Episode 97: Not Like the Other Kids
Jermaine Greaves
Jermaine Greaves is a creative powerhouse with skills in Event Planning, Marketing, and Artist Manager. He has been a promoted since 2009.He has done volunteer work for Afropunk and Brooklyn Music Festival as an Event Coordinator. From 2013 to 2017 years he has been organizing a team of 10 people to help promote the festival. Jermaine has also done Instore-Festivals, several independent artists release parties and also had hands-on in picking the talent for the Brooklyn Music Festival. His duties consist of selecting and looking through artist submissions, organizing the lineup, as well as setting time slots for the artists. He has also promoted several different clubs in New York City i.e. (Lit Lounge, Electric Warehouse, Webster Hall and multiple art galleries). Jermaine has also partnered with a clothing line brand called, "Not Like The Other Kids" (www.notliketheotherkids.com); where we give back a portion of the proceeds to kids with disabilities. He is also experienced in putting together sponsorship packages and have several different sponsors and relationships with people in the industry as well as sponsors. He has been featured on Good Morning America nbc4 telemundo and on mogul buzzfeed and other social media below is the dance video that is still going viral the video has amassed 40 million views and counting. He is a disabled activist and a CLOTHING designer.
Social media and contact information:
Www.instagram.com/jermainegreaves
Www.instagram.com/blackdisabledlivesmatters
www.notliketheotherkids.com jermaine@jermainegreaves.com
Additional information you want us to know:
https://www1.cuny.edu/mu/forum/2019/10/10/video-of-kcc-student-jermaine-greaves-has-gone-viral/
Podcast Transcript:
Damaged Parents: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Relatively Damaged Podcast by Damaged Parents were mislabeled. Misbranded miss marked people come to learn. Maybe just maybe were all a little bit damaged. Someone once told me it's safe to assume 50% of the people I meet are struggling and feel wounded in some way. I would venture to say it's closer to 100%.
Every one of us is either currently struggling or has struggled with something that made us feel less than like we aren't good enough. We aren't capable. We are relatively damaged. And that's what we're here to talk about. In my ongoing investigation of the damaged self, I want to better understand how others view their own challenges.
Maybe it's not so much about the damage, maybe it's about our perception and how we deal with it. There is a deep commitment to becoming who we are meant to be.
How do you do that? How do you find balance after a damaging experience? My hero is a damaged person. The one who faces seemingly insurmountable odds to come out on the other side whole. Those who stare directly into the face of adversity with unyielding persistence to discover their purpose. These are the people who inspire me to be more fully me.
Not in spite of my trials, but because of them, let's hear from another hero.
Today's topic includes sensitive material, which may not be appropriate for children. This podcast is provided for informational purposes only, and is not intended as advice. The opinions expressed here were strictly those of the person who gave them.
Today, we're going to talk with Jermaine Greaves. He has many roles in his life brother, son, cousin, friend, changemaker, and more. We'll talk about how he was born with cerebral palsy and believes it is just a label and how he found health and healing let's talk
Jermaine Greaves welcome to Relatively Damaged by Damaged Parents. I am so glad you're here. You have the nonprofit, Not Like the Other Kids you've gone viral with what? 10 million or more views on a dance video, because you were being yourself. I'm so glad that you have that message to share with us. And I'm so glad you're here.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:02:18] I am extremely happy here. It's just an honor to be in your space right now and share my story and, inspire some people go back and then go forward at the same time.
Damaged Parents: [00:02:29] Yeah, for sure. Because one of the things that I saw that you said was that growing up, you felt. You were different due to your disability and not because of it. Can you explain that to our listeners?
Jermaine Greaves: [00:02:44] Okay. So my disability is a cerebral palsy, also known as spastic diplegia, the medical term. So basically with my disability, my brain and my legs do not get along. And I have spasms I have different aspects of my disability. There are some mental aspects of it. There are some delays physically as well, and I always knew that I was different because I couldn't run and walk like as a kid also I'm an immigrant.
I was born and raised in Georgetown, Guyana and my first experience as a disabled person where somebody who has to use a stroller to get around, because where I grew up, I couldn't afford a wheelchair. It wasn't until 2001. When my father took me from Georgetown Guyana to New York city. And that was my first experience with accessibility.
Damaged Parents: [00:03:40] So when you got the wheelchair, it sounds like it made the world easier to get around in. It's not that you didn't have capacity to do things before, but it made it easier.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:03:54] Yes. I agree with that. I also think because of where I was, which was a foreign country and accessibility was not a thing, in the nineties or when I was growing up, accessibility was not the kind of conversation it is now. I didn't see the kind of representation I'm seeing now.
