be.

How do you do that? How do you find balance after a damaging experience? My hero is the damaged person. [00:01:00] The one who faced impossible challenges to come out on the other side, whole who stared directly into the eyes of adversity and with unyielding persistence found their purpose. Let's hear from another hero.

today, we're going to talk with Karena from Sacramento, California. She's 20 years old and has many roles in her life. Sister, daughter, caregiver, student, and more. She hit her head jumping on a trampoline when she was five and lost sight in her left eye, she got to wear cockeyed glasses. We'll also learn how her family uses yelling as a part of the process to find common ground and more.

Let's talk.

Interview

 What would you say was your biggest struggle as a child?

Karina Kushner: [00:01:48] My biggest struggle, probably when I was five years old, I was jumping on the trampoline and hit the back of my head really hard. And I lost [00:02:00] a lot of sight from my left side. And so since that I've been cross sided, gone to therapy and still to this day, I still have My left eye is still can barely see even with glasses, everything.

And

Damaged Parents: [00:02:15] what was the hardest part of that challenge?

Karina Kushner: [00:02:25] Probably just not seeing how everybody else sees and like, even like with glasses, I still can't see with my left eye and I feel like I just like. Put me apart from other people. And also just reading slower than others. Cause like my I, I, I don't know, like I don't track as well.

And so I read slower and yeah.

Damaged Parents: [00:02:53] Was that something you had to really work hard on and maybe what, what [00:03:00] tools

Karina Kushner: [00:03:02] did you have?

The tools I had was my therapy class. Like well, it was like a program and I had all these tools. I had these Little games. I had to focus my eyes on. And so that's the reason why I'm not cross I right now.

So it did help with my cross sidedness. And maybe if I worked harder on it, it would have helped my eyesight. But yeah, my eyes with my left eye at least is. Worse with my right. I can still see perfectly fine, but yeah. So, I mean, I can still kind of see how other people see, but just not as well.

Damaged Parents: [00:03:43] Does that frustrate you?

At times. Yeah. So explain a little bit, maybe an experience or something.

Karina Kushner: [00:03:52] Cause people I mean, I don't look any different than anyone else. So people don't really recognize me [00:04:00] as someone who have like And I problem. Cause like I don't work. I mean, right now I don't really wear glasses. So people don't really know unless I say something and when they do, they're all like, Oh, close your eyes.

Let me see what I can like what you can see and it like kind of annoying and like

so

Damaged Parents: [00:04:21] like they want you to close one eye

and yeah.

Karina Kushner: [00:04:24] Like, Oh, like how many fingers am I holding? See, like it's really blurry, but I can still see how many fingers they're holding up and

Damaged Parents: [00:04:34] that sounds frustrating.

Karina Kushner: [00:04:37] And.

Damaged Parents: [00:04:39] What do you do in those situations?

Karina Kushner: [00:04:43] I mean, was younger. I like played along with it. Cause I don't know. It didn't seem to bother me as much more like it more as it does now. Like it bothers me more, but I feel like now I don't really. Bring it up. So no one really

[00:05:00] Damaged Parents: [00:04:59] asks.

Okay. So now you just don't talk. It's kind of become part of just part of who you are.

Yeah. If I remember correctly, you're pretty much a straight a student and you're going to school to hopefully be a nurse practitioner, a PA, PA, and. How has, what did, what did you have to do to overcome the struggle? And I mean, obviously with reading, it's, that's hard. If you can't see do you think you had to work harder than others?

And, and if so, how, how did you do that?

Karina Kushner:  Yeah, I, I feel like I did have to work harder than others. Cause I feel like everybody else. They read a book really fast. And I was like how to read slower. And I, when I read like a hundred pages in a day, it take like a few hours for me to do [00:06:00] that. And I did have to like spend more time at reading than other people did.

That was

Damaged Parents: [00:06:05] harder.

Yeah. That sounds like it would be frustrating. So you probably had to spend a lot more time on homework. And, How do you think maybe is it that by slowing down that may have helped you in some ways

Karina Kushner: [00:06:27] that well, like I got in when reading a book, I remembered more details. Then other people would see that. Normally I feel like I don't remember anyone being till that way and so that did help. Okay.

