Episode 70: With the End in Mind

Maureen Kures

Maureen Kures is the CEO and Founder of www.RadiantMourning.com. She's on a mission to guide one million families to decide, document, and discuss their final chapter plans to bring peace for those who live on. As an oncology, hospice, and ICU nurse for 35 years, she was privileged to provide end-of-life care for many. She saw the devastation that occurred when families hadn’t had candid conversations with their family members. Now she facilitates those conversations with families around the world and leads virtual group workshops to replace drama, trauma and chaos with calm, ease, and peace.

Social media and contact information: https://www.facebook.com/radiantmourning
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https://www.linkedin.com/in/maureen-kures-48377126/
https://twitter.com/MourningRadiant

Additional information you want us to know: I'd love to offer complimentary 20-30 minute chats with anyone who has questions about how to start the conversation. My website is www.radiantmourning.com. Click on Let's Connect and I will get them scheduled.

Podcast Transcript:

Damaged Parents: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Relatively Damaged Podcast by Damaged Parents. Where dying, spiritual lost people come to learn. Maybe. Just maybe we're all a little bit damaged

Someone once told me it's safe to assume 50% of the people I meet are struggling and feel wounded in some way. I would venture to say it's closer to 100%.

Every one of us is either currently struggling or has struggled with something that made us feel less than. Like we aren't good enough. We aren't capable. We are relatively damaged. And that's what we're here to talk about. In my ongoing investigation of the damage self, I want to better understand how others view their own challenges.

Maybe it's not so much about the damage, maybe it's about our perception and how we deal with it. There is a deep commitment to becoming who we are meant to be. How do you do that? How do you find balance after a damaging experience? My hero is the damaged person. The one who faces seemingly insurmountable odds to come out on the other side, whole.

Those who stared directly into the face of adversity with unyielding persistence to discover their purpose. These are the people who inspire me to be more fully me. Not in spite of my trials, but because of them. Let's hear from another hero. Today's topic includes sensitive material, which may not be appropriate for children. This podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended as advice. The opinions expressed here were strictly those of the person who gave them.

Today, we're going to talk with Maureen Kures. She has many roles in her life, wife, mother, sister, daughter, and more. We'll talk about how she learned to take the fear out of talking about dying let's talk

Welcome back to Relatively Damaged by Damaged Parents today. We've got Maureen Kures RN. She is also the CEO of Radiant Mourning. Mourning as in mourning loss of our family and friends, she's on a mission to guide families, to decide document and discuss their final chapter plans, to bring peace to those who live on now. She facilitates family conversations and leads virtual group workshops to replace drama, trauma, and chaos with calm, ease, and peace Maureen I'm so glad you're here today.

Maureen Kures: [00:02:29] Well, thank you so much for having me, Angela.

Damaged Parents: [00:02:32] You've got such a neat calming spirit about you. And I am wondering was that natural?

Maureen Kures: [00:02:41] No, my husband and sons will tell you I have a fiery Irish temper, but it doesn't come out very often. They really have to push me.

Damaged Parents: [00:02:50] Right, right. But I'm thinking it was something you learned along the way. I mean, because in order my perspective in order to work with the idea of potential loss and then maybe even coaching people through loss that, you had your own journey where you were able to find this purpose and peace that you seem to emulate.

Maureen Kures: [00:03:12] You know my journey for this kind of work and purpose really started in my young adulthood. My first nursing job, I graduated from nursing school and the only job that I could get at the time was on an oncology unit. And I thought, oh my gosh, working with dying people, I don't want to do that. Let me get out of here as fast as I can, because I wanted to be a flight nurse.

I wanted to take trauma patients and helicopters and all this. But what I didn't know is that I would just fall in love with end of life. I would fall in love with my patients and their families and the process. And I realized that it wasn't scary. Like I thought it was, and there was a lot of joy.

There's a lot of humor. There's a lot of sadness and grief too, but that's part of the journey and it really impacted who I was and who I became.