Growing up. I didn't know that there were people that were disabled living and thriving until I got to America. that's the thing, when you don't see it, you just kind of think if you're the only person going through it.
Damaged Parents: [00:04:26] Yeah. Now was that part of that mental struggle you were talking about?
Jermaine Greaves: [00:04:30] Yeah. Yeah. Part of it was because, going to school, I was a kid in the wheelchair. Growing up, I had a really difficult time making friends or just connecting with people. I knew a lot of people, but in a lot of the spaces I was in, it was very hard to kind of go in there and be myself because kids will make fun of the wheelchair or they would make jokes about me being retarded, or they would just make fun about my physical appearance
and it was just very difficult at the time. And I think at a particular point, I felt like I had to reinvent myself. Because I was around my parents a lot. I was around a lot of adults. I didn't have a lot of friends that were my age. And I was around a lot of older people who were taking care of me. At a particular point in my own young adulthood, I just decided I wanted to be on my own at 20, because I felt very stuck in this kind of.
You know, you have adults taking care of you. Most of your life. There's a certain way. They want you to do things. You don't necessarily have your own identity because people are taking care of you from the time you were born. So I had to break myself away from that, but my mom was great at making me feel independent and allowing me to go into the world and do things as an independent person.
I actually want to thank my mom because she didn't make me feel disabled. She made me feel like I'm a normal person. Like I took a bus when I was 12. I traveled train. I get a whole lot of stuff that a lot of people that are disabled to not get to do.
Damaged Parents: [00:06:08] Right. I like what you said when you said my mom made me feel like a normal person. Because my belief is that on the inside, we are very similar in that we have these feelings that exist and we see the world around us and it's just a little bit harder for you than it is for me. Right. And so if we could support each other, what are your thoughts on that?
I mean, am I picking up on that? We're very similar on the inside.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:06:43] Yeah. I mean Similar in terms of life experiences and things happening to us,Yes that can definitely be true. Things happen to everyone. I think, the difference between a normal person having to go through something and also normal is a misconception because nobody's normal. There's people that you don't know that have a disability, but you can't see it.
Right. You physically cannot see it. You don't know unless you really, really find out. So there's people that have invisible disabilities that we're unaware of. And there's people out there that you can't even tell that they're disabled. So normal is a construct. Nobody's normal and what is more and that's why I started my nonprofit, Not Like the Other Kids clothing brands, because I was beginning to get frustrated with going into the world and feeling like there isn't a space for me, and I constantly have to make the space for me.
Damaged Parents: [00:07:38] Like so was that saying that people who have more physical capacity, maybe don't make space because you don't have that physical capacity. And then because you look different, or move different because you don't really, to me.
you don't look different. You have a, you that'd be, you're physically similar legs, arms, head, body, things like that, but your body behaves differently.
So is that what you're talking about?
Jermaine Greaves: [00:08:04] But I think, a lot of it is people don't understand disability. There's not enough education on disability and you have to remember the ADA is like 30 years old. So we're dealing with like a young adult trying to educate people. And so many systems in America and across the world have not caught up to the current moment of disability.
They don't know that there's people out there living there for lives on their own and independent. They don't understand that there's people with disabilities that don't need anything and that we figured out a way to help ourselves in society. So I think once people start to learn and realize that there are people with disabilities that are living their full lives can take care of themselves and don't need your help.
That's when I believe things will change, but I, like what you said about people looking at you.
Damaged Parents: [00:08:55] Oh, I lost sound. Jermaine.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:08:57] Okay. I'm back. My headphones kind of came out, but we're back. Hi.
what I want to say to the, what your statement is, people are looking at. The outside of you, but they don't know you as the real person, people see you physically first, before they see you as a person.
And I, I think that is the um, barrier with disability. People look at your physical capacity more than they look at your mental. And I think it's really hard to be disabled and know people are always going to see me first before they see the person. And I think that is a challenge that they see me first, that they see the physical aspects of me first, before they see me, the human being.
And I think that is the challenge of being disabled.
Damaged Parents: [00:09:41] So how do we educate people beyond, I mean, we're doing it right now through the podcast, right? We're having this conversation. What do you think some of those next steps are to educating, to help people, to see the insight and not just the outside.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:09:59] I think it's about doing the work. There are so many resources now that have a, person to person, disability stories like Judy Heumann, the godmother or the mother of the disability rights movement, or um, Alice Wong of Disability and Visibility. They are leading the charge of, and even me doing Black Disabled Lives Matter.
And, the work that I'm doing is so important because it's talking about the intersectionality of race and disability and what it's like to be black and disabled. There are so many different voices out there on Instagram, and I will share some of them, @TheDisabledHippie, who is a trans, disabled uh, person And @itslololove, she's an influencer, but she does like hosting and podcasting.
