Episode 37: Coming Out Empowered

Nancy Shadlock

Nancy Shadlock is the CEO and founder of Centered life coaching and the host of The Coming Out Chronicles podcast. When Nancy finally discovered that she didn’t have to divorce her spirituality to embrace her sexuality she started creating the life she’s always dreamed of. She’s now married to an amazing woman named Alaina, they have two sweet babies and a beautiful life together in Calgary, Alberta.

Now she spends her days helping others break out of closets of all kinds, embrace who they are and stand in their truth.

Social media and contact information:

https://www.facebook.com/CenteredLifeCoaching

https://www.linkedin.com/in/nancyshadlock/

https://www.instagram.com/nancyshadlock/

Podcast transcript:

Damaged Parents: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Relatively Damaged Podcast by Damaged Parents where curious different queer people come to learn. Maybe just, maybe we're all a little bit damaged. Someone once told me it's safe to assume. 50% of the people I meet are struggling and feel wounded in some way.

I would venture to say it's closer to 100%. Every one of us is either currently struggling or has struggled with something that made us feel less than like we aren't good enough. We aren't capable. We are relatively damaged. And that's what we're here to talk about. In my ongoing investigation of the damage self, I want to better understand how others view their own challenges.

Maybe it's not so much about the damage, maybe it's about our perception and how we deal with it. There is a deep commitment to becoming who we're meant to be.  How do you do that? How do you balance after a damaging experience? My hero is the damaged person. The one who faces seemingly insurmountable odds to come out on the other side, whole those who stared directly into the face of adversity with unyielding persistence to discover their purpose.

These are the people who inspire me to be more fully me. Not in spite of my trials, but because of them. Let's hear from another hero.

Today's topic includes sensitive material, which may not be appropriate for children. This podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended as advice. The opinions expressed here were strictly those of the person who gave them.

Today, we're going to talk with Nancy Shadlock. She has many roles in her life. Daughter, mother, sister, spiritual guide, coming out coach and more. We'll talk about how she discovered she doesn't have to give up her spirituality to embrace her sexuality and more let's talk

 Today  on Relatively Damaged by Damaged Parents. We've got Nancy Shadlock. She is the CEO and founder of Centered Life Coaching and the host of The Coming Out Chronicles Podcast. When Nancy finally discovered that she didn't have to divorce her spirituality to embrace her sexuality, she started creating the life she's always dreamt of.

She's now married to an amazing woman named Elena. They have two sweet babies and a beautiful life together in Calgary, Alberta. Now she spends her days helping others break out of closets of all kinds, embrace who they are and stand in their truth. Welcome to the show, Nancy.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:02:35] Thank you. I'm so happy to be here.

Damaged Parents: [00:02:38] Yeah.

I mean, this is the show where we do talk about struggles. So I think you're in the right spot. Yeah. So let's talk about the struggle. Like this is a big struggle, I think for a lot of people I think because of scriptures and different different scriptures in the scriptures, if you will, right.

It's specifically States things like a must be a man and a woman must be, you know, there are only two sexes, things like that. So this is a tough subject. For a lot of people that aren't okay with it. Right.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:03:17] Yeah, it's interesting because 1946 is actually the first year that homosexuality appeared in the Bible. And I know, right. A lot of people give me that look of like what, but that was interpreted a certain way in one. Interpretation of the Bible. And since then, it's kind of like snowballed from there into this bigger thing.

And so there's actually a really amazing documentary coming out soon called 1946, where they're going to dive into all that. And like the people that were doing that translating of scripture at that time and a whistleblower that was like, I don't know if this is quite the accurate translation of it.

And then. Kind of what has snowballed since then. And so I think, yeah, for me, like I was raised very Christian. We were missionaries in Kenya. The scriptures were very much a part of my life. And so internally I wrestled with it a lot because from like 13 on, I had this wondering about myself and my sexuality.

And to be able to like struggle through it for many, many years. And like, I got a master of arts and spiritual formation. I was a pastor, like all these different things. And then the more that I dug into scripture and like further back interpretations and cultural interpretations and recognizing like, there is a misreading of it.