Damaged Parents: [00:04:05] Now did you have like , this feeling of Ooh, at some point? Oh my goodness. I just found my purpose.

Maureen Kures: [00:04:13] I really did. I like I said, my family, we didn't talk about death. We didn't talk. I remember my grandfather died when I was young, but we didn't talk about it a lot. I had a cousin that was killed in a plane crash when I was in high school and I remember crying people, crying, sadness. You know his, his service, but we didn't talk about it a lot.

We didn't talk about his life. And so I was afraid with this job, but there were, there was really no nursing jobs. When I graduated, I was the second in my class to get a job. Some people didn't get one for six months. So I took it thinking I would get this, but. I just felt like these patients of mine just fill me up with joy and hope and so much that yeah, it really became my purpose and calling and it was them.

I can tell you, I'm still in touch with some of the children of the people. I took care of 35 years ago because they just meant so much to me.

Damaged Parents: [00:05:06] That's really beautiful because I think I would be like you and shy away from the pain of loss and so I am wondering, gosh, I'm wondering what you have learned or what are some of the neatest things you've learned from those patients before they passed on.

Maureen Kures: [00:05:25] I've learned that most of them are not afraid. Most of them are more afraid of being in pain. Most of them at least. If you give yourself the open heart to explore, do the life review, look and find the purpose of meaning in your life. Most people do die a peaceful death. And that was really surprising to me because I always thought it would be painful.

It will be awful. And, um, but I've learned so much from them that I had one man who had a full cardiac arrest. I was the nurse taking care of him. And this is what I started believing in the after that people come back they see something and they come back, he went into full cardiac arrest.

We had to work on him. He was in the ICU and they got his heart beating. Didn't have to put a ventilator. You put him on a ventilator, you know, the breathing tube down. But he didn't wake up and he had a 30 year old daughter and this man was 82. And it's a long story. But later in the day she was gone.

I had made her go home to see her two little girls and have dinner. And I promised I would stay until she got back. It didn't matter what time, but she'd wanted me to put his dinner tray across his table in case he woke up and was, and he did wake up. I thought, oh, he's not gonna wake up, you know, um, from my experience.

But he did. And he asked me. To tell him his name and He said, I can't be that person because I died this morning and he told me exactly what I did in the code blue, they call it a code during the resuscitation process. And he told me exactly what the resident that had admitted him the night before, because we were the only two, he really remembered, but he told me he was seeing his wife.

And like trying to get through this door to her and he just couldn't get through. And you know, so I was able to ask him questions, like, did it hurt while we were pressing on your chest? And he said, no, I just was up above watching you and observing, but it didn't hurt at all. So that gave me great peace of mind because,  It hurts after, you're bruised and sore or cracked ribs, but, he said, at the time it didn't hurt. He felt a little achy that day. But so that was great peace of mind that it doesn't have to be, you know, it's not as painful as we think.

Damaged Parents: [00:07:38] Yeah, you're just making me think of when my grandmother passed and there were those of us in the room and  I felt like there was this rush of energy and then this peace

Maureen Kures: [00:07:49] Yes,

Damaged Parents: [00:07:50] because I had, was I there when my uncle died, I don't remember, but it was very much. And I thought to myself, oh, this is just woo-hoo, you know, like, did you ever have to argue your logical versus your spiritual self?

Maureen Kures: [00:08:07] Yes. You know, like until that moment with that man, when he told me exactly what happened and everything, I was thinking, oh yeah, this near death experience, that's all too woo-hoo for me. And then I became like, wow, this is real. This is real. And you just said how there was a sort of a rush of energy and then peacefulness that's so often how it is.

And I think that people are afraid of death because we don't talk about it and we don't see it. We don't see death very often in our society anymore. So people we're afraid of what we don't know, just like I was terrified of what I didn't know when I got that first job.

Damaged Parents: [00:08:45] Okay. Now I've got to ask. So more people describe it like that, a rush of energy and then peace

Maureen Kures: [00:08:51] There's a lot, it's funny that when you were saying that when my dad died, my mom had not wanted to leave his side for days. And my parents are in California and I'm up here in Seattle and I had come down cause my dad was really, I just been there, flew back, flew back down, but We had a caregiver.