There are so many disabled voices out there, but if you're not doing the work of really finding them and educating yourself on their story, then you're doing a disservice to learning about disability. There are so many books about disability narratives, like, Harriet Tubman was disabled.
Mohammed Ali. There's so many people that are disabled and living and thriving. So we have to do the educational work of finding the history.
Damaged Parents: [00:11:13] and then sharing it. So it sounds like really all of these voices that are out there. You me other people with podcasts. I know, I think TJ West has My Blurred Opinion and Sam White has Adaptive the Community. It's all these people are attempting to share that a disability doesn't mean you're not human.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:11:40] True I definitely agree with that. I think a lot of the times people look at the disability before the person and it it makes it very hard to cross over to that human element because people see the physical aspect of you. Like I said before, and it's so difficult when you're trying to show up in business or on a job interview or even a place of work and people are like, do you need any help?
And I'm like, wait, I didn't ask you
Damaged Parents: [00:12:04] Oh, yeah.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:12:07] so it's just, I think people just have to learn disability etiquette. I think disability etiquette needs a major update. Because it's not where it should be there. So many things. I feel that it needs to be updated because people don't understand the kind of things that they do that can be harmful to disabled people.
And how them not knowing is even more dangerous than they realize.
Damaged Parents: [00:12:32] Yeah.
So then it falls on to the shoulders of the people in the disabled community to educate and so that can also be difficult because then. You know it from the other, I'm trying to think for I'm trying to be devil's advocate a little bit, you know, from the quote unquote normal, which we know doesn't exist.
But from the side of the people, with the more physically capable bodies who don't look different, the ideas, but you know, I'm thinking, they're probably thinking, but I didn't ask for your opinion, I don't know. What are your thoughts?
Jermaine Greaves: [00:13:04] I think opinions are just opinions. And you don't take it on unless it relates to you in some way. I try not to listen to people that don't understand my story or understand what it's like to be me. A lot of the times, the people that write about disability are not really disabled and it's not coming from a place of them fully knowing my experience.
So I can tell you what my disability is with somebody from the outside, just researching and looking in has a very limited view of what that may be. Then they may empathize with me. They may understand some things, but they don't have the entire picture. Right. Disability creatives and people that are disabled need to own their story.
A lot of what I do is I tell you my story. I own it. I embraced it. It is a part of me, but I want you to see that because I don't want you to feel like you can tell my story for me. That's just not going to happen.
Damaged Parents: [00:14:05] Yeah,
Jermaine Greaves: [00:14:07] narrative, as they say.
And I think the more that we own our narratives and the less that people tell us what we are, we'll have a lot more control of how we should be living in our lives.
Damaged Parents: [00:14:18] Yeah, a question came up for me in that I'm wondering when you think of yourself, And in those internal conversations, I'm not thinking you think all the time I'm disabled. I can't do this. I think you're thinking you're capable in some capacity. You just have to be a little more capable. I'm not sure what, what's your thought on?
Jermaine Greaves: [00:14:45] The idea of being capable of doing something is shenanigans. I think that people have to, make the world adaptable for me to exist. I shouldn't have to like be capable of showing up somewhere to do something. I find that a lot of the times, especially if I have a job, for example, I have to constantly adapt in an environment that's unadaptable for me.
You know, like I used to work. at Macy's in retail and the amount of time that I had to step over hangers and certain things that were completely unsafe and still go to work was just not safe for me, but I needed a paycheck. So I did what I have to do, I knew that every single day I could have hurt myself or it could have been risky.
And, and that is something that we don't realize making. A lot of the spaces accessible so that we can exist so that we can go to work so that we can thrive. People are complaining about disabled people, not being able to work in existing society. The world that we are living in was not designed for us to be ourselves and to show up as for disabled human beings.
Specifically, the unemployment is so low for disabled people that people just don't know, you have immunocompromising people, you have people that get sick. Often we have to be able to make it adaptable so that we can work now that we know that the virtual reality as possible, that is a way to get us to work and to be at home.
So again, it's not that they can't make it adaptable. They're choosing not to,
Damaged Parents: [00:16:19] Yeah, that's a slippery slope, right? Like I think the thing that scares me a little bit about that is yes, the virtual world helps it make it so that I can participate more in the world and while at the same time, in some ways, taking me out of the world. And that scares me a little bit, because I think we're just as important as the next person. do you understand where I'm trying to come from?
Jermaine Greaves: [00:16:48] Yeah. I think so. Yeah. I get what you're saying. You're basically saying that work should be or, whether it's virtual or not virtual, the importance of what you do as a person, it should matter.