And in similar ways to how only a century ago, all of the Christians had slaves and that was the way to be. And we've started to read the Bible in a different way to realize, I don't think that's actually what's meant to be happening and there's been this cultural change and the same, I think the same thing is happening for homosexuality Right now where people are starting to look back further and see a deeper truth that might be there. Then we first realized where the in our lifetime we've been realizing it is

Damaged Parents: [00:05:11] Yeah. I think it's interesting

because I never really had thought about, yes. I know that that the scriptures were translated out of their original language. And yet I didn't realize or think of that potential for how that translation might happen and that there might be a misunderstanding.

Okay.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:05:35] Well, you remember playing the telephone game as a kid, right? Every time it was passed on to the next person, it's a little bit skewed. And I feel like that's, in some ways what's happened with the scriptures and it's caused a lot of harm and a lot of pain for a lot of people.

Damaged Parents: [00:05:49] Yeah. And I know I read that book Far From the Tree by Andrew Solomon. I'm not sure if you've had a chance to

Nancy Shadlock: [00:05:57] I haven't no.

Damaged Parents: [00:05:58] read his book, but, he, he talked about some of the things he did because he wasn't supposed to be gay and the struggle to not be that way and the pain and suffering. So what I heard in your story is from 13 on you had questioned it, and then you got degrees and all this education.

Were you still questioning it or was it somewhere along the way that you learned that you were like, Oh wait, no, this is who I need to be. Or this is who I am, not who I need to be. This is who I am.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:06:34] I didn't fully come out even to myself until about 32.

Damaged Parents: [00:06:40] Okay.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:06:40] So it was a lot of years of just squishing it down, pushing it to the back of my mind, trying not to think about it or trying to pray it away or going to conversion therapy and places where I could like try and pray it away and make it not be so, and that, that was painful.

Damaged Parents: [00:06:58] I'm thinking that there was, if you're trying to push down who you are, then that would, there would be like depression and anxiety and I mean, it would show up in other areas maybe, or what happened for you.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:07:14] I think I went the other way and tried to be really, really good and tried to be like perfect at whatever I did or really excel and like have it so that nobody ever questioned there's something different about this girl. And, yeah, like I think underlyingly, there was some like sadness and frustration and pain.

But I hardly let myself go there. I mostly tried to just focus on like, Oh, all these things are good in my life. And kind of just like, not look at the elephant in the room and keep going. Just keep going.

Damaged Parents: [00:07:49] How did you get to a point where you could start looking at the quote unquote elephant in the room?

Nancy Shadlock: [00:07:55] Yeah. So my. I was a youth pastor for a few years. And then I, I left there cause I, I liked the conversations that I was having with the kids, but I didn't like the raw, fun and games. And just like that stuff, I wanted to be in the meat of stuff. And I went on this pilgrimage around North America for the next year and, visited wise people in my life and tried to ask them like, Who's wise.

Like what could I learn from you? And people listened to my story and they're like, Oh, there is this thing called spiritual direction. And you could go and learn how to be a spiritual director because they sit with people in those deep conversations. And I was like, Oh, okay, cool. And so I started researching and all the schools for those, you had to be 30 years old or older to go to them because they're like wisdom traditions, and I was only 25.

Damaged Parents: [00:08:47] Oh, no.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:08:49] So I kept kind of wandering a bit. And eventually I found a school in Vancouver, in Canada that train spiritual directors. At any age. And I got to do a masters combined with it. So it was a master of arts and spiritual formation and then a practicum in spiritual direction where I just sit with people and help them pay attention to what's going on in the soul space.

And it was a really beautiful practice. And as I was doing that schooling, my eyes got opened to this like larger context of spirituality from this like narrow context that I've grown up in. And So I started to read wisdom traditions from other religions, and I started to see that like the basis of all these different spiritualities is love and.

I stopped kind of worrying so much about all the dogma and all the little minute details of things. And then it also started going to a church around that same time that was having the conversation about LGBT folks in their midst and was having like really hard conversations about it and reading scriptures together and reading other scriptures about those scriptures and like reading thoughtful writers across a spectrum of beliefs.

And it was really cool to go through that experience with them. It was also really painful because there was people on both sides that were leaving the church because we were too liberal or because we were too closed up and narrow-minded

Damaged Parents: [00:10:11] So in the midst of the conversation. There were people who were on both sides, but so people from both sides relieving because they didn't like the other one's perspective.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:10:23] Yeah. So it was diversive hurtful, but also necessary because we lived in an area in Vancouver. That was, I would say that the lesbian capital of Canada and it was like, that was our neighborhood. And there was a lot of different, a lot of women loving women that wanted to come to church. And so it was important to have that conversation.