I convinced my mom to just get a caregiver during the night. And she was finally went to bed cause she was so exhausted, but my dad died while she was asleep. And oftentimes people wait until their loved ones, leave the room or that's not uncommon either. But um, my mom said, she felt like right before I came in to tell her that he had died.

She felt this. Just great heat wave this, like this swoosh of heat, go through her and to the point where she had to open the window over her bed. So she always felt like it was my dad's spirit coming through because it was right at the time that he was dying. So when you say that yeah, it just reminded me of my dad's experience.

Damaged Parents: [00:09:50] Now you did speak of having to have a caregiver to help to help mom and dad. What are some things, because I do want to get into facilitating those family conversations and the fears around those, but on the way to that death, that caregivers are many times involved because these physical bodies we have do not stay. I mean, they're just, they'd fall apart.

Maureen Kures: [00:10:14] Yes, they do. And I was back up in Seattle. I'd been here for a day when I was at work. And by the time I went to lunch, there were 11 calls between my mom and my sister. And my dad was a large man. He's like six foot four and just a large guy. And. He was in incontinent and they couldn't move him to change him.

And even though I had finally convinced them to get him on hospice, it was really my dad saying I need it now because he and I had had many conversations about it. My mom resisted, but they would not call hospice. Although hospice is not with you 24 hours a day. People think that, but I had told her, you must get a caregiver until I can get down there tomorrow.

You must have a caregiver with you, someone that can, you know, my brother had to leave work and I talked them through what to do to change his bed and everything. But you need to have someone that's skilled in this, and that knows how to guide you. And I'm so grateful for the beautiful young man that was sent to my parents because my mom who resisted anyone coming into her home, felt safe with this young man.

And he was so kind and so compassionate and efficient and um, skilled at what he did. But the most he gave my mom comfort and safety to the comfort and safety for her to leave my dad so she could sleep. So you know, caregivers are little angels on earth.

Damaged Parents: [00:11:33] Yeah

Maureen Kures: [00:11:33] But you have to find the right caregivers.

Damaged Parents: [00:11:35] Exactly. Yeah. And I think a lot of people just think they've got to deal with what they get and just because there are those who are called to be caregivers, and then there are those that just do it as a job as my perception. And what my experience has been.

And I think that there is a real difference between the ones that are called and the ones who aren't and you can see it. And so what are the tips you give families to make sure that they're, I guess, advocating for themselves, but how do you, what do you do or how do you coach families on that?

Maureen Kures: [00:12:12] Well, first of all, I, in fact, I just went through this with a client. I encouraged them to get a caregiver. They had to go through three before they found one. And so many times, at least this is what I find sometimes with our elderly population, they think, oh, this is the caregiver.

So I have to keep them, but it wasn't a good fit. And. I said, first of all, you have to trust them. You have to feel safe with them because really when you need a caregiver, you're at your most vulnerable so often, and if you don't feel safe and you don't trust them, then they're not the right person for you.

And So we went through three, two other caregivers, before, they found one that they. Just really love and has been doing such a fabulous job for them now, but they only needed intermittent care giving. They don't need 24/7 but I think the biggest thing is that you trust them and that you feel safe with them.

That's my take on it

Damaged Parents: [00:13:08] yeah.

Maureen Kures: [00:13:09] You can teach them what you need them to do, but you can't teach them to be empathetic, good people.

Damaged Parents: [00:13:16] Right. So it sounds like the other thing that I'm hearing you say is if it's not a good fit, it's okay to say, no, this is not a good fit. We need a different person,

right. Because

there's more components to just the task is also what I heard you say. Like they can do the task, but if you're not, connected on a deeper level and there's power struggles or disrespect, then it needs to stop cause it'll just be bad.