Damaged Parents: [00:17:01] Yeah, it really should.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:17:04] And a lot of the times, in most of our lives, not all of our lives, being disabled is an afterthought, being disabled is a burden or somebody has to help us through it. Or we have to overcome something or know. And the amount of paperwork that we do to just be disabled is caustic we have to work on so many systems that need dismantling or just a restructuring altogether, because it's not helping us to survive and thrive and live.
And because of that, are we living or we're just surviving because we have to survive I think about that all the time. Like the survival that we have to put ourselves in just to get up every day and not knowing everybody's physical limitations and the things that they have to go through just to exist as themselves is a reality I think about my own reality, but I think about other people's reality too.
It's like, For someone like me, I don't know how long it's going to take for me to get the life I envision or the kind of accessibility I want to see. And uh, doing the kind of labor work I'm doing in activism and in disability advocacy is especially when I talk about Black Disabled Lives Matter.
People always ask me, why did you do it? Why didn't you just do Disabled Lives Matter I said in me doing black disabled lives matter, other people can join the conversation and have their stories told. And also we don't talk about the African-American experience or the black experience of being disabled and what that is like and the hoops and hurdles you have to go through just to get what you need and the difference between your race and what you deserve in society.
That's why I had to start the movement and it's gained a lot of traction. I was very adamant on doing this because it was never done. And no one wanted to talk about it. No one wants to talk about disability and accessibility before me. And I'm glad I'm opening the doors to multiple conversation.
Damaged Parents: [00:19:05] Yeah, because you know that you're actually. In two groups that are underserved, if you will, right. You've got disability and you've got , the black and I mean, as a white woman, I don't know the challenges you have experienced as far as being black. Although I have disabilities, I'm not certain, I could totally understand your challenges with disabilities.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:19:29] Yeah. I haven't so many things. I mean, getting housing to eons, it took my apartment. I have now it took me like three or four years to get, and I would just be working with a lot. What I will say is this, when you're not working with people that are on your side and then supportive of what you're doing, it can be very challenging to make those next steps.
That's why it's important to have really good caseworkers case managers and people that understand where you see yourself as somebody who can self-advocate and really express what I really want. I found that it was a challenge because they had their own idea for me, but I had my own idea for myself and for me. I got tired of waiting for them to move me into my place that I got a group of my friends together.
And I started moving myself in once I got my keys, I just couldn't wait anymore. And I was just tired of hoping and thinking that these people cared and gave a damn and there've been so many things I've gone through even this year, like this year, I almost got evicted from here. And it was due to them not doing their part and, having to navigate the caseworker case manager, the different agency system.
There's a lot that needs to be done and changed and it's not just me, that's going through it. I talked to so many different people and their stories. It breaks my heart that these people are not getting the services that they need and they're not getting the kind of things that are going to help them to survive and thrive.
And, it's, it's just a challenge to see how many disabled people are constantly getting up every day. And don't know what's next for them.
Damaged Parents: [00:21:11] Yeah. And it's almost a full-time job to be disabled and advocate for yourself.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:21:16] And it's expensive also. People don't know how expensive it is, the medical costs insurance. There's so many things that people do not understand. And if you explain it to them, they're like, huh.
Damaged Parents: [00:21:28] Okay.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:21:29] So, I get head nods and the shaking all the time. Like that's how much it costs to be disabled. I'm like a yeah because at the end of the day, insurance take their sweet time and we all know how long the insurance takes.
Everyone that knows knows it takes months.
Damaged Parents: [00:21:46] Or that there's so many layers in insurance when having to advocate for yourself. It's like, there's one person here who does that. And another person there who does that, and another person there who does that and the lack of communication between departments and there needs to be, I think, a whole new rethinking.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:22:05] I wish I could raise my hand because I feel all of the words you just said,
it's a lot going. I think what we have to start doing for these agencies and systems is, I am not just a number. I am not just a case number for you. I'm a person that needs assistance and I need it now. Not when you feel like reaching out to me, we have a system that is broken. Extremely you have caseworkers doing like 40 50 cases a day of different disabled people.
And how can you give everyone the care that they need? Like everybody's need is so different.
Damaged Parents: [00:22:47] So you've got that person with 40 cases or what have you, right. Who then outsources, so that they don't have to manage who then, then you get those layers. So it makes it really hard to communicate and get what you need. And so if you're a disabled person. and you have an inability to communicate.
And I think you alluded to that earlier in the conversation, then advocating is extremely difficult and you're less likely to get what you need.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:23:15] Like I used to live in a assisted group home, and one of my roommates, his name was Tarell. He really couldn't physically do anything, but he could talk, but it wasn't like they were listening to him because he physically couldn't move. And another roommate I had his name was Fineman he just couldn't talk.