Damaged Parents: [00:06:45] So it helped you to retain more information.

Karina Kushner: [00:06:53] Would

Damaged Parents: [00:06:54] how about the strengths? How do you view it now? Looking back, [00:07:00] are you, you know, is there some gratitude for having that struggle and. What have you learned? That's helped you now?

Karina Kushner: [00:07:12] I feel like everybody's different and they go through different struggles. And this was one of my struggles in life. And even though I had this struggle, I still overcame it.

Like I still got good grades. And like, for example, like my siblings. They read fine. They didn't have any eye problems and yet they got lower grades than I did. So like, yeah. I feel like anyone is capable with any kind of difficulty that they struggle with. They can overcome it

Damaged Parents: [00:07:50] and. So it sounds like you've learned to be more dedicated to schoolwork and that was important to you.

Do you think part of that was because [00:08:00] of the struggle, like you were just, I mean, how much of it was wanting to get good grades? I don't know how to ask this question. How much of it was wanting to get good grades and how much of it was just determination to overcome that? And. The internal, like I'm deter, you know, like, is that nature or is that nurture, right?

Was that something you think was inside of you or maybe something that was not.

Karina Kushner: [00:08:25] I feel like it was both like I've always seen my parents. Work hard. They are immigrants from Russia and they worked hard and they opened their own business up. And they did that. And I feel like from their example that we feel like I was determined to work hard too.

Damaged Parents: [00:08:46] So maybe having immigrant parents gave you an edge to learn how to overcome what the seemingly impossible.

Karina Kushner: [00:08:55] Yeah. I feel like that that's how a lot to do with it, [00:09:00] because I feel like on my own, I wouldn't like if I didn't have that example, I feel like I wouldn't work as hard as I, I and I was like was because my parents worked really hard to get us here.

And I feel like that has like, I have the more opportunities here too. So,

Damaged Parents: [00:09:19] so you've got immigrant parents. And how many siblings.

Karina Kushner: Seven total.

Damaged Parents: And are they, they're mostly older or younger?

Karina Kushner: [00:09:30] Mostly older. I'm the third youngest. The third youngest.

Damaged Parents: [00:09:33] Okay. So do you think that being the third youngest, like what do you think being the third youngest helped you? To learn.

Karina Kushner: [00:09:42] I feel like I was talking to a friend the other day. She was like a middle, like sort of the middle child too. And I feel like we were talking about like being more independent than the younger ones, because I do have younger [00:10:00] siblings and. They are not independent.

Damaged Parents: [00:10:05] Did, did they have, or, I mean, you obviously had a major struggle and what struggles did have your siblings had?

Karina Kushner: [00:10:16] I mean, they kind of got things handed to them. Unlike I did like. In middle school and high school. I babysat my siblings as well as work at the store and my parents a store. And I always did that and I worked hard and helped them as much as I could on the weekends when I didn't have school.

Damaged Parents: [00:10:41] Right. And your siblings did not?

Karina Kushner: [00:10:44] No, they they do work at the store sometimes, but not. Like as much as I did and they don't do as much as I did when I worked there.

Damaged Parents: [00:10:52] So maybe from that early on challenge, you gained it some insight into, I [00:11:00] don't stick to it-tiveness or persistence. Maybe I'm trying to figure out what that, I think that that's actually a really important skill, but, and there's a chance maybe you. Could have walked away without that persistence or I'm thinking your parents probably let you struggle a little bit.

Karina Kushner: [00:11:24] Yeah. They didn't hand things to me. I had to work for it because like Even, I was I think I was like 11. I babysat my siblings. They would go to work and I'd babysat them and had responsibility of cooking for them cleaning and all of that. And then once I got a little older, I was working at the store. It had that responsibility. And I had to wake up early. I had to go with my dad to the store I had at work. And and yeah, like it was, it wasn't like easy and I [00:12:00] did do it like on the weekends, like usually relax.

Damaged Parents: [00:12:03] You stepped up and would help. So your older siblings, like, is there a big gap or are they much older? Younger? Are you guys rolling close together? I mean, there's seven. That's a lot.