And in that time I met a couple that was like this older lesbian couple. That was so beautiful. They loved God. They were so faithful and in all these ways, and it started to show me like, Oh, maybe you don't have to divorce your spirituality in order to embrace your sexuality. And to start to see them be embraced by the church, asked to come and lead things.

I was just like, wow, this is possible. And I still wasn't ready to fully open that up for myself because it still felt really scary. I was on the board at that church. And I had a spiritual direction practice. People were coming to me to help them hear from God kind of thing. And I was like, if I come out, I'll be totally ex-communicator, like kicked out of all these things and not have any credibility in the circles that I run in.

And so it was still really scary for me. But then I did this crazy thing where I built a tiny house on wheels and there was nowhere in Vancouver to park it because space is such a premium. So the first place I, I looked in Calgary, which is kind of Texas of the North, where there's lots of space and open, open place.

The first person to ask was like, yeah, come and park your tiny house here. We'd love to have you. And so I moved back to the province where I grew up in and, And it's ironic because Alberta is very conservative. Something about moving and starting again, I felt anonymous. I felt like I could start again and really get honest with myself about who I am.

And, and I, you know, I start to really realize if I'm going to be sitting here with people, helping them pay attention to their deepest truths, I need to be also paying attention to my deepest truth.  I started to lean into that and get really honest with myself and realize, Yeah.

like I think it hasn't worked out, I've been dating men and like, it was my job, like really seriously and trying to get out there and meet all these people and it just wasn't working.

And I realized, like, I think probably I would rather be with a woman and you know, like growing up, I had been taught like, Oh, that's only for damaged people or people that, aren't. You know, They've been hurt by a man. So then they would choose a woman or all these different reasons.

And like, I had never really been hurt by a man like that, but I still wanted to be with a woman. And shortly after I came out, I met an amazing woman and we're now married and have two kids. And it's  been a crazy journey of leaning in and trusting that I'm being led. And like you had said before, we started recording, like, God doesn't make any mistakes and just starting to live more and more into this.

This is who I am. And I don't think that God made a mistake in making me, in fact, I think there's beautiful aspects of how God made me and I'm stepping out more and more visibly to share those with the world because it enriches everyone when I can be fully me.

Damaged Parents: [00:13:41] Yeah. One of the things we were talking about before we started the podcast was how, in, religion and in church that there's this idea that, a couple of needs to be a man and  a woman and, I had said a couple of people actually came up to me at church and regarding children and they thought that they needed to cut off their children.

And, and in fact, other people at church had given that  recommendation. And I said, no, that I don't think so. Jesus would have loved. And I was like, if anything, right now, they need you more now because this is all new ground, at least that was my perspective.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:14:23] I think there is a way forward, differently than we have been reading it that is possible for same-sex people to have a beautiful life together

Damaged Parents: [00:14:33] Explain a little bit about what you envision and what you see.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:14:37] from the scriptures or from what.

Damaged Parents: [00:14:39] Well, from that perspective and how you can see this, them being able to participate and have that relationship with God, and without all this, I want to say stigma around or this idea of what a relationship absolutely has to look like.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:14:58] And yeah, like, I, I just think it's, different than we have always seen. And the other thing is that I work with a lot of trans folks, people who are coming out about their gender, and I think that. We've for the last few years now been saying like, God has a He and you only using He pronouns for God.

But I think that God has he, she, they like, God is all the things. And so I encourage trans people to share who they are with the world and to share their view of spirituality, because I think they actually are also made in God's likeness. And that means that God is they, and God is not just he. And so I think that there's a lot of beautiful ways that gay people, trans people can offer the church ways of seeing God in new ways.

Damaged Parents: [00:15:52] When you say that bringing, you know, LGBTQ to the table at church, if you will, to have these conversations of this, how they see God, which could be differently and maybe even more grand and beautiful than we've thought of before, it, me, I kinda mirror that over to, real life to bringing everyone to the table, having those conversations in so many different ways.

 I mean, it's really interesting and fantastic to me that I can have a friend of mine say, my daughter just came out, she's BI and everyone celebrated and the mom was terrified that something was gonna happen.

So I think there's still a little bit of stigma, especially for the adults that are still alive. It seems like the kids. They're like, cool. Go for it. it's actually becoming cool to come out in some ways.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:16:49] And I get that. That's a really important piece of supporting parents. And I offered a retreat last month for parents of. People who have come out so that they can have space to process it because whoever's coming out has been processing it for years and years likely. And by the time they say something out loud, they've wrestled with it internally a lot.