So again, you have so many. Different levels of disability and based on their mental capacity, they could be thrown around the system because people just don't care. Um,
Damaged Parents: [00:23:46] Yeah.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:23:47] I'm not saying I've been thrown around in the system, but I, I start to realize that, although I am expressing myself, There is a notion that I can get ignored or and, you know, sometimes I have to get really aggressive to get what I want and it really should not be right.
I shouldn't have to get to a level where I'm frustrated for you to finally listen to me. If I'm telling you something is wrong, then understand it something wrong. I think we don't get that people. with disabilities. And specifically those that are marginalized groups that are disabled are just having the hardest time in their life.
And the basic needs should not take months to get, I shouldn't have to fight 2, 3, 4 years to get the basic needs. And because of that, it makes it hard for you to keep going, because you're tired of fighting every single day. You gotta talk to like four or five people, make sure they're doing their jobs so that you can do what you need to do.
And then having to talk to different people every single day about your physical needs. Becomes frustrated. I think we have to get to a place of understanding, okay, this person needs our help and they need it now. And I think as case managers and case workers, and I'm gonna say this to every case worker and case manager out there, you need to understand that your job is to make sure that I am living the most comfortable life I want.
Damaged Parents: [00:25:15] Right. That you're getting to have the full human experience, whatever that looks like to you.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:25:19] Exactly.
Damaged Parents: [00:25:20] Yeah,
Jermaine Greaves: [00:25:21] And you know, every couple of a year, some documents change or some system changes or the way a disability organization is run is changed and people don't talk about the switching out of caseworkers in case managers with that happening. Because people are leaving their jobs.
People aren't, I'm not getting paid enough to do the kind of work that they have to do, so they leave. So now you've got to meet someone else and work with someone else and adjust yourself to a different person. And it is frustrating because every time someone leaves, you've got to basically start over, although you're in that organizational system and it's, that is the frustration I have.
And so many people have, we are trying to get ourselves off the ground. We're constantly having to adjust to how paperwork is done to new rules, to new regulations and regard, and based on those regulations, they may be able to help you or not. So now what you got to figure out other ways to make money and sustain yourself.
So you're not struggling. Yeah. There's unemployment, but that'll last for so long All these different processes. Um, My story into getting my job. So in August of 2019, I was unemployed and I got fired from Macy's. They furloughed me. Then in December of 2019, they tried to take my unemployment away.
I won the case, and I got my unemployment back. I was a college student at that time and trying to juggle, going to school and being unemployed that didn't work out so well. So I left school for a year, March of 20, 20. I finally got these stimulus money and, I was able to pay off my rent I was behind on rent at that time by like $3,000.
So I paid off my rent finally, like in April. I think I paid it off on my actual birthday before that. So I paid off my rent. And I was okay for now. And the 600 came in and I paid whatever. And I went back to school and I went back to school in September. I got a part-time job and I currently work at Lincoln Center, but do you see how long it took me to get a job?
It took me a whole year to get a job.
Damaged Parents: [00:27:27] Yeah.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:27:28] I couldn't just get a job right away. And, people don't understand that being disabled and not just being disabled, you have to find a job that you can actually do, and you have to find a job that will actually be accessible for you to do it's so many hurdles and hoops.
You have to jump through.
Damaged Parents: [00:27:42] Yeah. It significantly limits the choices of potential jobs. Because, I mean, my perception of use, you've got a pretty good head on your shoulder and you're probably really creative in your ability to solve problems or to even, even just bringing you to, to the table to have a discussion at that company would be a huge benefit to everyone at that table because it would be more inclusive of what society looks like.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:28:11] Like I'm working in this department right now at my job and it's the accessibility department. And every time I opened my mouth, they listen. I would say, this is the first job I've been at, where they actually listened to my needs and they try to help me. A lot of other jobs were not like that.
To be honest with you, it just, it just wasn't, my voice was not heard. They didn't give a damn about me. And it's, a tough reality to know that your disabled voice is not important in a work setting like you're in the back burner and you gotta go at work and figure it out when you show up because they don't have a space for you there.
Damaged Parents: [00:28:47] Yeah.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:28:48] That's a tough reality for a lot of us
For most
Damaged Parents: [00:28:52] of us
or like, you know, the people with the compromised immune systems that still go to work and, needing that extra time off. And if it doesn't fit in with what FMLA guidelines are, then you're looking at potentially losing that job. There's plenty of different, things that become challenging.