Karina Kushner: [00:12:17] Yeah. I mean, so my oldest is like, 33, I think.

Damaged Parents: And you're,

Karina Kushner: and and I'm 20 and my older, like an older sister, she's 22. And then I have an older brother who's 25. And so it's kind of all over the place. Some are close, some them over there

Damaged Parents: [00:12:38] and by having those. The, I mean, were your parents busy with your other siblings? Like, so you were kind of left to learn and grow on your own? Or did you feel like you had guidance to how, what did that look like?

Karina Kushner: [00:12:52] I feel like mostly I was raised by my grandma and my two older sisters, because my parents always [00:13:00] worked because they were at the store. They opened up the business when I was like three, so I wasn't mostly with them. And I don't know. I feel like I just stayed in that. Independence through that because I didn't like rely on them as much.

Damaged Parents: [00:13:16] Right. So did your siblings step in and help? How, how did that work?

Karina Kushner: [00:13:22] Yeah, like my two of my older sisters like they babysat as well as help at the store cause they were cashiers at the store too. And they helped a lot with my parents.

Damaged Parents: [00:13:35] What age? What age were you when you went to, when you first started helping at the store?

Karina Kushner: [00:13:42] I was probably I'd say 12.

Damaged Parents: Okay.

Karina Kushner: Yeah.

Damaged Parents: [00:13:47] And what was your favorite thing to do?

Karina Kushner: [00:13:50] Probably make the salads.

Damaged Parents: [00:13:51] The salads, tell me about that.

Karina Kushner: [00:13:53] One salad in specific. I always helped out in the kitchen and I was always [00:14:00] doing salad and just preparation with other foods too. So it was a grocery store we had plenty of. And so. The big salad we have, it was like a huge bowl. And I had to like cut up all of the potatoes and it was carrots and like a whole bunch of other stuff.

And I had it mix it all myself. I had to put all the the seasoning and everything is so like, I was doing all that all my by myself as well as putting them in the containers. And when them, I had, I did that whole process

Damaged Parents: [00:14:34] at the age of 12. Oh, wow. So is that still your favorite salad today?

Karina Kushner: [00:14:40] Yeah and I haven't had it in a while. Gotta grab me some of that.

Damaged Parents: [00:14:48] So you [00:15:00] overcame this challenge of struggling to see and you were young. What about school? Like, were you picked on, did you have to wear special glasses or like tools to. Train your eyes. What was that like?

Karina Kushner: [00:15:13] I feel like in school, thank God. I wasn't bullied at all. No, everybody, I don't know. They just accepted me and, but I did have to wear thicker glasses. Like on my left side and my glasses would like tilt.

Damaged Parents: [00:15:31] Oh no. So they were like, literally cockeyed, Oh dear. So emotionally, like from an emotional perspective, what would you say was the most important lesson? From, from making it through that challenge?

Karina Kushner: [00:15:50] I feel like just having that independence and working hard growing and living through that experience [00:16:00] just helped me to be determined and. I dunno, it just made me different than everybody else. And I'm also Christian and you're supposed to be different than everybody else too, Okay because you're not supposed to follow the worldly things in life. You're supposed to be looking at God, focusing on him. And I feel like, sort of, that's kind of what I felt going through. Alright.

Damaged Parents: [00:16:30] So you looked at it as being tempered if you will in fire, right. Or there is that Chinese? I don't think it's proper, but the story about the, the broken cup for instance, you know, so if something, if a dish breaks China, they repair it with, with gold. And because it's repaired with that gold, it becomes more valuable. So it sounds to me like your perspective [00:17:00] is I'm more valuable or I have more value because of that challenge than had I not had that challenge. So if you were able to go back in time and tell your young self anything you could tell them during that struggle, what would you, what would you say.

Karina Kushner: [00:17:19] Probably just don't care, whatever anybody else thinks, just focus on your goal and keep striving and nice.

Damaged Parents: [00:17:30] So you're a caregiver. And what made you decide to get into that field?