I'm sure. And when they are brave enough to speak it out loud, then there's a ripple effect of coming out and it affects all the other people in the family. And so being able to support them too and having safe space for them to work through there worries and their fears and their doubts and it not be their kid's responsibility to like help them work through that stuff is really important.

But to be able to have space, to feel their feelings and then hopefully come to a place of loving their kid in whatever way their kid is showing up in the world. And the interesting thing that happened at that retreat was that the parents that came, they each. As they got really honest with themselves about what all this brought up for them.

They shared that. Like it, it really inspired them to have to look at their own stuff. And like, what things are they keeping hidden? That's more true about them, but they're not brave enough to share with the world. And what things about them are they, listening to doubts and lies and structural beliefs that they're like, I have to toe the party line on this.

So I can't come out about this in my life, but like actually seeing their kids as an inspiration to them for living more truly who they are as well.

Damaged Parents: [00:18:23] that is really neat that question, what am I not being truthful with myself about? And now maybe do I need to come out is very thought provoking. And it sounds like these parents not only walked away with a new respect for their children. But also, like you were saying, their children now inspired them. And I think that's really interesting because

I think a lot of people think of their children having the capacity to teach them.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:18:56] Sad sad, but true.

Damaged Parents: [00:18:58] Right. And I mean, it just seems like coming out is much bigger than just LGBTQIA what are, I don't know, all the letters now I'm getting, I'll get there,

Nancy Shadlock: [00:19:12] I don't even know because they change every week. Yeah.

Damaged Parents: [00:19:16] So how do you. I mean, it seems like once you made the decision to come out, you had the anonymity to come out because you had just moved. How do you help those that aren't able to do that. And they've got to live in that world that they're existing in right this moment, because they know if they're not true to themselves.

Then it's just I want to, I'm sure there's a tremendous amount of depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, suicide. I mean, you name it right because of that. how do you help.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:19:53] Yeah, I think that's where it's super helpful to have someone like a coming out coach that can sit with them and help them process it for themselves and then figure out how they want to share it with the world in an empowered way, rather than a sheepish way. And. You're right. Like there's so much depression and anxiety.

And I had one client that like a year ago was laying on her couch, ready to take her life. And then six months ago came to one of my retreats and said out loud in that safe container for the first time I'm gay and had people hear it. And then we worked together for the next six months of like, what are the little steps that.

You want to take and what, do you need to wrestle through within yourself around this? And then who are the safe people that you want to start telling? And then who are the harder people that, you need to tell, but it's scary. And like, knowing that, I'm going to be there as a lifeline, cheering her on, And it's been incredible to watch her life just like come alive and to the point now where like she has a girlfriend, she is seeing a future for herself in her life.

And it's just so beautiful.

Damaged Parents: [00:21:09] that's awesome. So you said something interesting. You said coming out sheepishly versus empowered, What's the difference, or can you give us some examples of what's a sheepish one and what's an empowered?

Nancy Shadlock: [00:21:21] Yeah. Like, there's this thing about me that you should know, I'm not really sure about it, but like that kind of an energy is so different than there's this thing about me. I've wrestled with it for years and years and years, and have come to this place where I believe this and I've come to really celebrate this about myself and I care about you.

So I want you to know about it. And I want you to understand who I am in a deeper way. And that's a very different energy

Damaged Parents: [00:21:50] Yeah. Yeah. And I could see where saying it sheepishly. It's almost like you're asking to be dismissed.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:22:01] yeah.

Damaged Parents: [00:22:01] Or for someone to not accept it or for them to validate, but not valid. Like, even though you're looking for that validation in a way, you, in some ways or not you, but the person saying it in that way, right.

Then I'm trying to process through this.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:22:17] Yeah.

And you know

Damaged Parents: [00:22:18] just see that being super painful.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:22:21] Yeah. And you're right. Like, it happens in all kinds of contexts too, where, like I really believe my parents' spirituality anymore. And like doing that in a sheepish way, as opposed to like, I have really thoughtfully thought through this and I'm being led in this different direction.

And oftentimes I think people can respect you when you you've done it thoughtfully. And when they can be let in on your process a bit, it's a lot easier than just like. There's this thing I'm out of here or, like ways that we do in a, snap jerk move so that we can get out before they hurt us.