Or if you're someone who can't work for a long period of time, is that company willing to work around that? I don't know, there's so many things I think about when it comes
to the challenges.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:29:20] I mean, it's a lot that you go through and I have so many disabled friends and comrades that I talk to daily and the things that they tell me, if I, yeah, I'm not the only one, it sucks that there's so many people going through different levels of this kind of systematic ableism, racism and, whatever else you could think of that is just.
Mind boggling to think of this level of ableism that doesn't allow you to show up as a disabled person and be okay. And having to know that like your experience is an afterthought for most people and that they don't understand the level that's showing up for me every day is just, it's not easy.
I'm constantly tired There isn't a moment where I feel always safe and I have to always be in this, like I have to fight to get everything. So instead of feeling comfortable, you're in this response of, okay, I have to fight for this, this and this. And because nobody is there to always fight for me on a consistent basis.
I have to fight amongst all these big organizations and people who are supposed to be in my corner, but they continue to fail me.
Damaged Parents: [00:30:33] Yeah, And, and constantly being in fight mode is also stressful.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:30:39] Yeah, I have to agree, it, I remember one time I was, I was fighting so much. I had a mental breakdown and I had to like, look inward, like, wait a minute, why am I breaking down? Why am I not happy? And that's why I mentioned in my responses, I learned to meditate and pray and kind of not really fight all the time, Like kind of, if they're not going to help me just see it for what it is.
And I think it's a tough reality to face that. Like, you're going to have to help yourself most of the time, if not all of the time. Right. And it's, hard to know that reality for yourself.
Damaged Parents: [00:31:12] That is a painful reality. It has been for me too, to know where I stand. Right.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:31:18] People should really be there for us, but they're not.
Damaged Parents: [00:31:21] Or maybe they're not.
sure. And I, I know that. I know that's a frustrating thing to think about and, or maybe it's too hard for them. I don't, I don't know. I'm trying to understand.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:31:32] I would say that the second uh, the too hard part. Maybe it's too hard for them to fully commit, on a consistent basis to the level of work you know, because they themselves have things they're dealing with which I understand, but at the same time, without these parts and people, what can I do?
Damaged Parents: [00:31:51] Yeah, because to me like you have some physical challenges and they might have some emotional challenges or whatever, you would be a great support. Emotionally this is what I'm thinking of you right now. Right? Like, so my thought process is that just because you need help in one area and they need help in another and somebody else might need help in another area.
And another areas that we can all support each other, instead of me looking down on someone else, because maybe they need more help than I do. I'm not certain that's true. I think it might just be different. What are your thoughts?
Jermaine Greaves: [00:32:26] I agree with you. I think, I think the level of help is different, but I also feel that if you want to help you wouldn't make any excuses. I think no matter the challenges that will show up if you really want to help. When I, I think that's where people that are caretakers of people with disability.
They can get frustrated because it does become hard. It does become this thing that you don't know what's going on, or you can't, put yourself in their shoes, but you're seeing them frustrated. You're seeing them angry. You're seeing them go through these things that you yourself. Can't fully understand.
So it's like, what do you do as a parent? Or what do you do as a caretaker or what can you do as somebody who is assisting them on a consistent basis? No matter how I tell different people, my story, I am the only person that is going through the story that I have, or other people that are disabled can understand because they've gone through something similar, right?
Damaged Parents: [00:33:24] Yeah.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:33:25] Having a community of people that are very similar to you, or just people that you know are disabled and have their own stories of challenges and difficulties and can go to and be like, okay, I'm not alone because they're going through it too. And that can really help you feel less alone. And also like you have a community, obviously as I've gotten older, I've learned to separate people being there versus them just not knowing how to show up for me.
So it's not being upset with them, when they don't show up with understanding, that may be, you know, what they can't, or they don't know how to. So I'm no longer angry with them when they can't do something. I expect them to do it's just like, they just don't know how to, and I have to give them grace. And when they decide, when they can figure out how to show up for me, I'll be here, but they don't have to show up for me.
And it's kind of accepting. There'll be those that will show up more than you expect them to. And that's okay. I think, I think we have to kind of separate help versus nurturing versus where people are in your lives. Like how much can people do.
Damaged Parents: [00:34:33] Yeah. And it sounds like you're really accepting the people around you for who they are and where they're at and they don't have to be where you think they should be.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:34:43] Well, in the line of work that I do, I need to accept people for where they're at. It's not easy. It's challenging. work they kind of disability advocacy that I do I need to accept people for where they're at, because they may not understand everything. And also I'm constantly talking to people that don't understand the language.
So it's a, re-education on a constant basis for myself and the people.
Damaged Parents: [00:35:09] What do you mean by they don't understand the language.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:35:12] What I mean by they don't understand the language is because they themselves are not disabled. Or they themselves don't have an experience as me as a black, disabled young man or, understanding why I'm saying some of the statistics I'm staying or putting themselves in my shoes. Maybe I am the first person that they're talking to, that they have to learn these things, but they're not familiar.