Karina Kushner: [00:17:37] Well, I mean, I was like after high school, I was just trying to find a job because I wanted to branch out on my own and not just work for my parents. I wanted to do something on my own where I can actually. Have a paycheck and be an adult. [00:18:00] And I was just looking for a job, any job, really? And I came upon a caregiver and I'm like, huh, that's interesting. Cause I've always wanted to be in the medical field. And so I'm like, Hm, a care caregiver would get like my dip my toes in a little bit to the medical field. And then, so I'm like, why not, you know, it, it won't hurt. And so I did do an application and I got an interview and here I am two years later.

Damaged Parents: [00:18:31] Tell us a little bit about the types of people you've gotten to care for.

Karina Kushner: [00:18:35] Oh, there's been many, many different times. I've had definitely some tough clients that, but they were always so sweet to me. I feel like, I don't know why. Like I had a one in a wheelchair who was independent in his own way by. He was able to drive his own van. Cause there was like this special, it was [00:19:00] like the special van, which was pretty cool. And he had he needed help with the showers. He needed a lot of assistance with like cooking and whatever else he needed help with like soaking his feet for instance. Cause he wasn't able to walk and he had many struggles and I helped him out with that and I've had other. Clients with dementia with Alzheimers, which was hard. Definitely took a lot of patients. Yeah. I feel like this job really grown my patience with others.

Damaged Parents: [00:19:36] What about, so the gentleman in the wheelchair, it sounds like it was important for him to, I think the word I'll use is have his dignity. So to at least try and do. And how do you as a caregiver and someone who genuinely wants to help others, how do you balance giving someone their dignity and [00:20:00] also letting them struggle?

Karina Kushner: [00:20:02] I feel like I let my clients do as much as they possibly can and if they do need assistance, obviously I will help them out. But I feel like the more that they can do on their own, the better.

Damaged Parents: [00:20:16] So, what does that look like though? As far as like what's happening inside of you, that you're able to give them that room to give them the room to struggle.

Karina Kushner: [00:20:27] I feel like a, it definitely was something to get used to because I never been in like, you know, caring for other people. I only worked in a grocery store I feel like, cause I know I struggled. With certain things. And I feel like people need that struggle in order to overcome whatever they're doing. Like to overcome what, like what's the word I'm looking for just to be independent. So I feel like [00:21:00] just seeing, like, for instance, they're eating. Soup or something to have them at least try and grab this, try to put it in their mouth.

And if they can't, I will help them. But like if they spill that's okay, because it's not about them spilling it. It's about them trying to eat on their own and having, just gaining that independence, because I feel like a lot of caregivers just try to do it for them. And I've seen that. And I'm like, they should be doing it on their own. They at least try doing it on their own. Maybe they can't and you can help them with that. But I I've worked in a facility and I see people just doing it for them when they aren't capable of doing it themselves. And I like, I don't know. I just see that. And I'm like, that's not right. Like, it shouldn't be like that they should be doing as much as they possibly can

[00:22:00] Damaged Parents: [00:22:00] Because when they do as much as they possibly can. They feel more of a person. They like, they get the. The human experience, they get to be human instead of basically like a adult or a thing is, so how do you explain that to other caregivers? How do they, how do you even get to that point? Where, you know, a lot of people I think get into caregiving too. To help. And sometimes maybe they overwhelm, like you were saying. And I guess the question I'm getting at is what do you recognize in the patient, the patient or client? I'm not sure what you call them in your mind. What do you notice in yourself or in them? What do you notice in the client? What are the differences that you notice when a client is getting too much help and when they're fighting, like when they, when they still get [00:23:00] to try and be as whole as they can be, what's I guess what's the emotional difference that you recognize?

Karina Kushner: [00:23:06] I feel like what I've recognized if, if they have it done for them, like majority of the stuff that they aren't capable of doing on their own, I feel like they just give up and they don't want to fight and move forward.

Damaged Parents: [00:23:20] When you say give up, what do you mean by give up,

Karina Kushner: [00:23:24] like, give up on doing things themselves, give up on. Trying to be normal on doing by themselves, having that ability and, you know, being like everybody else's yeah, they do have like a disability or a mental issue, but they are still human.

Damaged Parents: [00:23:48] Yeah. So I think like, I really it's really, I heard you say the word normal and what came to mind is. What is normal.  And, and I think what maybe you were trying to say is [00:24:00] that I don't think the word was normal. I think it was human.

