S2E48: Overcoming Narcissistic Abuse

Denise is the founder of Life after Narcissism CSW Coaching, a global resource for victims of emotional abuse that offers support and coaching to women who are READY to break ties with narcissistic abuse in past relationships.  

As a survivor of trauma in narcissistic abuse, Denise uses her real- life experience as a way to connect with others and teach, love & support them in their healing journey. 

Denise's mission statement is "to enhance the lives of survivors of abuse. Through the four core pillars of healing, we empower women to heal the trauma and awaken their true potential to create an extraordinary LIFE AFTER NARCISSISM.” 

She has a clear vision for seeing the spots that exist in every “stuck” situation. 

And the creativity to transform it. 

Denise has managed to come out of her own 22- year toxic relationship with a smiling face and a positive attitude. 

And now shows other women (just like you) how to do the same for themselves. 💜 

FREE GIFT name “Heal Your Heart” Mini-Course”

FREE GIFT LINK- https://empowerthewomanwithin.lpages.co/heal-your-heart/

TY page https://empowerthewomanwithin.lpages.co/heal-your-heart-gift/

Podcast transcript

[00:00:00] Damaged Parents: Welcome back to Relatively Damaged by Damaged Parents were emotionally abused, surviving, determined people come to learn maybe just, maybe we're all a little bit damaged. Someone once told me it's safe to assume 50% of the people I meet are struggling and feel wounded in some way.

I would venture to say it's closer to 100%. Every one of us is either currently struggling or has struggled with something that made us feel less than like we aren't good enough. We aren't capable. We are relatively damaged. And that's what we're here to talk about. In my ongoing investigation of the damaged self, I want to better understand how others view their own challenges.

Maybe it's not so much about the damage. Maybe it's about our perception and how we deal with it. There is a deep commitment to becoming who you're meant to be. How do you do that? How do you find balance after a damaging experience?

My hero is you the one who faces seemingly insurmountable odds to come out on the other side, whole. You who stares directly into the face of adversity with unyielding persistence to discover your purpose. You are the people who inspire me to be more fully me, not in spite of my trials, but because of them let's hear from another hero.

Today's topic includes sensitive material, which may not be appropriate for children. This podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended as advice. The opinions expressed here are strictly those of the person who gave them.

Today, we're going to talk with Denise Kavaliauskas we'll talk about how she survived narcissistic abuse and how she found health and healing let's talk

 Welcome back to Relatively Damaged by Damaged Parents. Today, we have Denise Kavaliauskas did I get it right? Oh, I was so close. Kavaliauskas. I'm going to. Right the last time I got it right.

[00:02:04] Denise Kavaliauskas: Yeah.

[00:02:04] Damaged Parents: She is a transformational love coach speaker and international bestselling author.

She is also the founder of Life After Narcissism CSW Coaching, a global resource for victims of emotional abuse that offers support and coaching to women who are READY and she has that in all caps. So I'm going to ask her about that once I'm done with this intro to break ties with narcissistic abuse in past relationships, as a survivor of trauma, narcissistic abuse, Denise uses her real life experience as a way to connect with others and teach love and support them in their healing journey.

Thank you so much for coming onto the show and letting me get your name wrong and then getting it right.

[00:02:49] Denise Kavaliauskas: Well, thank you, Angela. I am excited to be here and share all of these messages that are gonna come through with your audience.

[00:02:55] Damaged Parents: Oh, I can't wait. Well, I'm already intrigued. READY in all caps. I mean, I would think women don't want to be in a relationship with a narcissist, but this implies just how I'm reading it to me as I read it that maybe that's not true.

[00:03:11] Denise Kavaliauskas: Yeah, there's different stages. So there's women who, yes, they're ready, meaning they can see it and they're tired of it They know it's not going to get any better. So they're ready to, face the music as they say. And then there's women who don't even know the depth of what they're going through.