Maureen Kures: [00:13:44] This one patient or client of mine, her daughter was over and heard the caregiver yelling at her mother yelling at her mother and her mother is in early phases of dementia. And I'm like, no, no, no, no she wasn't yelling because her mother's hard of hearing. She was yelling in anger at her mother and she stepped in and said, I think it's time for you to leave right now.

Luckily she was there and heard and witnessed that. But how often does that happen? So that's why I said you must feel safe with them.

Damaged Parents: [00:14:14] Yeah. And I would think it would be really important with the elderly who have dementia or Alzheimer's and you know how, if someone's not there and there is mistreatment with caregiver, what are some signs they can look for?

Maureen Kures: [00:14:31] You know I think that Just stress in there more stress than normal in their parent or their loved one, the person that they care about, because I say parent or family, families are those we choose to be to not just our biological families, but I think looking in how they react and how they're interacting with the caregiver, if there's stress and there's not that, calm you can tell a sense of trust.

You can tell when someone is relaxed and trusting of the person, but if they're stressed and sometimes that comes with dementia, So dementia can be very challenging in that way, but I think, there's always those signs that they're stressed and don't trust them. with caregivers. Dementia can be a tricky one because they don't trust them in the beginning anyway, because it's something new and it's hard. Just follow your gut.

Damaged Parents: [00:15:25] yeah, I was gonna ask, would it be one of those things where you just really have to listen to your heart and do a gut check

Maureen Kures: [00:15:32] Yes.

Damaged Parents: [00:15:33] And go from there? Because I would think. Maybe I would notice more health problems. if my elderly family member is stressed,

Maureen Kures: [00:15:42] Yes,

Damaged Parents: [00:15:43] Then you know, maybe more bladder infections or, cause I think that happens a lot as they get older, right?

Maureen Kures: [00:15:50] It does happen a lot as they get older. And yes, bladder infections could be caused by stress. I don't know if that would always be a sign that there's mistreatment by the caregivers, because that can happen in the best of times with the elderly. But I think that, yeah. if they have differences in their eating patterns suddenly there's I think that it's just, that's a tricky one to know what exactly to look for.

My aunt. who had ended up in an adult family home. She was totally stressed, but her caregivers were the most loving people. They just loved on her and got her through that stressful part where she was stressed and anxious all the time to the point where she became very content and felt safe with them, but it took time.

So that's why I say it's not always just the first time you see them acting stressed because that's normal. Let's face it. Anytime a new person comes into our lives. It can be stressful, but I'm looking for the signs of fear, fear, stress you know, if they seem afraid in the person's presence.

Damaged Parents: [00:16:54] Right. And it sounds like maybe it would be really important to have a sense that you and the caregiver on the same team.

Maureen Kures: [00:17:01] Yes. That's so important. You have the ability to communicate well with the caregiver, if your parent can't or if your loved one can't or if your child can't, whoever is in need of the caregiver, that there's a good communication. Say, you want,   to go get your hair done?

If you're your Your loved one's primary caregiver. And you want to go out to get your haircut and you have the caregiver there and you ask her to give your mom or your daughter or your friend a manicure while you're gone, you know, did that get done? And you know now, if mom was

incontinent and things that she had to do, other things that's understandable, but you know, just that, the little things that, that you asked them to do that they're following through with things like that, those are things to look forward to.

Damaged Parents: [00:17:44] Sounds like what you're really speaking to is caregivers recognizing that, although there's this disability now in the physical body that these people on, going through to the end of life are still very much human and it's more than what the CMS guidelines say. The CMS guidelines.

Basically when I read over them, it's like, I could be treated simply like an animal bathe dress, and the true caregiver, I think takes says, okay. Yes, those are great things and they're necessary and you're human. And so these little things that aren't in the guidelines are actually really important to the experience of life.

Maureen Kures: [00:18:29] Yes. To treat one with human dignity till the end and respect so important.

Damaged Parents: [00:18:37] Yeah, it's hard because those guidelines could be looked at as I've had companies look at them as maximums and more often than not, they're seen as minimums, but man, those companies that look at them as a maximum. I I think it's unfortunate because I think someone might die quicker when they're not viewed as a human.