Karina Kushner: Yeah, I think it was like...,I was like I said, normal, but I'm like, that's probably not the right word.

Damaged Parents: [00:24:08] And I think though, that that's like a, that that's actually a huge problem in society is in how we talk about disability. And, and because. If everyone is, is damaged in some way, shape or form, you know? And, and one of my friends said to me a long time ago, no child escapes, childhood unscathed. So if no child escapes childhood unscathed, then aren't, we all damaged in some way. You know, but how do you keep the human. Keeping that humanity is so important. And when we use, I think as a society, use the word normal to describe everyone else, if you will, which from a disabled perspective, that means everyone else is capable and I'm not. And that also means maybe I'm not good enough because I will never be like them, [00:25:00] even though I'm maybe I'm just different. And I don't know how, how to help change that perspective.

Karina Kushner: [00:25:09] Yeah. I feel like it's just very stereotypical. Yeah. The word normal is not the right word. Cause yeah, we all, we all go through struggles in our own ways. We're human. We go through different things. We may not look the same as someone else. We may not. Sound the same. We may not do the same things as other people, but we're all human. That's the new thing.

Damaged Parents: [00:25:34] And how would you suggest that other people or all of us, if you will start to recognize that we're similar and different at the same time,

Karina Kushner: [00:25:49] can you repeat that?

Damaged Parents: [00:25:50] So we're all human, which means we're all similar. And yet we're also very different. So, if you [00:26:00] were to have a voice in the world and you wanted to try and explain that to someone else, how would you, what would you say?

Karina Kushner: [00:26:09] I feel like, well, from a Christian point of view, I feel like we're all created by the same. God And we, yes, we are all different, but we're all the same. We all have. I'm not sure how to word this.

Damaged Parents: [00:26:25] Okay. I have a thought maybe one of the big problems they had with CGI was making the ocean. And I think it was talked about in Mauana and. The beauty of the ocean was not in perfect waves, but in the immense difference of each small inflection on the surface and without all of those different, without all those quote unquote imperf, what some people might call imperfections, [00:27:00] but with all, all those different types of waves and the different ways the wind blew it would no longer be the ocean, it would be symmetrical. And what, what I think they were finding was that when it looked symmetrical, it wasn't believable. So I think in some ways, differences are embedded in our world, and I'm not sure where we got the idea that as humans, we need to be the same. And if we're not the same and we don't fit, then we're wrong. I think it might be easier. Like you said, your, your inability to see out of your one eye is not a visible disability per se. So walking around in the world, going shopping people don't, it's not noticeable. And yet you still had this tremendous struggle to learn how to read, to learn how to [00:28:00] process too it sounds like even till this day, doing homework is probably a laborious task for you. What could be done I guess, is a better question to help society as a whole see the importance of differences and not the sick bad, wrong side of differences.

Karina Kushner: [00:28:23] Yeah. I feel like a lot of people despise people who are different than them and like want everybody to be just like them, but this is not a perfect world. Nobody's perfect. In this world. We all have our struggles. We're all different because yeah, like we all believe the same though. If you think about it, we all believe the same and we should be United and overcome those differences in our lives. Yeah. We may not look the same. We may not act the same. [00:29:00] But we're all just humans, just trying to get through life and going through our own struggles.

Damaged Parents: [00:29:05]  How do you, you know, we see online arguments and debates and people taking sides and, and not just taking sides, but, but. Angrily taking sides and not having a discussion, but wanting another person to be right. So we've got this group of people, right. That's having these discussions. And then, and I also hear what you're saying now about being United. And so when I hear United, I also think similar, maybe the best question is how could we get people to be United in their differences and maybe celebrate them? How, how does that, how do you get from. From here to there because so many people in today's world are, I'm not going to talk politics with you because if I talk politics with you, we're just going to get in a fight and I'm going to hate you.