And that was me for 22 years. So if she can't see it, she can't fix it. Right. And then there's women who do see it. But they've gotten so comfortable in the dysfunction and there is a payoff to be in that relationship. So maybe he travels a lot and she doesn't put up with it every day, all the time.

Maybe there's finances involved where if she leaves that she thinks that that would be cut off or diminished. So, she lives a nice life. Maybe it's, she doesn't want to break up the family because of her children. So there's a lot of different ways that women will stay. We're not recognized what's really happening versus the woman who's ready and says, I don't care what I have to lose or go through.

I'm done with this. And eventually, well, I can't speak for everybody but I would think of it. Eventually everybody gets to that point, depending on how bad it gets. And that was me. So I went through all of those stages and finally came to the stage where I was like, I'm done, I can't do this anymore. And yes, the finances were a thing and I left for the futon couch and an air mattress and moved three states away.

So

[00:04:41] Damaged Parents: So you were saying at the beginning, you didn't see it at all.

[00:04:45] Denise Kavaliauskas: No.

[00:04:46] Damaged Parents: Did other people around you see it? Or,

[00:04:48] Denise Kavaliauskas: Yeah, everybody.

[00:04:49] Damaged Parents: oh, they did. So what were some things that they would say, and it's just, you kept your blinders on maybe.

[00:04:58] Denise Kavaliauskas: Yes, very much so. Well there was really just this one conversation that I had with my best friend many, many years ago. And she was like, Denise don't you think he's a narcissist? And I was like, what's that? And I Googled it, Google was out at that time and I took like some of these tests, answer these questions.

And because in my mind he didn't check off all of the check boxes.

[00:05:20] Damaged Parents: All of them.

[00:05:22] Denise Kavaliauskas: Right. Exactly. I dismissed it. And I said, eh, he's not and continued on in life.

[00:05:27] Damaged Parents: so at that point, it was just impossible that you could be the one in a relationship with a narcissist.

[00:05:34] Denise Kavaliauskas: Not impossible. I just didn't want to see it because I didn't want a broken family and I didn't want a divorce. I don't want my kids to be a part-time dad. Part-time house two Christmases. I didn't want that.

[00:05:46] Damaged Parents: I would think a lot of women might stay simply for that. or other, or other reasons, maybe they grew up in a broken family, so they have to prove. That they're not going to have a broken family, isn't it interesting how pride can get in our way of leaving something dysfunctional to get to something healthy.

[00:06:05] Denise Kavaliauskas: exactly.

[00:06:06] Damaged Parents: So had you had kids at this point so you had kids, you're wondering you looked it up and then still nothing.

[00:06:13] Denise Kavaliauskas: Well, we dismissed. It

[00:06:14] Damaged Parents: What did it take for you to get to that point? And how long after that conversation? And do you think it was helpful that you had taken that test?

[00:06:23] Denise Kavaliauskas: I wasn't ready at that time. so no my blinders were big time on and I was not ready to see the truth. And that's why I talk about truth all the time, because it's so important for us to see our truth of what's really happening. So I was out of the marriage two years before I realized what I had been in narcissistic abusive relationship, that I was married to a narcissist and that I was in an abusive relationship. And I was an abused woman, all very hard pills to swallow at the time.

[00:06:57] Damaged Parents: So it took you two years to get to a point where you could even,

[00:07:00] Denise Kavaliauskas: Face the truth.

[00:07:01] Damaged Parents: Ooh,

[00:07:02] Denise Kavaliauskas: exactly. And I knew it was toxic and I knew I was screwed up and I knew all that stuff, but I kept making excuses for him. He had a bad day or, uh, his background or, What he had been through, Ultimately, it was excuses that I was making for his behavior.

[00:07:19] Damaged Parents: So he was behaving a certain way and then you would brush it off as poor him, or kind of maybe pity, like maybe.

[00:07:26] Denise Kavaliauskas: At times. Yeah. At times.