Maureen Kures: [00:18:58] Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. That's why I was saying how my aunt is this family in that ran the adult family home. They saw her for the beautiful human beings. She was not just a resident in their, home. Another person that's paying the money and I would drop by unannounced. And they were just loving on all of their residents there.

It was such a home filled with love and support and watching these people feel safe and content there, despite the fact that most of them were in later stages of dementia, but the fact that they were treated with human dignity, where my aunt had been in another adult family home, where it was not that way, it was very much, they were just people, they were residents to be taken care of and not nurtured.

Like, like she was. In the second house you went to.

Damaged Parents: [00:19:54] Yeah. So I think that being able to recognize the difference between places and what that might look like. I think you've given a help to give a really great description of what that the differences in that

Maureen Kures: [00:20:09] I think you just, like you were saying, go with your heart, go with your gut. If you feel it's not right. And it most likely isn't even if it is, and you err on the side of caution, that's always better than not.

Damaged Parents: [00:20:20] Yeah. And it might, it sounds like that might mean going to a couple of different places, which can also be stressful too. So how does a family help manage that for their loved one? Right?

Maureen Kures: [00:20:31] if they have to place them

Damaged Parents: [00:20:33] Right. If they have to place them or, I mean, think having a new person come into the home too, is always stressful for a patient.

Maureen Kures: [00:20:40] Well there, first of all, I'd researched the home care agencies that. I would interview a few and I would make sure that they have high reviews and that you connect with their administrators or the people that you meet with. If you feel that it's just business as usual. That's probably not the right fit.

If one has to place one of their loved ones into a residential community, they're called senior care advisors that help people find the right place. They help people. They know pretty much all the residential communities in an area. This just happened with someone that I was working with, we connected with a residential, with a senior advisor and he got this gentleman into a lovely residential community.

He was sound mind. He just couldn't live on his own anymore. And he did not have family nearby and he didn't want to leave the area. So he was resistant to the residential community, but this senior advisor placement advisor found him the perfect place and he is thriving there. So I think it's all in who you work with.

And if they take the time to get to know you. Your personality, what your needs are, what your wants are. And even when there's resistance, the man that worked with his elderly gentlemen was so patient and just figured him out and it was through his patience and kindness and advocacy for him to get into a place that fit his needs, that he's now just thriving.

Damaged Parents: [00:22:13] Oh, that's beautiful. I love that. So what are some of these conversations like outside of caregiving? I mean, it seems like there's even more to the end of life of these conversations. What are some of the topics that, that you need to talk about? What are some of those things?

Maureen Kures: [00:22:30] First of all, you have to start with figuring out your wishes and the easiest way to do that, to get your parents or other loved ones, people that you care about siblings, friends to do it is to do it yourself. Get your advanced directives in order. Figure out. What are your wishes if something were to happen?

Because let's face it, things happen every day is the, what ifs in life that we need to prepare for. What if I was in that accident and couldn't speak for myself, who do I trust to be that person that would speak on my behalf, medically. What would I want done if this scenario happened or that scenario happen?

So to really figure out what's a good day for you, what's living a good day and what medical treatment you would want? It was funny. I was just having this conversation Well, so many people think living a good day, they have to be completely active, able to take care of themselves.

And that's not. And a woman that I know she was asking me these questions as she was filling hers out. And she's like Maureen. As long as I can communicate with my family, I wouldn't care being in a wheelchair. And I said, that's right. We can live very good days, not being mobile and active.

And she said, all I want to do is be able to communicate at, with those that I love and those that I care about. And I said, that is a beautiful thing. And put that in the more you can be descriptive in your advanced directives living will the more. You give a roadmap to your family to follow, or to those that matter to you, that they're making these decisions, your, your doctors.

So the conversations, then once you get all your ducks in a row, so to speak, then you could go to your family. Then you can call them, or your loved ones, your people that mattered to you and say, I want to have you all over for cake and coffee, or, pizza and beer or whatever.