But if you can go in and you're saying it because you want to deepen the connection, hopefully that will be reciprocated.

Damaged Parents: [00:23:04] well, and it's scary too, right? Because you really want this other person to, or these other people to accept you for who you are. that would be hard to get over to.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:23:15] Yeah.

Damaged Parents: [00:23:16] I think about some of the hard, difficult conversations I've had to have in my life and my hearts pump in and tear up sweating, like I couldn't imagine going to them and having a difficult conversation with them about something I believe that is not.

That they don't agree with, I mean, I've had two, but that's hard.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:23:38] And even if you come with the most, strong, empowered posture, it still can go hard and badly and they can have a really hard reaction, but that's also where it's helpful to have. The support in your corner, where you have someone that's helping you, you can go back and process with. And so whether it's like a coach or it's in my group where people can come back and share what's happening in other people understand it because they've been part of it.

It's so helpful. So you don't have to feel alone because I think a lot of this stuff is stuff where we feel alone and it's too scary to move forward.

Damaged Parents: [00:24:14] Yeah. Okay, I've got uh a parent question.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:24:18] Okay.

Damaged Parents: [00:24:19] Cause I'm one of those ornery parents. And I always check in with my kids  and go, you know, just let me know if you want to go that way or that, you know, I usually say it in some sort of a fashion that I hope. Helps them feel comfortable. But is that, I mean, from a coach perspective for parents, is it more helpful or hurtful to call out the potential elephant in the room and say, Hey, I just want you to know.

I love you anyway.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:24:48] I think, just leave it at. I want you to know, I love you because the anyway implies that it's like not quite the way that you would have hoped.

Damaged Parents: [00:24:56] I just got called out.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:24:59] You know, And, and I'm glad that you said that, cause there's a lot of people that say that Like even if their kid comes out and they're like, yes, I love you. I love you no matter what. And it's like, but that no matter what makes it sound like it's not your chosen thing.

Damaged Parents: [00:25:14] Uh, conditional and that's not true. And I see the, I could see where that would make a huge could, could be super impactful.

What are some other things parents could do better at.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:25:27] I think if a kid comes out to them and is exploring their gender in a different way, like honoring that they want to be called by different pronouns. And even if it feels uncomfortable, even if it feels hurtful because you chose this name for them for a specific reason, like a huge way of honoring them is just to use what they're asking for you.

And that way you'll keep the relationship going. And if you like want to go by your hard and fast, no, I named you this and you are a girl, or you will do that. Like that's just going to sever the relationship and not continue on the conversation. And so

Damaged Parents: [00:26:04] So almost coming from the perspective of asking yourself, what's more important to you holding the line or having a relationship.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:26:14] Yeah.

Damaged Parents: [00:26:14] And if it's having the relationship, then doing things that are going to help that relationship grow and not destroying it.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:26:23] Yeah.

And asking, curious questions rather than like telling them what they should be doing or how they should be, but like, Oh, how did you come to that? Or like, what have you noticed about yourself? And, Oh, curiosity is a huge way of bridging that gap.

Damaged Parents: [00:26:39] yeah. So let's say we've got someone listening to the podcasts. That's, it's been pretty rigid religiously with the beliefs of the man and a woman. And, they're wondering how I know we've talked about it a little bit, but they're on that very other end of the spectrum. Where in the absolutes and they're listening to this podcast, they're going, Oh, I'm noticing that all these struggles are similar.

And now this one podcast comes up and we're talking now about sexuality and spirituality and they're starting to rethink. What's their perspective. What would be some tools that you would recommend if they want to get a better understanding?

Nancy Shadlock: [00:27:20] I'd recommend a book called Torn by Justin Lee. And he also was a pastor and, struggled through the scriptures of how do I believe this? How do I hold this to be true? But this is who I am. And, so it goes into his story. I would recommend I think there's another one. God and the Gay Christian is another great resource.

I'd recommend, reaching out to me, I'd be happy to have conversations with folks or other gay people. Like, do you know any gay people for real and getting to know them, like go have coffee with someone and not to like, change their mind about themselves, or any, kind of thing, but just to like, get to know them as a human, because.

The dogma falls apart a lot. When you get to know someone and it's a real relationship.

Damaged Parents: [00:28:10] So really connecting, which goes back to your staying curious and making sure, asking, curious questions.