Karina Kushner: [00:30:00] Yeah. I [00:30:00] feel like people tend to stay on their side of the argument and not look what the other side has to offer, what their perspective is in their argument. I feel like. A lot of people are just like one sided in their argument and not understand why. Why in the world, someone else has the other, the opposite statement. Like they don't see the other side's perspective. And I feel like if we saw each other's perspective and saw each other's argument, we would grow more. Be more United like that because, and respect other people's opinions, respect what they have to their side of the argument as well. You may still not agree with them, but at least respect it. And I feel like that's a way you could stay united.

Damaged Parents: [00:30:54] So I think what I'm hearing you say is, listen, not to change [00:31:00] your mind, but to be open to possibility. And if. Someone is certain there, right? How do you do that? Is that person right? Let's say you're that person. And you are certain, you were right about how the world should be viewed and someone else is not. How do you approach that conversation?

Karina Kushner: [00:31:25] I feel like the best thing is to listen. I feel like a lot of people don't, listen to other people. I feel like they just want them to be heard. They want their site to be heard and sometimes you've just got to listen to them.

Damaged Parents: [00:31:39] Okay. So I think I hear two problems there. One side just wants to be heard and the other one is just forced to listen. Hmm. So if both sides are coming from, well, I want to be heard and I have to listen because they're not going to stop talking until I listen, but I'm not listening for understanding how do [00:32:00] we get to the next step? How do we get to I'm going to listen, because I'm sure there's wisdom in what you have to say. And not because I have to what I mean, what if someone's just coming at me like, Hey, You got to believe this. And inside me what's happening is I'm backpedaling because I'm actually starting to feel attacked. So how do I stay engaged and hear them? Or what do you do when, when you're feeling attacked? Whether, I mean, cause this is the same in any relationship, right? Family or in the world, you know? Cause people are gonna, it's going to happen. How do you stay engaged?  

Karina Kushner: [00:32:42] I feel like when I am feeling attacked, I just want to leave and not be in the presence of that person. Who's I feel like isn't talking to me and hopefully they will think about like why they are acting the way they are. [00:33:00] Like it. If someone is attacking you, you don't want to be there. You don't want to feel attacked. I feel like the best thing is to just walk away by like giving them a minute, not like walking away, just mocking away, but like giving them a minute to rethink what they're saying, rethink like what they're doing,

Damaged Parents: [00:33:19] But they're so passionate they can't. So now what. You're saying you have to believe them. They are right. They know they're right. And walking away or giving them a minute. They're still you're right. And you also said, you've got, we've got to listen. So how do you do that? When you're flooded with emotion because you don't feel like you get to have your voice.

Karina Kushner: [00:33:50] I feel like when I am, flooded with emotion, I try not to think about it when I am frustrated with the person that is talking to [00:34:00] me and I have to listen. I have to be there. I feel like I focus on something else and try not to let the emotions get the best of me.

What do you mean by that?

Damaged Parents: [00:34:10] Sorry, what do you mean by not by focus on something else?

Karina Kushner: [00:34:15] Something around the room and try not to focus on them because then my emotions will get the best and I want to yell back, not the best idea.

Damaged Parents: [00:34:28] Like. So your way of protecting yourself right now is to be like, well, okay, so I'll say here. But I'm not going to unfocus. I'm not going to listen because I'm forced to listen. So I'm trying to figure out what, what would happen if, if, if you said, you know, I can't do that right now. I can't hear you. When you're yelling at me. What would, what do you think might happen then?

Karina Kushner: [00:34:54] I feel like when, I mean, honestly, just tell them, I can't hear [00:35:00] you when you're yelling at me. I feel like that's the only way it will make me some people may not, but hopefully they will be like, Oh, and think about like what they were doing.

Damaged Parents: [00:35:12] Do you think it's helpful to say what the, what the feelings are that's going on inside of you? When you're yelling at me, I can't hear you. And I start feeling. Angry. Like I want to dig in my heels and go the other way. Do you think that's helpful in that people are able to shift in that or what?

Karina Kushner: [00:35:34] I mean, I guess it really just depends on the person. Some people will be like, Oh, like I have no idea and then they would stop. But other people don't care and there's no winning or no, like getting your voice heard in those kinds of situations.

Damaged Parents: [00:35:52] So, do you, at that point, do you just kind of give up on being heard?