[00:07:28] Damaged Parents: Like that for thing he's just suffered so much, I'm just trying to get a good feeling of what it would be like to be in that situation. What can you define for the listeners who don't know what a narcissist is and how that shows up in a relationship?

[00:07:46] Denise Kavaliauskas: So what a narcissist is in a nutshell is I'll give it in layman's terms, extremely selfish person who only thinks of themselves and has a lack of empathy or compassion for other people. So they have compassion, empathy for themselves. So like the poor me syndrome and that's one of the signs is there.

They always play the victim for themselves and they blame everything on everybody else or everything else.

[00:08:13] Damaged Parents: So

they're always the victim.

[00:08:15] Denise Kavaliauskas: Always the victim. Yes. Always blaming. Yes. So for example, like I'm in a conversation and someone says, oh, you went to college, yeah but I didn't finish. Oh, what happened? Oh, it was because of my parents couldn't afford it.

Or, you know, something, an excuse to blame somebody else of why they didn't, in that scenario, didn't finish college.

[00:08:37] Damaged Parents: Okay. So if I'm in a relationship with a narcissist, one of the things I might notice is that when they refer to any point in life, where there was a change or maybe a failure, that it will be blamed on someone else or something out of their control, and they won't take responsibility for making a new choice.

[00:08:54] Denise Kavaliauskas: Zero responsibility for the life. Yes.

[00:08:57] Damaged Parents: Ooh.

[00:08:58] Denise Kavaliauskas: Yeah.

[00:08:59] Damaged Parents: how does that show up as a, I mean, I could see where it would be dysfunctional for them. How does it show up in the relationship as abuse and things like that?

[00:09:06] Denise Kavaliauskas: Well, because they're selfish, they have no empathy or compassion for anybody else. So when two people are in a relationship in a healthy relationship, there's a balance. Right. There's a balance of, I love you. I care for you. I want the best for you and vice versa. We're in a narcissistic relationship.

It's I love you. If I love you, because you do X, Y, and Z. Maybe, maybe she looks good on his shoulder. Maybe there's a status, something like that, right? There's no balance and there's no True emotions, true feelings. It's what do you do for me? Well, then I give you attention. I love you because of ultimately cause you do for me.

[00:09:47] Damaged Parents: So like a very transactional relationship. If you do this, then I love you. And if you don't do this, then that love is withdrawn and they might maybe would they say. Well, I don't love you now. Or would it just be, something maybe that you recognize, like in some fashion.

[00:10:04] Denise Kavaliauskas: They punish. So there's ways that narcissist punish the other person for not doing what they expect or want. We're not saying or whatever it is that you don't do, what they expect or want there's a punishment. And one of the big ones that maybe people would recognize is the silent treatment, right?

Cut you off and not talk to you, not respond to your texts, phone calls, just no communication.

[00:10:29] Damaged Parents: is that I'm interrupting. Like I promised I would, is that different than 'cause I know like the Gottman's talk about having a, cooling off period. So, so I'm thinking the silent treatment is different than an agreed upon. Hey, I'm going to, I need some time and then let's meet back at this time And. let's have a discussion.

[00:10:50] Denise Kavaliauskas: So when you described was an open communication, Hey, I need to cool off give me five minutes or whatever it is. And I'll come back and we can discuss this, right. That's a healthy way of communicating. That's a healthy way of interacting with somebody with the narcissist does is

[00:11:07] Damaged Parents: Nothing just just stops

[00:11:09] Denise Kavaliauskas: that's it, right?

[00:11:11] Damaged Parents: no conversation. No.

[00:11:13] Denise Kavaliauskas: No response, no conversation, nothing. Punishment

[00:11:18] Damaged Parents: so I'm betting, even having conversations about how to solve a problem becomes about the person and not the problem. So it's like you not you in per se, but, in that relationship, it would be one person against together instead of both against the problem.

[00:11:37] Denise Kavaliauskas: Correct. And the blame has always shifted on the other person.