I think it comes down to getting, I mean, when you get to know who they are,

someone else's sexual preference doesn't really impact. Me, unless they want to have a relationship with me is kind of what I'm thinking right now. But tell me if I'm on the wrong, not the wrong, like, because there are people, everyone is a person. Everyone is human, regardless of the struggle that they've got to face.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:28:44] Yeah, and I think so oftentimes LGBT folks get looked at with that lens of what's happening in the bedroom and like, what other human do you look at? And you wonder what's happening in the bedroom for them.

Damaged Parents: [00:28:57] That's a really great point.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:28:59] It's not about that. And like, what percentage of your life is about what happens in your bedroom? Like it's not the underlying tenant of who we are or of what our life is about. And, my mom had admitted that when I first came out, she was worried because the only examples of gay life that she knew of were like Mardi Gras and pride parades, and like this big demonstrative sex in the streets and liberation.

And she's like, I don't want that for my daughter, but that's not who I am. Like, I just have a quiet life at home with my wife and kids. And yeah, it's shifting that interpretation of what an LGBT person is and what they're all about in their life.

Damaged Parents: [00:29:39] Yeah, which is, which can be difficult because of the stigma of what LGBTQ is supposed to look like. I mean, it seems like even on TV, my perception of when I see shows are still very much, uh, like if we're talking about to two men, There's still very much a feminine  man and a masculine man and vice versa with women.

And I'm not certain that's true in those relationships around the globe. I don't think that I will always know who takes more feminine roles or not. I mean, heck even in heterosexual relationships, I have female friends that, they're doing the construction on the house. the this they're not the home bodies doing the, Just cooking and cleaning and,  and then we've got the men doing more of the caregiving with the kids and things like that.

So what are your thoughts on, what's being portrayed right now in, cinema  and movies and TV and things like that.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:30:45] yeah, right. There's mostly just a, kind of an over the top expression of it and that's doing a disservice, thankfully there are more and more representations. And so. they're starting to be more, I guess, real examples of what relationships can look like, but that point that you make of, your friends who are women that are doing construction. like I think that.

Queer relationships bring a gift to society because we don't get tied into the blue and the pink roles. And like, I know in our own relationship, we just cater to who excels at this thing and you're better at this. Okay. You do that. You're better at this. Okay. You do that. And I think in heterosexual marriages, often people get pigeonholed into you do the boy jobs.

I'll do the girl jobs and oftentimes that stunts people's creativity, people's growth. I heard from a friend the other day that was like, yeah, I had to wait for my husband to come home and get the lawn mower out so that he could mow the lawn when, like, I really wanted to go and sit out on the lawn.

And I was like, why wouldn't you just grab the lawnmower and do it? Like, why do you have to wait for that?

Damaged Parents: [00:31:55] I had the same thought too. I mean, except that I couldn't physically do it, but when I was capable, if something needed fixed, I was just going to fix it. I didn't hold to those roles because to me it wasn't, it, it didn't make sense. But I'm beginning to learn. I might be a little bit of an odd duck,

  right? I think so. I think, I think so.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:32:17] There's a quote somewhere everyone's normal until you get to know them.

Damaged Parents: [00:32:21] We are all so individual as humans. And like I said earlier, regardless of the challenge, if, God put us all here, then we're here for a reason, and God doesn't make mistakes. Humans do. And if I can live by that tenant makes it a lot. It just opens up so much more for that love. Because I think those are the, I mean, in the scriptures I read, love and love the first two.

So I think also in coming out, like you were saying about learning how you want to come out. I think when coming out from an empowered way is also being able to love the other person and know where they're at and be okay. Even if they don't, accept or they don't want to accept, or they can't accept in that moment, what you have to say.

And so I don't think that necessarily means that they don't love the person coming out. I think maybe that they're having to deal with their own demons.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:33:21] And that's, the word I would share with people that are coming out that maybe feel scared and maybe you've tried to part the waters a little bit and share with someone and it didn't go well. Like keep going on your journey, trust that the other person's on their journey and trust that time will help because time really does do a lot of helping people grow on their own.

And remember that you're just seeing a snapshot in time right now. And there's a longer story happening and you're coming out might be a catalyst to them having to get honest about something true in themselves. And so having grace both ways for that.