Karina Kushner: [00:35:59] I mean, I [00:36:00] probably try as much as I can to be heard, but if it's not working. No. Like, I feel like what's the point. If they're not being heard there, there's no point in talking to the person because you're not going to be heard.

Damaged Parents: [00:36:15] Right. So what I mean, what happens in like your family, if, when there's conflict like that, how does, how does that get worked out in your family?

Karina Kushner: [00:36:25] Probably yelling.

Damaged Parents: [00:36:30] So then everybody yells at each other. Do they really hear it though? Do they really try to understand what's happening?

Karina Kushner: [00:36:35] not. I mean, I feel like really when phones have set up for someone else, they yell and. And then they leave to go to their room, calm down, and then come Probably back and talk to them

Damaged Parents: [00:36:47].Okay. So in your family, there's a process. We getting angry at each [00:37:00] other, yell and scream, go to the room, come back and can talk about it and, and do things usually get solved that way.

Karina Kushner: [00:37:10] For the most part, I guess,

Damaged Parents: [00:37:12] like, are you able to find common ground or see, like, do you think that in your family you're able to see the other person's perspective?

Karina Kushner: [00:37:21] I mean, I feel like for the most part, yes. Like when they talk to you, you're like, Oh, okay that's why you felt that way,

Damaged Parents: [00:37:34] but if you've got to get there first sounds like it takes cooling off a cooling off period. And I mean, how normal is it? I mean, do you feel, I guess in your family, it sounds like, you know, that they are gonna. Come back and have a conversation with you. Do that. What amount of safety does that give you and [00:38:00] feeling free to voice your opinions?

Karina Kushner: [00:38:04] I mean, definitely. Yeah. At the moment when they're yelling, definitely you won't get your feelings heard, but I feel like once they're talking and you voice your opinions, I feel like for the most part it is heard and. Try and do better.

Damaged Parents: [00:38:18] So, you know, I mean, it just comes back to knowing that you can come back and have that conversation, even I'm sure there are some things that you just, just don't agree with, right?

Karina Kushner: Yeah.

Damaged Parents: And how do you agree to disagree?

Karina Kushner: [00:38:35] I feel like just respecting their. Perspective and their decision on what they do and how they do it. Like her example I wanted a car and my dad didn't want to get it or something. And he starts yelling at me and then goes away, comes back and. He's like, Oh, sorry. I had a rough [00:39:00] day at work. That's why I felt that way. You're like, okay, that's understandable. We all have tough times. We all go through different situations. And I feel like that way, their perspective is heard, but you may not feel the same way. You're like, Oh, like, you know, it's not about me. Like, why are you yelling at me for this? When it has nothing to do with me, but you still understand there. So I know that maybe you don't feel the same way, but you still understand and respect their perspective.

Damaged Parents: [00:39:32] Right? So respecting and understanding. Doesn't mean, what I'm, what I'm hearing from you is respecting and understanding does not mean that I have to agree and agreeing doesn't have to do with whether or not someone cares about me because my, my voice is important because difference is important. So like, I think what we've really been talking about a lot is how difference makes the world a better [00:40:00] place. And the question becomes again, you know, just to kind of dial it back to what we kind of started this portion of the conversation about is how do we unite and be different. How does that work? So if the, if you could leave anyone, leave everyone with thought on your last thought on what you want the world to know.

Karina Kushner: [00:40:23] I feel like the last thought that I want people to know is. That. Yes, we are all different. We all go through different things. We all struggle have different experiences, but through that we can stay United and respect other people's perspectives and what they have to say and listen to them. And you may not have to agree with it, but at least listen to them and respect them. I feel like that's how we can stay united

Damaged Parents: [00:40:53] And find value in those differences. Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing your story with me today. I really appreciate [00:41:00] it. And we'll chat

soon.

Closing

Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Relatively Damaged by Damaged Parents. We really enjoyed talking to Karina about how she overcame her head injury and losing vision in her left eye. We especially liked it when she said yes. Cockeyed and found out we aren't the only family that uses yelling to solve problems to unite with other damaged people.

Connect with us on Facebook. Look for damaged parents. This podcast was sponsored in part by arches audio. We'll be here next week. Still Relatively Damaged. See you then.