And I want. It's important for me to talk to you about what I would want if something happened to me, usually when we're diagnosed with a life limiting illness like cancer, or in stage heart disease, we have more time to prepare our families, but people still, even with time, they don't have these candid conversations that change the outcome of their end of life journey.

Damaged Parents: [00:24:45] Right. And it really can happen in just a moment.

Maureen Kures: [00:24:49] It can happen in the blink of an eye. You know, You're heading to work and in an accident and you're hospitalized, unable to speak for yourself, or let's just look at COVID. How many people never expected to have to leave their family members at a hospital. Unable to be with them. I mean, that's what broke my heart is that it's like, no this can't be happening, but those people that ended up on ventilators that maybe it would have been so much better if they had had these types of conversations before and they could have ended up dying at home with those they love surrounding them rather than alone in a hospital, on a ventilator.

Damaged Parents: [00:25:34] Yeah, that breaks my heart because I couldn't imagine. That and not being able to say goodbye. There's something to the process.

Maureen Kures: [00:25:44] Yeah. I have a someone I had worked with and I facilitated a family meeting and it was more about their mother. There were six boisterous siblings and all opinionated and their mother was in early stage dementia. And they were all concerned about her and what to do. And this woman that, that contacted me, she was her parents' healthcare agent.

She had the power of attorney authority on their healthcare decisions and. So she was concerned about how this progresses and her mom didn't want to have anything to do with finding out. She was just very resistant to finding out what was wrong with her. And their dad ended up at the family meeting the sibling meeting and he said, well, if this ever happens, this is what I want.

This is what I don't want. And he was very clear. So fast forward last February, this past February, mom's still doing okay, but he just took a big turn for the worst. Ended up in the hospital, ER, with, failing heart fluid on his brain, they were going to have to do all these different things. And the, his kids came together and were like, wait, wait, wait, no.

First of all, if we let them do these things, we won't be able to be here with them because they couldn't have any visitors in the hospital. And they said, wait, we just heard, a few months ago exactly what he would want. I guess it was the year before exactly what he would want if he was in his position.

So they were able to step back, take the emotions out of it, breathe deep which there's always time to take a deep breath and figure things out, even in the middle of a crisis. But They all decided what he wanted was to be at home. So they brought him home, set up hospice. They got some caregivers to come in and they've been loving on him ever since they've been with him every day.

And you know, they're so grateful because he is dying and he's lived longer than they expected, which often happens when someone's on hospice early on too. But. They said, gosh, we wouldn't have been with him. We wouldn't have been here experiencing these moments, having these conversations when he's lucid enough, because he, with the water on his brain and everything, they, his memory is not that he's not completely cognizant at all times, but they have had wonderful times with him. And that's the, benefit of those conversations early? Well, before you ever need them.

Damaged Parents: [00:28:14] Yeah. And because I heard you say that these were very opinionated children and there were six of them and they all were able to get in alignment with what Dad wanted.

Maureen Kures: [00:28:26] Yeah. because they heard it directly from him and they heard it. You hear it directly from the person and you can ask questions and you can dive deeper. Even though it's emotional. And even though you might not agree, even if they didn't agree, they were able to honor his choices and respect his wishes.

And that's what they did so beautifully.

Damaged Parents: [00:28:49] Yeah. Really my listenership is the age group of parents and, usually taking care of their parents. So what are some more tips for them throughout this process?

Maureen Kures: [00:29:02] I have a little conversation starter guide. If they go to startthetalknow.com they can get the free conversation starter guide is how to start a conversation with your parents, with your siblings, with a step parent in-laws and your doctor.

I think that it's hard to start the conversation if you're not comfortable with it, but just saying. Gosh, Mom, gosh, Dad, gosh, aunt Millie, with COVID we're coming out of the worst of it now, but it's got me really thinking that what would I want? And I've been thinking about what I want, but I want to make sure I can respect and honor what you want have you thought of this?

Can we talk about this? Or if you hear of a famous person that dies. Gosh who, who recently has died? uh There's been a number of them, but I just can't, pick it out. I just read about someone the other day, but gosh so-and-so died and it got me thinking, what would you want if you were at the end of your life and would you want to be at home?