It doesn't hit them because they don't have to think about what I have to think about every single day. Because sometimes you're the first person to educate a group of people that don't know a lot of the times I'm in a crowd of people that don't understand, the advocacy work that I'm doing and I have to educate them and give them resources and show them why this level of advocacy is important.
Damaged Parents: [00:36:00] Right. So it really comes back to education, education, education.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:36:06] Yeah. that's what we've been saying this entire time.
I think once a group is educated, then they know how to come in and help you but if they're not educated, they're going to be the ones that say, how can we help you? And they to themselves don't even know where to begin.
Damaged Parents: [00:36:22] or they decide, they think they know what you need, which might not be what you need. And then your voice gets smothered.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:36:30] absolutely.
Damaged Parents: [00:36:32] they've already made the decision instead of checking in with you, what would you like or how,
what would work best?
Jermaine Greaves: [00:36:38] People have to remember that before, even the ADA, a lot of us were institutionalized. They put us in homes. They put us in situations where we were just institutionalized and what we got is what we got because of people like Judy Heumann and other disabled advocates uh, way, way back in the day, way before I was born way before I was born, like Brad Lomax and all those lovely people I could not have.
What I have now, right? Because of their labor and hard work and whatever they did, I have what I consider to be as disability, as, comfortable as possible. I can live in a nice apartment. I can, thrive. But before that, that wasn't a thing. You know there are disabled historians and people that are living now that can see this new disability rights movement that is ushering in because of people like myself and so many others.
There's a new era of disability rights advocates and myself included that are ushering in this new age and speaking to our experiences as modern, disabled people
Damaged Parents: [00:37:46] yeah.
and I think it's really fascinating that were able to do that now, I think it's fantastic. And I think if anything for me, and I'm not sure for you, but COVID was super helpful in giving us a place to have that voice in the virtual environment that maybe wasn't as strong as it was prior to that. What are your thoughts?
Jermaine Greaves: [00:38:09] I agree. I'm extremely grateful for COVID because without COVID, I don't think we would have seen the uproar for George Floyd and so many other things that were happening and because we were home. We had to face a lot of reality that we didn't necessarily face before. I know for me, the reason I started Black Disabled Lives Matter is I went to a friend's protest in June of last year. I protested for the first time and I was in the back of the protest line. I realized, wait a minute, I'm here. But my accessibility needs are not met.
Damaged Parents: [00:38:43] Right.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:38:45] I was like, I gotta do something now and right now, so I started to like, Google is anything Black, Disabled Lives Matter coming up and there wasn't.
So I said, bingo, this is my chance. This is my time to shine. And I had some followers and I, knew I just went viral the year before. This is my time to do the work I always wanted to do. And bingo, Black Disabled Lives Matter was formed. But realizing that, although I went to an action and my accessibility needs were not met during a pandemic, it just really bothered me.
Damaged Parents: [00:39:20] Yeah. I know I wouldn't go to a protest because I wouldn't feel physically safe with my disability and you are so brave. Thank you for being brave and doing that and recognizing that even in that environment, People need to think about the ability for disabled to come.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:39:38] Like when I went, there was no accessibility needs. There was no anything, there was no accessible route. I was just like, I'm not safe here. I don't feel safe.
Damaged Parents: [00:39:49] Yeah.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:39:50] And, and that bothered me so much. Like man I'm here protesting for Black Lives Matter, and I'm not even safe in this crowd of maybe 10,000 people or more.
And it just bothered me.
Damaged Parents: [00:40:02] Yeah. I'm, I'm so grateful that you went, you saw, you recognized it and you did something about it because in my mind I wouldn't go. I didn't go but I didn't recognize the other side of it. So gosh, that's so fascinating.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:40:20] I mean, I did it. I was like you, I didn't go at all because like you said, I just didn't feel safe. I didn't know. For the same reasons you didn't go. but I think because I went and I saw things that were wrong and I was like, I have a background in event planning and I'm a creative. And let me use that experience and bring it here.
Damaged Parents: [00:40:42] Yeah And that's what I'm saying. I interviewed my coach early on his short story is, on the website damagedparents.com. It's the very first posting I think. And, you know, he had polio and he created things to help himself get around better and easier than other people had even created.