[00:11:41] Damaged Parents: So, no matter what, so for you, maybe you were always blamed for whatever the challenge was. It was your fault somehow.

[00:11:49] Denise Kavaliauskas: Right

[00:11:50] Damaged Parents: Yeah.

[00:11:51] Denise Kavaliauskas: or blaming something else outside, outside of the relationship.

[00:11:56] Damaged Parents: Okay. So if it wasn't you then maybe the hope is to get you to band together with them and blame something outside the relationship. And then both of you could just be mad about that.

[00:12:07] Denise Kavaliauskas: Yes.

[00:12:08] Damaged Parents: which wow, just as I'm thinking about it, that's really interesting because I bet in those moments when that would happen, where it's the fight against something outside of the relationship, that sense of connection might feel super fantastic because finally there's a connection.

Am I you're nodding your head up and down, like absolutely.

[00:12:33] Denise Kavaliauskas: It's called trauma bonding where are the trauma bonding? Yeah. That the narcissist does.

[00:12:37] Damaged Parents: So the narcissist by doing that creates a bond with the person that can go deeper on some levels, I guess,

because it's, it might be viewed as love.

[00:12:51] Denise Kavaliauskas: Right, exactly.

And connection. Yeah.

[00:12:54] Damaged Parents: Ohh so why would you want to see that if all this other time, if there are those times where you're not getting that attention? Oh my gosh. That would be so hard to break away from.

[00:13:08] Denise Kavaliauskas: It's very emotional. Yeah. And that's why I call it the silent abuse is because narcissistic abuse is not Domestic violence, domestic abuse, there's bruises. There's broken bones. There's a crime involved. You can call the police. You can call on the law and say he did this to me.

[00:13:28] Damaged Parents: Yeah. And you put quotes around crime.

[00:13:31] Denise Kavaliauskas: right

[00:13:32] Damaged Parents: because I'm thinking it's really hard.

[00:13:34] Denise Kavaliauskas: yeah, no, you're right.

You're on track. When you're ready. We're narcissistic abuse. It's all of the emotional and mental. Abuse. It's also the financial abuse. It's all the abuse you can't see.

[00:13:45] Damaged Parents: Quote unquote see

[00:13:46] Denise Kavaliauskas: Right? There's no visual to it. There's no tangible, oh gosh, look at that. Right. It's all the emotional and the mental. And like, you were just talking about the trauma bonding, it's all of that.

[00:13:58] Damaged Parents: So, I mean, in a divorce, it would seem that would almost be scarier to leave that.

especially if there's children involved,

[00:14:07] Denise Kavaliauskas: Right. And the courts don't recognize it as abuse either.

[00:14:12] Damaged Parents: right.

[00:14:12] Denise Kavaliauskas: it's basically your word against mine. Who's telling the truth.

[00:14:16] Damaged Parents: And how do you know.

[00:14:17] Denise Kavaliauskas: And they're such master manipulators that they tend to manipulate the court, the system, the judges, the attorneys, the judge. I've heard far too many stories where that's what happens.

So the victim is victimized again, when she decided, when she finally has the courage and is brave enough to leave the relationship. And she's doing such a good, healthy thing for herself and her children, she has to go through the process and then the process abuses her again.

So now it's more.

[00:14:51] Damaged Parents: There's not really any good system

[00:14:53] Denise Kavaliauskas: Right.

[00:14:53] Damaged Parents: out there for, to figure it out.

[00:14:56] Denise Kavaliauskas: in my opinion is total BS.

[00:14:59] Damaged Parents: Well, I'm just trying to think even how, if a psych eval. ordered or something like that, that, that, if, if you're dealing with a narcissist or a psychopath, which is very narcissistic, right. That, That it would be a questionable evaluation in the first place.