Would you want to be in the hospital? Where would you want to be? Would you want us to try to save your life with life support and prolonging? Would you want to just, would you want to be comfortable at home with us around? What would you want? So some people are very resistant, but if you just keep asking gently compassionately it might take time, but usually people will open up.

Damaged Parents: [00:30:27] Yeah because there's, I think like you were saying early on, there's a fear. Around that. And what I just heard from you gives me some peace about having those conversation, even thinking about it. Right. Cause who wants to think about this big, scary thing?

Maureen Kures: [00:30:43] And the one thing I love to remind people that humor is Okay.

Humor is okay at end of life humor's actually

We laugh a lot. When I talk about it, when we, I teach on it, when I work with families, it's okay to laugh. It's okay to have humor or that a lot of people use self-deprecating humor to deal with death. And that's okay too, but it is scary because we don't talk about it. The more we talk about it, the easier it becomes and the less scary it becomes.

Damaged Parents: [00:31:15] Right. So if what we just talked about basically was, if I let's say I'm going to go talk to my mom first, I need to figure out what I want and then go talk to my mom. And now what about my kids. I'm thinking you almost are in that sandwich time everybody's got to get talked to right.

Maureen Kures: [00:31:33] Yeah. And kids before I even thought of doing this as a job or doing this to get people talking. I have three sons that are in the 23 to 26, but when they were younger, when they to all turned 18, I said, okay, first of all, I want you to have your healthcare directives done at the very least.

I want someone that can speak on your behalf. And I said, if something were to happen to you and they're like, oh mom, here she goes again. But I said, I think your dad and I would be on the same page, but when it's an emotional traumatic time, which most likely if a young person were to need a healthcare agent to speak on their behalf, it would be a traumatic event unless they had.

A diagnosis of cancer or something like that, which gives time to get these things in order. But I said, I think your dad and I would be on the same page, but you don't know at that time. So I want one person that can legally speak on your behalf and make these decisions. And I said, and I want us all to talk.

So once my youngest turned, he was, I think, 19, I gathered them all together. And my husband I'm like, we're having a family meeting and we talked about all of this, because I said, I don't want you guys to have to guess what I would want, if something happened to me, I would want you to know right.

For me what I want because my boys are all very close friends and that fractures families that can destroy families, trying to make a decision over someone's bedside on what to do. And I've seen it happen time and time again, in the hospital. Or family's fractured over, you know, the lamp of the corner that they all want.

And I said, you're not going to get things for many years. I hope, but start looking around. If you want that lamp in the corner, put your name on it, or next time we meet, we're going to talk about if you all want it, why y'all want it. And if it doesn't work itself out, we'll draw a name and I want to start doing this now because I want to protect their relationship too.

I want to protect, them. And the more that we can give them guidance, our children, the better it is for them. Now, I also think it's okay to talk to younger children about death as far as it is age appropriate for them.

Damaged Parents: [00:33:46] And what age would you start having that conversation maybe?

Maureen Kures: [00:33:51] Well you know, young kids like to talk about death. You know that four or five year olds age, a lot of four. And five-year-olds like, they're exploring, they're trying to figure it out. So the more open we can be that is age appropriate. You don't not tell them all the nitty gritty, but age appropriate. I think that's okay.

I've watched my best friend died of cancer 11 years ago, and her kids were 11 and 14. And she didn't talk to them about it at all. And watching that process that they went to school one day and they never saw her awake again and watching the, what they've been through in these last 11. Yeah, They've both come out on the other side, but it was a hard journey.

Then there was another woman who had children in class with my children. And she ended up dying of cancer and she talked to her kids. all along. One of my friends was driving her youngest son who was, I think in first grade at gosh, about six months after his mom died. This boy and her son were friends and she called me just crying, saying, we're driving by the little local cemetery that is near our, our kids' school.