So what I'm thinking is, that's what I'm saying. There's more value in our minds than most people realize that you have the ability to see those downfalls. You have the ability to be creative. do you see where I'm going with that? Like
Jermaine Greaves: [00:41:18] Yeah Yes Yes
Damaged Parents: [00:41:19] don't dismiss us because we look different.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:41:22] For me, I saw the problem and it was my mission to fix the problem. Because nothing was accessible, I just was so bothered by that, that I went to this action and absolutely nothing was accessible. I couldn't believe that in 2020, there was nothing that was accessible or safe for me to go to an action
Damaged Parents: [00:41:45] yeah. And I'm just grateful that you recognize it.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:41:49] I had to, because if I felt this way, if I felt unsafe and it was my first time ever going to a protest, I know other people did too. So that was why I did what I did. I knew that I wasn't the only person that felt unsafe and it was my only time going. out. So that was me realizing, wait a minute, it's a pandemic.
Other people may want to protest and go, but they just don't feel safe to go.
Damaged Parents: [00:42:14] Yeah. Yeah, it does make it hard on so many levels. Now I do have a, an interesting question. I think it's interesting. So as, I mean, there's so many challenges that you've spoken to with, of being disabled, but can you explain to me the additional layer of challenges you believe you face because you were also black in the maybe I'm not sure if it's in the disabled community or outside, maybe because I don't. I hear a lot of the similar challenges I have had. And is that like, I'm trying to figure out if that's magnified because your black I don't know. that?
Jermaine Greaves: [00:42:52] Think I feel like some things are magnified and some things are similar. Maybe not exactly the same in terms of getting the resources that I want. I don't get it as quick as other people or maybe someone of a different race or ethnic group, or just the lack of care amongst the caseworkers. Cause most of my caseworkers I've had have been white and I don't know if they understand the urgency of my needs. Right. And because of that, it can feel like yes I'm working with these people. But I don't know if they fully grasp. The headache I have to go through and the hurdle I have to go through just to exist, then show up, then deal with this.
And a lot of the times they tell me, I don't tell them anything. I am telling you, but are you listening to me? And that's another thing that we have with these systems, with all of these larger organizations is, you know, the wide eyes, the adapts of the world, you know, these big organizations that are supposed to be.
For disability advocacy and all these agencies that are supposed to help us, but it's really harmful and you're not safe. And you have to wonder, where is your safety if you're not safe at all?
Damaged Parents: [00:44:10] Yeah, And so you have literally had white disabled friends get. In a timely manner where you've had to fight for it and it's taken longer
Jermaine Greaves: [00:44:20] yes.
Damaged Parents: [00:44:20] Oh, wow. I, I couldn't imagine. ,
Jermaine Greaves: [00:44:23] I think a lot of it is, I think a lot of it is that they themselves either throw their hands up you know, cause I've worked with my team and we tried everything we've submitted all the documents, but again, you're working with not just the care manager and care worker organization, but the bigger organization that gives out the funding that gives out the basic needs.
And because you have to go to the big organization, it just takes longer and you have to redo paperwork and you have to redo it again and again and again, and then the guidelines change and then something else changes. So by the time you're doing all that extra work, you're basically so tired. You don't want to do anything else.
Damaged Parents: [00:45:08] Yeah. Yeah. I totally hear you on that one for sure. Okay. We are at that time in the podcast where I get to ask you for three tips or tools or things, you think people could do right now to help make the world a better place or to stay hopeful.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:45:25] I have those three. The first thing is really listening. I don't think we do enough listening as people. We do a lot of responding and having an opinion, but we should listen. The second thing is understanding because when you understand what a person is going through, you can put yourself in their shoes in some way.
The third thing is being patient, especially during a global pandemic where everyone has had different things that they've had to deal with. Sometimes you have to practice patience, even when you don't want to.
Damaged Parents: [00:46:01] Yeah, isn't that the truth?
Jermaine Greaves: [00:46:03] So being patient with yourself and those around you that are going through things that you don't fully understand, being helpful to them. Being a friend, calling people up, I don't know, just being patient with people. Um, Those are the three things I would say that people need right now to make the world a better place.
Damaged Parents: [00:46:22] That's awesome. I'm so glad I got to have you on the show. Jermaine. Thank you so much. you. are definitely not like the other kids.
Jermaine Greaves: [00:46:30] Thank you. Yeah. And I'm just grateful to be here and share my story and kind of. Let people know, like the challenges you face as a black and disabled person and as a disabled person, period. And that's why I'm here. And thank you for having me. It was an honor to be here and to share my story and to hopefully inspire other people.
Damaged Parents: [00:46:51] Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Relatively Damaged by Damaged Parents. We really enjoyed talking to Jermaine about how he sees the limitations society puts on people by using labels. We especially liked when he pointed out that we are not our disabilities physical or otherwise to unite with other damaged people, connect with us on Instagram. Look for damaged parents.
We'll be here next week still relatively damaged see you then