Damaged Parents: [00:34:01] Yeah, grace is the room to allow others, I think, to be who they are in their journey. And I'm thinking in coaching on coming out, there's probably a lot of work on boundaries. Also. Am I wrong in that? Or can you speak to that on some level?

Nancy Shadlock: [00:34:20] Yeah.

That's really needed because so much of, coming out is like carving out your own path. And I don't know if you've read Glennon Doyle has a really amazing book called Untamed and she talks in there about. A woman is fully grown. Like a woman becomes an adult when she stops living life by her parents' specifications, but to her own.

And like, even as a youth pastor, that was my favorite thing was helping kids realize that they have their own connection to God, to source that it's not through their parents. And as hard as that is for parents, it's so important and it should be something celebrated when they realize I'm hearing a truth from God, for myself, and I'm going to live by that.

And so sometimes that creates a boundary where you, you can't listen any longer to what your parents are saying, and that's super hard,  but it's also necessary in moving forward as a mature adult.

Damaged Parents: [00:35:20] it's really hard from a parenting perspective too,

Nancy Shadlock: [00:35:25] Totally.

Damaged Parents: [00:35:26] let them, I mean, from my perspective, I I'm assuming your kids are younger

Nancy Shadlock: [00:35:31] Yeah. There three.

Damaged Parents: [00:35:32] babies. Mine are teenagers. And my experience of teenagers is letting them be who they are and giving them that room to fail or to succeed in what they believe to be true and right for them is hard.

So as we're talking, I'm reminded if the poem by Kahlil Gibran On Children and this is to the parents, right? Your children are not your children. They are sons and daughters of life's longing for itself. They come through you, but not from you. And though they're with you. Yeah, they belong not to you.

You may give them your love, but not your thoughts for they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies, but not their souls for their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow. Which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams, you may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you for life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth. The Archer sees the Mark upon the path. That's that infinite. And he'd been you with this might, that his arrows might go swift and far let your bending of the Archer's hand be for gladness for, even as he loves the arrow, that flies.

So he loves also the bow that is stable

I love that poem because it reminds me that my children. Mine are both daughters. So their spirit to me, their spirit daughters.

And if they're not mine, they're just mine for a moment if you will, then who am I to dictate what is right for them?

Nancy Shadlock: [00:37:19] Yeah. It's really incredible that you read that today because it's coming back to me now that I first heard it from my spiritual director when I was coming out and I was talking about how hard it was with my parents. And, she had said that like, they can help me grow, but they can't like, I will teach them and I will I'm coming from beyond or going beyond where they are now.

And that helped me have some grace for them in that journey.

Damaged Parents: [00:37:49] That's amazing. Cause I use it for me to give my children, grace, and here you used it to give your parents grace.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:37:56] Yeah.

Damaged Parents: [00:37:57] That's fantastic that it can come from two different perspectives. Okay. Our time is almost up. I always ask for three things. So three tips or tools or things you would like people to do. We may or may not have talked about them already. Just three things that come to mind that you want people to walk away from this podcast with.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:38:18] I would say curiosity, walk about your days with curiosity, whoever you encounter, whatever comes up, whatever feels even frustrating in your day. Turn it into curiosity of like, I wonder why that happened. I wonder why the bus is late. I wonder why I missed my flight or, whatever the thing is. And then trust, like trust that the person in front of you is living the best that they can doing the best that they can.

And trust that God is holding. All of us. Trust is really huge. And then. I guess the other one that would come up as humility and recognizing, like, we don't see the whole story right now. We don't know everything there is to know and trusting with curiosity that we're just watching the story unfold as it unfolds and humility on the journey.

Damaged Parents: [00:39:10] Okay, your last one is super hard.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:39:14] You want me to make a different one?

Damaged Parents: [00:39:16] No, no, no. Thank you for hard homework.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:39:18] Yeah.

Damaged Parents: [00:39:19] Thank you so much for coming on this show, Nancy, it's been a fantastic conversation today.

Nancy Shadlock: [00:39:25] Yeah. I've really appreciated your thoughtful questions and meanderings, it's been really fun to chat with you too.

 Damaged Parents: [00:39:31] Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Relatively Damaged by Damaged Parents. We've really enjoyed talking to Nancy about how she was able to maintain her spirituality and stay true to who she is. We especially liked when she gave us the hard homework to be humble, to unite with other damaged people, connect with us on Instagram. Look for damaged parents. We'll be here next week still relatively damaged See you then