And this boy said, that's where my mom is. She's buried there and my friend said, oh, really You know? and he said, yeah, but that's just her body, not her soul, just her body's there. Her soul lives within us and me and my sister and my dad and she's with us all the time.

But if we wanted to be near her physical body, we can go there and be near her physical body. And he was just talking and I thought, and watching he and his sister cause she died about six months after my best friend died. But watching those kids and my friend's kids, it was such a difference because they were part of her journey.

And so she took them to see, I thought that too, such courage and conviction to take your children and trying to protect them, their hearts in a way that would ease the burden of losing their mother.

Damaged Parents: [00:35:57] Yeah, I think that's really beautiful

Maureen Kures: [00:35:59] Kids can really handle more than we think they can.

Damaged Parents: [00:36:03] Yeah. And I mean, the way you're describing it, I mean, even just, how the child said her soul resides with us. That's just the body that there's so much peace in that statement

Maureen Kures: [00:36:15] Yes. What a great gift that mother gave. Those two children

Her husband was much. Better off than my friend's husband too, because they talked about it. Um, Another thing I love to say is after someone dies, people don't know what to say. And gosh, the best thing for me, for me and we all grieve differently is I love to talk about the person.

I love to share stories, whether it makes me cry. And I cry a lot when I'm sharing stories about those that I have loved in my life. It means they mattered and it keeps them alive. So that's the way I agree. I love to share stories about them and to talk about them. So often people are afraid to really share a story about someone that's died with their loved ones.

And whenever someone shares a story with me about someone I've loved, it makes me happy. It means their life mattered.

Damaged Parents: [00:37:08] Yeah, You're reminded me of a song. I only just learned about it. Memories of Us, I think by Disturbed. Yes, Disturbed,

Maureen Kures: [00:37:18] I love that.

Damaged Parents: [00:37:20] but I mean, the lyrics are so beautiful in that it's keeping them alive and those memories are so important and beautiful. And that's where they live in us is in those memories, which I think is just a beautiful idea.

 Maureen Kures: [00:37:37] And, you know, it's okay. That people, that can't, my mom had a very hard time. She did not, she didn't want to share things with us after my dad died. And as much as I encouraged her to that just wasn't the way she could grieve. She had to grieve inwardly and privately, and, that was okay. It took her a few years before she could really share stories of my dad, comfortably  And so that's the thing we all grieve the way we have to.

Damaged Parents: [00:38:02] Yeah. Oh, yes. And it sounds like she was really sitting and I'm going to use the word marinating in those memories and just being with him.

Maureen Kures: [00:38:12] Yes.

Damaged Parents: [00:38:13] In that, which is really neat. Okay. We are almost at the end of our time, which is when I like to ask three tips or tools you may or may not have already given them in the podcast, but three things that come to mind that you think will help the listeners.

Maureen Kures: [00:38:29] Well, first of all, it's in my bio decide what you want, get it documented. And there's so many, you can get advanced directives on the internet for free. You don't have to go to an attorney. Document what you want. So if nothing else choose that person that you trust to make decisions on your behalf in case you can't make them for yourself health wise.

And then so the third thing decide what you want documented and then discuss it with those that matter most to you

Damaged Parents: [00:38:59] The 3 D's.

Maureen Kures: [00:39:01] The 3 D's, decide document discuss. Yeah.

Damaged Parents: [00:39:04] I love it. Thank you so much, Maureen may the world be a better place? And in some ways I'm almost looking forward to those hard, what could have been scary conversations and, even in death, I'm seeing the beauty in it now, which was something I think I was afraid of before we talked.

Maureen Kures: [00:39:23] Oh, good. I'm so glad. I'm so glad that made my heart happy. 

 Damaged Parents: [00:39:28] Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Relatively Damaged by Damaged Parents. We've really enjoyed talking to Maureen about how she got to experience helping people at the end of life. We especially liked when she spoke of the experience she had when a patient died and came back to life and was able to describe to her what happened.

To unite with other damaged people, connect with us on Facebook. Look for damaged parents. We'll be here next week still relatively damaged see you then