Like the, validity to it would maybe get called into question. And maybe that needs to be a red flag, but wow. It sounds like there's some advocacy that could really needs to happen on this front as far as is dealing with the courts and things like that

[00:15:29] Denise Kavaliauskas: and they have it, they just don't for whatever reason they just don't use it. They don't recognize it. They don't implement it because psychologists and psychiatrists are pulled into court cases all the time, all the time. if it's one person's word against the other, why aren't they evaluated emotionally

[00:15:47] Damaged Parents: well, maybe I'm just thinking maybe there's not, the funding isn't there it's the court level and then it would be left up to the people. And now you've got, a woman or a man who's dealt with a narcissist. You've got one of them. That now they're left with basically the bill. Cause you know, the narcissist certainly is not going to foot the bill, I would think.

 And then you're looking at thousands of dollars on top of what you're already going through.

[00:16:14] Denise Kavaliauskas: Yeah, exactly.

[00:16:16] Damaged Parents: This sounds like hell I'm certain it is hell. But what happened to give you the guts? was it just being ready to see it? Or was there like a, an incident that happened that it's like, okay, clearly I need to leave.

And you said you didn't even figure out what it was until two years later. So I'm thinking maybe it was an incident

[00:16:34] Denise Kavaliauskas: Yeah. So in 2008, my then husband had attempted suicide with our 14 year old daughter in the next room. And that day I had told him I wanted a divorce and I had told him a million times before, but you have to know the background of, he was self-medicating with a cocktail of pills. He has mental illness and depression.

So there's a whole slew of things that were already stewing. When I said this. And so that day I left with our son. We went to the store, which was literally four blocks away. Like it's walking distance. And my daughter was in the shower and he was in the bedroom. He was mad because I told him I wanted a divorce.

So he was pouting. This is another thing that narcissist do. They pout when they don't get their way. So he had locked himself in the bedroom, my son and I left, we were gone maybe 30 minutes. And then when I came back, when we walked in the door he had already done it and he was on my daughter's lap and she was on the phone with 911.

[00:17:42] Damaged Parents: Oh, wow.

[00:17:43] Denise Kavaliauskas: So, that was the biggest trauma that we had ever experienced. And and so getting back to what you were asking, I was gonna leave him, especially after he did that, but my 13 and 14 year old were begging me. Mom, please don't Dad please. Don't leave Dad.

[00:18:02] Damaged Parents: So then they were afraid if he leave him because of what had happened. Maybe I'm guessing you're nodding

[00:18:09] Denise Kavaliauskas: Yeah, they were afraid they didn't want him alone. They wanted me to take care of and they didn't want the family split. Just all of those things that kids think about, especially in teenagers. So I didn't for another two and a half years. So then fast forward to 2011. And things didn't get better.

I had planned to leave secretly. Didn't tell anybody I was messaging my friend here in North Carolina. I'm from south Florida. So all of this transpired in south Florida, over Facebook and my son got ahold of the messages and told his dad. That I was planning to leave. So that was another whole event, not as bad as the first one, but still another event.

but I left, I left because that was following my hospital's again, psychiatric ward again, and all the things that go with that. And in the hospital I told the, I don't remember if it was a psychologist, psychiatrist, the doctor, don't discharge him. You gotta give me 24 hours to get myself out.

' cause I was leaving and he was like, okay. And he actually kept him in there another five days. So then I got blamed for that.

So I got my stuff out, took it to a friend's house. Cause I was waiting for our daughter to graduate high school, which was in may. And that was my exit plan was to which the plan was already in action.

It just, got sped up because of my son telling us that. So then. He got to the hospital. We separated, we lived in different homes and then I left right after her graduation. So then I was here in North Carolina for three months. Then the hoovering started. So hoovering it's a term, for narcissist when they come back around.

They promise you the world, they paint this beautiful picture. If we get back together, if you come back to me, this is going to happen where this is not going to happen. We're going to know basically live happily ever after. Right. I just need you back. We just need to be back together. Right. And so then we have over 20 years together.

So that was thrown into the mix of, we have a history together. We have a family which were all true statements. But he was using them to get his way. Well, I had never been financially on my own because when we first got together, I was 19 years old. So I had been with him since I was 19. And now I was in North Carolina financially on my own for the first time in many, over 20 years.

So scared, even though I was doing fine, but the ego likes to come in and say, It's not going to last or whatever the story was. So when he came back around, did his hoovering, Farsi went to my daughter because if he was going to get to me the easiest way is to get to her first hour an hour.

And it worked. So I packed up everything here in North Carolina and moved back to Florida. And that was 2011 And of course that lasted five minutes. So I had to do it all over again. So this year 2022 represents 10 years of being no contact and abuse free so we came back in 2012 and after that I never looked back.

I was like, Nope, I'm only going to have going forward.

[00:21:25] Damaged Parents: Yeah. Yeah. And it sounds like the kids in some way, get to figure out what their relationship is going to be with their dad at this point. Cause they're much older.

[00:21:33] Denise Kavaliauskas: Exactly.

[00:21:34] Damaged Parents: Yeah.

Oh, it sounds like that took a lot of strength and It's a journey. It's not like you were able to just walk away once because those emotional ties can be so strong.

[00:21:47] Denise Kavaliauskas: Yes.

[00:21:48] Damaged Parents: So if someone is in that situation, I mean, actually, sorry, let me, let me change that question at that point, during those separations, did you remember about the test that you took.

[00:22:02] Denise Kavaliauskas: No I didn't remember the test until I started doing interviews. until I started talking about my story, because that what I just described to you, I was not willing to face any of my truth. In fact, I hid it all. I didn't want to go there. So the second time, when I came back here to North Carolina, I took the easy route and I was numbing myself with alcohol and men.

So I was dating. I was getting drunk every weekend. And my weekends, I mean, Thursday to Monday, and that was my escape to not face the truth, not go through the emotions that I needed to go through from what I have been through. It was just easier to get drunk and, you know,

[00:22:47] Damaged Parents: Yeah, so It was even hard to take a look at what you had been through and how it impacted you.

[00:22:53] Denise Kavaliauskas: Right. Exactly carried a lot of guilt because of what my children have been through. I carried so much guilt that they had seen and went went through, especially my daughter who pulled him out of the room and he was on her lap and she called 9 1 1. So for years I felt, so that was part of my numbing process.

I didn't want to feel that guilt feeling because I stayed, my kids went through this trauma and everything that happened before. And after that, so. It's the emotions that I was afraid to face look at and process through. Plus I didn't know how to do that. I didn't know how to, to process my emotions correctly or in a healthy way.

And also in addition to that, I had cried my eyes out for 22 years. Like that whole relationship, there was a lot of crying there was a lot of emotional pain. So the last thing I wanted to do was freaking cry again.

[00:23:50] Damaged Parents: I'm sorry, I'm chuckling, but actually makes a lot of sense. It's like, I don't want to cry anymore. I'm done. I left that's over. Right. So how did you even start to process your own emotions about everything?

[00:24:04] Denise Kavaliauskas: So it's funny because I ran his business in Florida. So when it came down to North Carolina, obviously I couldn't do that anymore. And I didn't have my own business. So I went and got a J O B which what I had experienced. It was medical sales so it was doing medical sales and I mean, how long did it take before?

I was like, this sucks. I want to do something else. And I just had this vision of, the laptop life. I wanted the laptop life. I wanted to like have a business online. Sit poolside and drink my umbrella Margarita's and, you know, make money and have clients, but I didn't know what exactly that business would be.

I just pictured that. So that led me to, I needed to create an online business, so that led me to hiring a business coach during my one year in her program, with a business coach, I started to get personal, you know, obviously there's personal growth.

If you're going to be an entrepreneur, you have to right. There's no denying it. And she taught us how to create online audience. So through my online audience, I was reaching out to other coaches and I thought at the time I would be a divorce coach cause I left and got divorced and it was a success.

So I'm reaching out to these other coaches who had similar audiences. And I came across this one coach and she's beautiful. And I'm just resonated with everything that she does for women. And I was like, oh gosh, okay, she's going to be on my interview series and I'm going to get into her program. So I got into her three-month program.

And I did that three month program over and over and over and over again to the tune of 18 months. And that was my personal growth journey. So during that 18 months of me doing this program over and over again, that's when I discovered I was in an abusive relationship. He was a narcissist, like all the things that's when I discovered.

Oh crap. I was abused and an abuse woman and process the emotions in a healthy way was during that 18 months. And it was such a blessing because in order to be a provider and Provide a service for people. I had to have tools in my toolbox to give to them. And at that time I didn't because I hadn't gone through my own healing journey.

So what did I have to offer these women? Nothing. Zero. Okay. So it was so beneficial, not only for myself, but also for my business to grow that now I have tools and experience to give to women who come to me and also. During that time, I, realized that I'm not a divorce coach. I went from divorce coach to empowerment coach to now transformational love coach.

[00:26:54] Damaged Parents: So it's like you, as you learned what you were also working with also shifted and changed. You know, I think that's interesting because a lot of times we get this idea that we're the static people, right. That who we are right. now is who we're going to be in a year or two years. And you know, but then we look back, I mean, I don't know anyone who can look back and be like, oh Yeah.

I'm exactly like I was when I was 20 or 30 or whatever.

Right. Or 15, I don't know. That might be a little far back, but I think even a 20 year old can look back and say, oh, I'm different. And even a 30 year old. I wonder why that is why when we look forward, we think we don't stay open to that growth. Like we think it's just impossible or it's scary.

[00:27:40] Denise Kavaliauskas: The ego

[00:27:41] Damaged Parents: yeah,

[00:27:42] Denise Kavaliauskas: no sneaky. And so self sabotaging.

[00:27:47] Damaged Parents: yeah. I mean, not changes is probably sounds better than change, but even in today's world, everything changes so fast.

[00:27:59] Denise Kavaliauskas: Yeah, exactly.

[00:28:01] Damaged Parents: It's like, how do you not like, that's just, I don't know. It's one of those things right now where there's that cognitive dissonance happening, that arguing of, well, this exists and this exists, but wait only one.

No, but they both exist.

[00:28:15] Denise Kavaliauskas: It's true.

[00:28:16] Damaged Parents: Yeah.

Now, one of the things I noticed, and I think it was on your signature, is your heal, your heart expert. How did you decide to come to heal the heart? And what was it about the heart that became the focus.

[00:28:33] Denise Kavaliauskas: Good question. I think I was in a program. I was in a sales program learning. To sell my services. And she said, you have to name your call. Like you can't call it a discovery call or she said, you got to like spice it up. You got to name it something. And that's where healing your heart came in because what I've been through and what my clients have been through, they've been through broken heart heartache, heart shattering shit.

And in order for them to recover from that. They have to heal their heart. They have to heal the broken pieces of what they've been through in the past that hurt them, hurt their heart, broke their heart to move on and to have healthy relationships. So, yeah, that's when that came.

[00:29:22] Damaged Parents: That's beautiful, but I mean, just as you were speaking, I was thinking if someone doesn't heal the heart and maybe you've seen this with, with people that you coach that they end up back in similar situations because they do.

[00:29:35] Denise Kavaliauskas: Yes, it repeats. And what happens is not only does it repeat, but it's worse than the one before

If they don't learn the lessons from the past. Yeah, which is sad, it's life

[00:29:46] Damaged Parents: Right but I mean what's really interesting is that it's that scary to heal. It's so much easier to just go back to what one knows.

[00:29:54] Denise Kavaliauskas: Right

[00:29:55] Damaged Parents: versus heal because I dunno, I, jokingly talk about the, is it the server dogs at the gate, right? like going up to, they turn out to be these loving dogs as we heal emotionally, but we don't know that going into that. And it is very scary.

[00:30:11] Denise Kavaliauskas: Yeah. Yes.

[00:30:12] Damaged Parents: So I could only hope that I love that. it's a gentle way though. Heal your heart. Like that's beautiful. And you know, if someone keeps that as the goal, at least for me, that's soft and gentle, you know, I don't think of the heart as this mean horrible organ or even the emotional, or spiritual heart, depending on one's beliefs.

Right.

[00:30:34] Denise Kavaliauskas: Yeah, good. No one's ever told me that. So thank you.

[00:30:37] Damaged Parents: Oh, you're welcome. Okay. So it sounds like, cause usually ask for three tips or tools towards the end of the recording and I'm thinking maybe one tip or however many you want or something you want to say to someone who's in it, but can't see it. Or if there is even anything you can say, but just give us three tips or tools from whichever toolbox you want to give them to us.

And we'll go from there.

[00:31:04] Denise Kavaliauskas: So what's coming up for me right now. When you said that was, if you're in a relationship where you're crying more than you're laughing, when you're sad, more than you're happy, where you're trying to figure out is this going to work more than this is working. This is great. Then that's a huge indication that the relationship needs help

the thing about relationships is people think that you have to learn about the other person and in my experience, and what I've learned is that you just have to learn about you. You just have to heal you and come from a place of acceptance of you accepting other people and letting people be who they are.

And then that's how you can have healthy relationships. Right. So when you love yourself, you've forgiven yourself. You trust yourself and you have come to terms with the truth and yourself. Then it's natural for you to put boundaries down for other people. You will not treat me this way. This is what is acceptable, right?

All those things that people talk about, boundaries and this and that it will be natural for you to react this way, to have this as You know your house, as they say. Yeah. So, so that's what came up for me when you ask that

[00:32:19] Damaged Parents: Yeah. Any other tools or tips you want to share with someone who's ready to make the change? They're at that point, the all capitals ready.

[00:32:28] Denise Kavaliauskas: I would say, reach out to somebody that you can trust that has experience in this, whether that be a therapist, a counselor, a coach, a mentor, whoever who's walked that walk and is on the other side of that and can guide you to do the same thing that they've done. So there's one thing about experiencing it versus the theory of it.

And I always say, find somebody who's been there, done that. And on the other side of that, so they can show you exactly what they've done and gently walk you through it because there is a connection there of I've been there. I totally get where you're at and there's a connection to where, and I'm going to take you to the other side.

Right. I'm going to show you what I did in an easier way. No trial and error. Like I went through and guide you smoothly through this process. So that you come on the other side quicker, faster, and even more successful

[00:33:26] Damaged Parents: That's beautiful. You guys check out Denise Kavaliauskas. Did I say it right?

[00:33:34] Denise Kavaliauskas: Kavaliauskas.

[00:33:34] Damaged Parents: I got it wrong. Kaval- you know what I'm going to do. What you said, it's Denise. Kay. She does have a free gift for you. It's heal your heart mini course. You can find it, her free gift at https://EmpowerTheWomanWithin.com on her website. We'll put the links in the show notes, you can also find her on Instagram, YouTube, and Facebook. Again, all the links will be in the show notes. And I'm just super glad that you were here. Do you have any last thoughts that you want to share before we close out the show?

[00:34:03] Denise Kavaliauskas: Yeah to your audience, just be patient and kind with yourself during this process, you've been through a shit ton of stuff and it's time for you to take care of yourself and be kind and patient.

[00:34:14] Damaged Parents: That's beautiful. Thank you. so much, Denise.

[00:34:18] Denise Kavaliauskas: Thank you.

[00:34:19] Damaged Parents: We really enjoyed talking to Denise about how she said it's easy to get comfortable in disfunction with a narcissist. We especially liked how though she spoke about leaving and healing her heart. To unite with other damaged people, connect with us on Instagram. Look for damaged parents. We'll be here next week still relatively damaged see you then